Let's just amuse ourselves... (Swampy) Fortress in Heroes 5.

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EvilNed
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Let's just amuse ourselves... (Swampy) Fortress in Heroes 5.

Unread postby EvilNed » 20 Aug 2009, 22:52

If (Swampy) Fortress were to be magically added to Heroes 5, then of course it couldn't have the same unit rooster as it had in Heroes 3. Because the Hydras and Wyverns are taken!

I sat playing some Heroes 3 earlier and just got me thinking on how to adapt that town into Heroes 5. I think it looked something like this:

Level 1: Gnolls, crappy first unit. Maybe bash?

Level 2: Lizardmen, archers. Kinda boring, tho, feels like most towns have something like this.

Level 3: Dragonfly. Could work well in Heroes 5 with the initiative thing going. I imagine them having a high Initiative anyway.

Level 4: Gorgon. Gorgon as in Medusa, not Gorgon as in Bull (Where did they get that idea from anyway?). Works much like Medusa in Heroes 2, except she can also cast some spells. Attack turns people into stone.

Level 5: Basilisk. Melee attacker, average speed. Can poison people with it's bite. Pretty much a milder form of Decay. Large creature.

Level 6: Beholder, you know like the ones in Heroes 3 and 4, only this time bigger and slimier. Ranged attacker! Large creature.

And level 7? Damned if I know, I kinda gave up here. I mean, one could always go the easy way out and give them dragons (reptiles and all) but that's just boring.

Anyway, anyone got any ideas?

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Re: Let's just amuse ourselves... (Swampy) Fortress in Heroe

Unread postby Shyranis » 21 Aug 2009, 00:10

EvilNed wrote:And level 7? Damned if I know, I kinda gave up here. I mean, one could always go the easy way out and give them dragons (reptiles and all) but that's just boring.

Anyway, anyone got any ideas?
Dragon Turtles, slow but deals lots of damage and has the highest defense and hp of any level 7 creature =D

Or maybe Cockatrice. A somewhat weaker level 7 chicken lizard but with death gaze like Heroes 3 gorgons.
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Unread postby Mirez » 21 Aug 2009, 11:31

level 7 should be naga's, they were supercool in h3, and fit in the whole reptilian thing
treants are dendrosexual 0_o

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Unread postby Shyranis » 21 Aug 2009, 16:30

haloswift wrote:level 7 should be naga's, they were supercool in h3, and fit in the whole reptilian thing
Nagas are supposedly supposed to have their own entire town soon.
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Re: Let's just amuse ourselves... (Swampy) Fortress in Heroe

Unread postby Raelag84 » 22 Aug 2009, 13:48

EvilNed wrote:
And level 7? Damned if I know, I kinda gave up here. I mean, one could always go the easy way out and give them dragons (reptiles and all) but that's just boring.

Anyway, anyone got any ideas?
In real life the Aztecs worshiped a god called Qutzicalatal(sp?) who was said to be the god of wind and knowledge. It was said that is in his true form he was a feathred serpant (something like a flying snake I suppose.)

At the same time in the HMMV universe there is a silver white dragon god called Sylvia who is also a god of wind and knowledge. His offspring would be a perfect match especially since the swamp fortress was modled after mezo American culture.

I have other ideas for swampy fortress if you want to hear them.

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Unread postby Corlagon » 22 Aug 2009, 15:44

At the same time in the HMMV universe there is a silver white dragon god called Sylvia who is also a god of wind and knowledge.
No there's not.

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Unread postby Grumpy Old Wizard » 22 Aug 2009, 15:45

I like a Beholder for level 6 or 7.

I like the idea of dragon turtles but there are already too many "dragon" things in the game. They already have basilisks so I wouldn't want a cockatrice.

Shambling mound maybe? When it attacks it entangles like a treant but also does constriction damage every turn the stack is entangled. And let it entangle multiple stacks. It would be slow, have a large defence and low attack. Resistant to magic.
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Unread postby Raelag84 » 22 Aug 2009, 15:49

Corlagon wrote:
At the same time in the HMMV universe there is a silver white dragon god called Sylvia who is also a god of wind and knowledge.
No there's not.
If you doubt me you can check the Heroes of might and magic V stratgy guide. There you can find out about all the dragon gods. It says that humans used to worship the wind god before the wizards went atheist and the angels found their way into the falcon empire.

If you do not have the guide the next best thing to do is to go here, http://mightandmagic.us.ubi.com/timeline.php and scroll down to year 48 where you can at least confirm their is a dragon of air.

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Unread postby Corlagon » 22 Aug 2009, 16:04

No offence friend, I simply meant there's no dragon called Sylvia. Ylath/Sylath is its name.

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Unread postby Raelag84 » 22 Aug 2009, 16:16

Corlagon wrote:No offence friend, I simply meant there's no dragon called Sylvia. Ylath/Sylath is its name.
Oh. Sorrey for the misunderstanding. I should have checked the name. Anyways since Sylath doesn't have an order now I was thinking that the old wind dragon could go to the swamp lizards. The match is all the more perfect considering Sylath is similar to the well known Aztec god.

Since the culture of the lizards is modled after mezo-American culture I think it can sometimes be a good thing to remain true to that. That said I know we are going to have to take some cretures from the legends of other cultures because the Aztecs had few mystical animals in their folk lore.

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Unread postby cjlee » 22 Aug 2009, 17:25

Grumpy, u bring up an interesting point.

I have always found H4 Evil Eyes way too powerful. They can cast every kind of nasty spell while attacking, including very dangerous spells like 'dispel magic' and 'forgetfulness'. Even the most powerful heroes are harmed by them after several shots, beacuse the nasty spells stack up.

Yes I'd support making them a fragile, yet powerful spellcaster and ranged attacker at level 6 or whichever is the second-highest level.
Grumpy Old Wizard wrote:I like a Beholder for level 6 or 7.

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Unread postby Raelag84 » 23 Aug 2009, 02:50

As much as I miss the beholder from HMM3 I can't really see them as a unit amongst the lizard people. They are not reptilian, they are not mezo American, and as far as I know they are not swamp monsters.

Beholders are cool, but I just don't see how they fit in with the HMM3 fortress faction. I think if the reptile fortress faction were going to be made for Heroes of might and magic 6 some new units would have to created.

As a side note another question to think about is how our lizard friends could get to the HMM5 and 6 universe. One possibilty is that when their world was destroyed they took a portal out like the other HMM3 units, only diffrence is they didn't go to HMM4 universe. What does everyone think of that?

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Unread postby Corlagon » 23 Aug 2009, 11:47

One possibilty is that when their world was destroyed they took a portal out like the other HMM3 units, only diffrence is they didn't go to HMM4 universe. What does everyone think of that?
Honestly? No, no and no x500.

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Unread postby Secret_Holder » 23 Aug 2009, 12:03

I think there is only one really awesome creature, that hasn't had it's HoMM debut yet, and would fit in nicely with the fortress.

The Hydra is a creature of Greek mythology, so why not replace it with another mythological creature of Ancient Greece?
The Chimera:

Image

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Unread postby Mirez » 24 Aug 2009, 17:07

Shyranis wrote:Nagas are supposedly supposed to have their own entire town soon.
no that was a fan made concept in a contest who could make up the best town
Secret_Holder wrote: The Hydra is a creature of Greek mythology, so why not replace it with another mythological creature of Ancient Greece?
The Chimera:
that would suck, chimera's aren't reptilian
treants are dendrosexual 0_o

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Unread postby Raelag84 » 24 Aug 2009, 21:33

Ok just to get people's imaginations going I whiped up these unit ideas.

i don't expect anyone to like any of them but that's ok I just want people's imaginations to start going.

first the unupgraded

Tier number name description abilities
1. Humanoid The reptilian peoples rely on humans and other mammals as farmers, but limited amounts of land force lizard society to rid of the extras. These warriors make fine fodder for your hero to experiment with. Hero gains some experience when these troops die. In addition the hero is refunded half of the gold was used to train the dead humans.
2. Lizard man Every faction has a long range fighter, and the lizard men fill that role using blow darts. They are also useful for close range attack. Long range attacker, but suffers no melee penalty. Like all reptile creatures, this unit is cold blooded. Cold blooded means it has 2 points added to it’s initiative and moral in deserts, volcano land and jungles, are unaffected by temperate forest and grass land, and loose 2 points of moral in pine forest and tundra.
3. Laima These are naga that have forsaken the water god in favor of the wind god Sylith. It is a great loss for the Naga faction as the Laima has a poison bite that can weaken opponents. Poison attack

Is cold blooded
4 Lizard beast master The religious authority of the lizard people. They cast spells, but should they have to fight close range they have a pet Lizard to protect them. Can cast the spells haste, and lightning bolt.

Is cold blooded
5 Crocodile rider. Crocodiles would seem an odd choice of Calvary since they are so low to the ground. But they rise up enough to move and by having petite riders who know when to duck they make themselves a hard target. Long range attacks reduced by 50%.

Is cold blooded
6 Tezcatlipoca. A giant and fearsome Jaguar like creature. The Tezcatlipoca is an excellent close range fighter and despite its size it is a master of stealth and disorientation. The Tezcatlipoca can spend a turn disappearing in a cloud of smoke. On the next turn the beast can then attack an opponent, which suffers from a 30% loss of initiative due to being surprised. The target opponent must be decided on the turn of the disappearance, and if the target moves after word then the target will not be hit.
7 Quetzalcoatl These late decedents of the wind god Sylith come as a blessing to their followers and a curse to all those who do them harm. Though these great feathered serpents can fly their real power lay in their magic. Can fly, but can also cast mass haste lightning bolt and chain lightning.

Its moral and initiative increase in warm climates, but moral and initiative are normal everywhere else.

Upgrades
Tier number Name Description abilities
1 Lizard knoll Though it is the wizards that are known for combining animals to make freaks of nature the lizard people have also taken up the art. Lizard knolls are lizard people who have been made still more human like. The result is the best of what both mammals and reptiles have to offer. Hero gains some experience when these troops die. In addition the hero is refunded half of the gold was used to train the dead humans.

This unit has extra moral and initiative in tropical climates, but is not affect negatively by other climates
2 Poison master Like the wizard warriors these long range fighters use blow darts. Unlike their less trained brethren however these warriors can imbue their weapons with dark magic. The wisdom is a good general is useful for this process This unit can imbue their darts with level 1 or level 2 dark magic spell that is known by their hero. Imbuing takes half a turn, and spell power is proportional to the hero’s knowledge. This unit is cold blooded.
3 Medusa. Simply being close to this monster of a Naga can strike fear in the hearts of opponents. Worse still her poison has been replaced with a stone stare. This unit automatically lowers the moral of any enemies in an adjacent square by 1 and there is a small possibility that an enemy will turn to stone for three turns if attacked. This unit is cold blooded.
4 Beast Shaman The mages haven’t got any knew spells, but they do have increased strength to help control the leashed basilisk by their side. Same spells as Beast master, but when the Basilisk is used in close combat there is a chance an enemy will turn to stone for 3 turns.
5 Protosuchian rider The crocodiles of these riders hold themselves high off the ground allowing for faster movement. They have not lost resistance to long range attacks because they are bread to have harder scales than normal crocs and their riders have chain mail to protect them. Also these crocs are trained to bite Has 50% resistance to long range attacks. When this unit attacks an enemy the rider will stab the enemy with a spear and the croc will bite the enemy, pinning the enemy down while digesting them alive. Every turn the enemy is in the croc’s grip will cause a small amount of damage. This unit is cold blooded
6 Iron claw Tezcatlipoca These mighty beast are not the strongest of the lizard’s weapons but they certainly are the most feared. These monsters have better mastered the art of deception than their weaker kin, not to mention their front paws were cut off and replaced with iron prosthetics for increased attack power. Iron clawed Tezcatlipoca can disappear into a cloud of smoke and attack next turn. The difference is that Iron clawed toltecs reappear with 4 illusionary clones. The clones cannot do any harm, but they go through the motions of attacking when the real Toltec does so it is hard to tell which of the 5 Toltec is real.
7 Ququmatz The early descendents of Sylith. These beings come with greater spell power and greater manna than their younger brethren. The power of their wings is said to form hurricanes. Though these creatures usually fight from afar should they fight close range their attack can stun as well as kill. Enhanced by warmth and unaffected by cold. These creatures can cast mass haste, lightning bolt, and chain lightning, with stunning effect.

Can stun the enemy with a bite.

Alternative upgrade.
Tier number Name Description Abilities
1 Ocelot knoll There half ocelot have human beast who rush into battle hungry for a fight and hungry for flesh. These creatures attack twice in one turn. The Ocelot first stabs an enemy and then bites them. The bite is a fraction as damaging as the stab.
2 Lizard warrior These proud warriors are the elite amongst the lizard fighters, and as such they are awarded an advanced compound bow. These compound bows have many pullies for leverage for greater firing power. Since the sophistication of technology rivals the ballista it helps to have a knowledgeable hero around. These units suffer no melee penalty and the effect of their bow is increased with the hero’s knowledge stat like any war machine.

These units are cold blooded

3 Echidna Despite being reptiles the lizard people have always been fascinated with birds. A fascination that shows the in Echidna. The lizard people used advanced science and magic to give some Laima wings and the ability to fly. Unlike other Laimas they don’t us poison, preferring to two swords to change and strike down multiple enemies. These units can fly, attack multiple enemies and are cold-blooded.
4 Bird master These Shaman have given up on giant lizards and have taken on giant birds. This unit an eagle strike enemies and return effectively giving this unit a long range attack. The bird master has also taken on two more spells. This unit uses an animal for long range combat. The eagle strikes and returns without fear of retaliation.
This unit can cast haste, lightning bolt, cleansing and fireball.
This unit is cold blooded
5 Terror bird rider Few Calvary units are as vicious as these. The riders are fanatical lizard knolls who will gladly die for Sylath. The mounts are strong predatory land birds, who can never seem to get enough flesh. The two make a deadly combination, and since they are both warm blooded cold weather will not slow them. When this charges there is a probability that the bird will eat flesh and heal its self. The longer the charge the greater the odds.
6 Dark Tezcatlipoca These giant cats have insisted on more prosthetics than other Tezcatlipoca. They have their front legs replaced by steel legs, have had armor grafted onto their skin and head. The dark Toltecs still have some ability to cast illusions however. When they strike there is a chance the enemy will see a horrifying illusion that they run away from. When these cats strike there is a chance crows will appear and the enemy will runaway.

Melee damage reduced by 25% long range attacks reduced by 50%
7 Kukulcan No one is sure where these serpents came from for even if they look somewhat like the offspring Sylith their lack of magic aggression suggest they are not. These creatures are the lizard people’s most power melee unit and enemies hear its rattle they know to be afraid. Rattle causes the moral of enemies in adjacent squares to experience minus 1 moral.

This creature is venomous.

This creature is capable of flight.

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Unread postby Midas » 29 Aug 2009, 15:03

I agree, but the names of lvl 6&7 should be simpler, not from their real words.

Quetzaqoatl in FF8 was lightning based, so why not have Quetzaqoatl with a lightning attack? and the upgrade (possibly) casts chain lightning every attack, but runs out after a few attacks (sounds a bit overpowered though)
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Unread postby Raelag84 » 31 Aug 2009, 18:58

Midas wrote:I agree, but the names of lvl 6&7 should be simpler, not from their real words.

Quetzaqoatl in FF8 was lightning based, so why not have Quetzaqoatl with a lightning attack? and the upgrade (possibly) casts chain lightning every attack, but runs out after a few attacks (sounds a bit overpowered though)
both suggestions work for me. I will just have to think of new names. If you have any other ideas let us know.

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Unread postby Midas » 01 Sep 2009, 11:59

Something like a... "serpent fiend" :P

Queazaqoatl could be like a Pao-Kai, lightning attack. To know more, Play (Final Fantasy 8)
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Unread postby Salisa » 30 Sep 2009, 22:57

LOL when i read this Godzilla came to my mind.. I know but he is a mythical creature!!


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