"Impossible" size maps

The new Heroes games produced by Ubisoft. Please specify which game you are referring to in your post.

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Variol
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"Impossible" size maps

Postby Variol » Jan 3 2010, 12:29

Does anyone have the patients, or the processor to play these map sizes? I don't understand why it's sooo much slower than smaller maps, since the AI is really doing the same thing in all the different size maps?

I'm playing an Impossible map now, with 4 AI players and myself.

How long does it take on your computers for the AI turn to be finished? It's about a minute for me right now. H3 SoD takes about 1 second, or a little less.

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Postby Mirez » Jan 3 2010, 16:12

I never liked big maps in heroes 5. In heroes 3 I never had a problem walking around with 8 heroes and lots of carryslaves but in heroes 5 I prefer 1 town and 1 main hero. It's probably because of the skill system, in heroes 5 your fighting style depends a lot on how you raised your hero. Second heroes get slaughtered because they lack any kind of abilities. In heroes 3 it was easier, if you managed to learn a 2nd hero mass earth magic or mass water magic it could really help in matches.
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Postby difool » Jan 3 2010, 18:32

Preference for big maps or not (I personally like them but that's beside the point here), the real issue at hand is that Ubi never really optimized the game system for such huge maps. Not only do they tend to be unstable, crashing a lot and rendering saved games unloadable (or unsaveable!), but the AI has a lot of problems and their turns often will take 5 minutes per faction (progress bar inching all soo slowly across the screen). I'd guess that the extra space just causes the number of possible paths that the AI has to evaluate to skyrocket exponentially. Oftentimes they won't ever leave their home areas, with their heroes just sitting in one spot turn after turn in a catatonic stupor.

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Postby Grumpy Old Wizard » Jan 10 2010, 10:21

I like the "large" size best for HOMM 5.

I think that an immosible size map has to limit the number of computer opponents and has to limit the movement options the computer has. Blocked regions and such that are incrementally unlocked by the player. Computer players can be inactive until such time as the player will need to interact with them on certain map types.

Also, the numer of animated objects, especially treees, can slow a map down so the mapmaker should those sparingly on an impossible size map and use alternate decorations like terrain morphing and mixing terrain types while going lite on animated objects.

Large areas of open water can slow the AI down too. Making small islands and rock clusters to reduce pathing options can help as can breaking the ocean up into lakes. I like water to be decorated anyways.

I think impossilbe size maps are not that great for free for all maps but can work ok for a map that is more of a story map.
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Gandalf: "So do all who live to see such times but that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us."

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Postby sylvanllewelyn » Jan 12 2010, 7:30

Maps don't need to feel like walking across Central Asia but they need to be big enough to allow a player with 3 good heroes to win against someone that has 1 superhero. I have no idea what size that is though.

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Postby Variol » Jan 12 2010, 19:59

Thanks Grumpy, the large maps are much faster!

I am using the random map generator in the map editor and I noticed that with the large map, it does not seem to allow for more than 4 players, even if I select more. has anyone noticed this as well?

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Postby Grumpy Old Wizard » Jan 17 2010, 15:08

I got a new computer a few weeks ago and haven't reinstalled HOMM5 yet so I can't check that. I do recall not being terribly impressed with the random map generator.

You may wish to try a fan made random map generator. It looks like this one is projected to have another update this month. I have not used it, so don't blame me if it causes your computer to explode if you decide to try it. ;)

RTMG version 1.5 for TotE 3.1

Other than that you'll probably have more fun with the fan-made maps than the random ones.
Frodo: "I wish the ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened."

Gandalf: "So do all who live to see such times but that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us."

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Postby Variol » Jan 17 2010, 21:44

I have tried some of the "made" maps and some are pretty good. I'm playing an extra large random map right now. It's not too bad if you leave out the underground.

I'll give the above generator a try..

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Variol
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Postby Variol » Jan 18 2010, 11:03

This program only creates templates.

You create one of these, then open the map editor and select the Create Random Map option, under the Tools menu. I also found a 100mb data file, which has lots of new monsters in it.

I have not quite figured out how to incorporate these into the maps yet though.

Here are some screen shots:

Image

Image

Edit: I'm just playing one of the maps and it keeps crashing on the 3rd turn; during the enemy's turn.

Edit 2: I got through less than 2 weeks of a large map and it crashed again, during the enemy turn.

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SimonaK
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Postby SimonaK » Jan 18 2010, 22:26

This program only creates templates.


COMPLETELY FALSE! :hoo:

I suggest to you to READ the manual.

Template creating is just a small part of all works that RTMG is able to do.

Before to say anything about it.....READ the manual, please.

first reason why you crash is probably because you didn't READ the manual.

;)

I replied you on HC

http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?TID=31008&pagenumber=3

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Minnakht
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Postby Minnakht » Feb 12 2010, 13:23

I am not really sure what are you talking about, but yes, the progress bar was inching very slowly when I was playing on some hueg map and I managed to create SMALL maps with SIX players in there. Oh the slaughter...


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