Impressions from Gamescom

The new Heroes games produced by Ubisoft. Please specify which game you are referring to in your post.

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Znork
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Postby Znork » Aug 24 2010, 7:18

Pitsu wrote:
Znork wrote:Trust us when we say we as fans have have real influence. The dev team was realy in to youre reactions!


Trust you? Because you are a mascot or an official whiskey taster for the cult of Alderbranch? Any better warranty that there won't be weird misscommunications?


then dont tust us! But the fackt that mez is haning around this forums and posting after its known that he works for ubi should give you a hint. And i was not asking you to trust me on any other info then they are realy listning to fans.

Im not garateeing that they will do everything you wirte that would be a wired game in the end:)

@thundertitan nha people do have real lifs and need to post when they have the time. And there was a lot of impresions:)
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Postby ThunderTitan » Aug 24 2010, 7:27

And i'm offering to rid them of the annoyances of a real life... it makes everything so much more simple.


But being on the forum says nothing, show us some results and then we'll consider that you're not here just as PR.
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Postby Banedon » Aug 24 2010, 7:56

No fair I wasn't invited :(

I think the boss fights with huge creatures is a nice touch, but no more than that. It has no impact on multiplayer, which is what I'll be looking at. Artifact sets are fine, just not important at all unless they're readily gotten. No initiative is OK too, it's something I can deal with. The initiative system, while fun and unique, can be dramatically random - e.g. whichever hero moves first and second can have a huge impact on the battle.

A convenient spellbook is great. Selecting a town and hero not so great ... towns have always been easy to select, while the obvious method to open up an inventory is to highlight the hero and press "i", so I don't get the point behind the click-and-drag.

Finally I discussed it with one of my brothers and we've both come to oppose the city / mines change. It makes turtling easy and harassing difficult. If it's possible to hold a castle easily while the main hero is off adventuring, then you lose almost nothing if someone attacks you without enough force to take the castle. In Heroes 2-3-4-5, the defender would have to hole up in the castle and concede all mines outside it; in Heroes 6 the defender would be perfectly alright. I don't see how this is a good change at all.

Concrete example - take the Heroes 5 map Mystic Vale, which is a classic 4-corners map where there's one player on each point of the compass (north, south, east, west) and lots of goodies in the middle. North is connected to east and west, etc, by means of a guarded path. Since the guards to the middle are quite strong, this guarded path becomes the focus after players have cleared out their starting areas. Clearing this path happens in the second week.

So say the player at south (Haven) makes the blind choice to go west, while the player at east (Dungeon) makes the equally blind choice to go south. The east player arrives to find south's lands unguarded, but he can't take the castle - it's a castle with static defense, Blood Furies can't cross the walls, he doesn't have enough spell points, his opponent is going to split his creatures into 7 stacks, etc. Even so he can cause major havoc to south by taking all his mines and disrupting his transport chain. The higher the difficulty, the worse this hit is going to be, especially since east will be using at least two heroes to wreak this havoc (the main hero and the transporter).

In Heroes 6 however there's nothing to gain from such a hit. East can't claim any of south's resources unless he parks his hero on a mine, which is stupid for a main hero in the second week. Parking a transport hero on a mine brings really low return (you get +1 resource for 2500g ... what?) and means as well that the supporter isn't chaining troops. East can still take obelisks, +1k experience buildings, +1 to [insert stat] buildings, etc, but east can't hurt his opponent. South has plenty of time - right until a couple of days after the start of the next week, before the new weeks' population arrives - to come back and defend his power base. Therefore south can ignore east's hero when it shows up and push on westward.

I don't see how this is a good change at all.
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Postby ThunderTitan » Aug 24 2010, 8:24

Hopefully they'll implement H4's movement points for creatures (obviously without heroless creatures, no need to go crazy), and hero chains won't work.


Maybe mines should only revert to a town owner after a few days instead of the next turn. Best of both worlds.
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Postby konfeta » Aug 24 2010, 8:48

@Banedon

Implementation is everything, and the change might be part of a greater scheme of changes. If nothing else changes in the grand scheme of things (new vulnerabilities introduced, or maybe overland spells ala the Haunt); or the castle's area of influence extends far out enough to comfortably control a critical amount of mines, this change is gonna suck.

This change doesn't make sense until we see the whole picture, and if still doesn't make sense, well, bawls.

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Postby ThunderTitan » Aug 24 2010, 8:54

And when you see the big picture it will be too late... if it's not already... that's why Blizzard took so long with SC2, changing stuff based on feedback takes a lot of time (especially to see if it works).
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Postby konfeta » Aug 24 2010, 9:09

Them's the perils of game design. As of right now, the best we can hope is that their "close cooperation with fans" means actively listening to such concerns, or even better, that they predicted this concern in the first place and have something in place to address it.

Besides, an important component of the big picture is that there is no such thing as a game developer who can accurately predict the full implications of their design decisions. This is where we, the players, come in and provide feedback based on actual experience as playing.

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Postby alma » Aug 24 2010, 9:17

ThunderTitan wrote:And when you see the big picture it will be too late... if it's not already... that's why Blizzard took so long with SC2, changing stuff based on feedback takes a lot of time (especially to see if it works).


OFF OFF
It took so long because of WoW not because of feedback. I mean, come on, the game doesn't even have chat or guild system. They removed circa 5 features from the singlepalyer demo they showed us years ago. Do you think that the user feedback was "please, don't insert guild system in the game and remove announced features from te sp gameplay!"? :) The game is going down on metacritic too, started with 9.8 meta and 9.3 userscore and now has 9.3 meta and 8.3 userscore.
I hope Blizzard is example only in variety of fractions and not in their devolution.

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Postby konfeta » Aug 24 2010, 9:24

Hmmm? Gameplay features get cut when they are proven to not work or don't add anything to the gameplay, not because of "devolution." And battle.net 2.0 is their incompetence as social engineers, not game designers.

@Alama Alright, to the PM mobile!
Last edited by konfeta on Aug 24 2010, 9:36, edited 2 times in total.

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Postby alma » Aug 24 2010, 9:34

konfeta wrote:Hmmm? Gameplay features get cut when they are proven to not work or don't add anything to the gameplay, not because of "devolution." And battle.net 2.0 is their incompetence as social engineers, not game designers.


OFF
It's hard to arguing with somebody so ignorant. If something is cut off it is of course because it wasn't good enough no chance on anything else?!?!
If something is not good it is not the fault of the game, the developer, just the social engineers (employed by the developer)?!?!
Forget my post and sorry about the OFF. Blizzard fanboys are everywhere. :devil:

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Postby alcibiades » Aug 24 2010, 12:51

ThunderTitan wrote:
alcibiades wrote:Great report ... even if I'm also majorly dissapointed about the dropped Initiative system, possibly the single greatest addition to the series from Heroes 5. :disagree:


Too bad it was implemented so sloppily.


True at that, but those were issues that could be fixed. It still seems a bit regressive to go all the way back to H3 system.

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Postby arturchix » Aug 24 2010, 12:52


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alma
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Postby alma » Aug 24 2010, 13:14



Thank you for the pictures, they are great and gives us a slice from the feeling. :)

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Kalah
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Postby Kalah » Aug 24 2010, 15:16

Can I use some of these as POTDs? :)
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Postby arturchix » Aug 24 2010, 15:47

Sure, no problem. ;)

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Postby Elder » Aug 24 2010, 19:00

Thanks, and for me it's the first time I "see" you ;)

Greetings!

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Postby Mirez » Aug 24 2010, 23:09

@arturchix

it seems you're getting famous worldwide, isn't the picture with the skeleton archer yours?
http://www.heroworld.net/album.php?id=36
treants are dendrosexual 0_o

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Postby evilp » Aug 24 2010, 23:41

Mirez wrote:@arturchix

it seems you're getting famous worldwide, isn't the picture with the skeleton archer yours?
http://www.heroworld.net/album.php?id=36

:-D because I'm here..

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Postby ecsunotos » Aug 25 2010, 2:23

arturchix> what about resources ? you know, in the screen shot there are only 4 type of resources. Some fans say that it's too few.
Have they confirm about this ?

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Postby ThunderTitan » Aug 25 2010, 8:28

Have they confirmed that they're too few?! Or that there are only 4?! Because there are only 4, it's been confirmed for a while.
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