ToTE Barbarian fighting help

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lazarus
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ToTE Barbarian fighting help

Postby lazarus » Jun 10 2009, 18:47

Ok, so i've learn to fight with all the various races. They each have their own strengths etc.

But Barbarians just suck imo. :(

They have no offensive magic and very little range strength. They have plenty of melee strength but you occur lots of casualties doing that which makes army numbers drop. Attacking a castle with no magic or range is extremely difficult.

Can anyone point me in the direction of a fighting guide for Barbarians or give me some hints about Barbarian tactics?

Should you concentrate on WarCries or just the general attack bonus part of the skillwheel?

warmachine skills for castle attacking?


Barbarian = wimps :|

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Postby Elias_Maluco » Jun 10 2009, 19:40

They do have an offensive "magic": horde anger, and is actually really powerful.

About sieges, if Im not mistaken, Cyclops can attack walls, which helps a bit.

For me, the biggest problem of the orcs is the lack of anything really effective against magic. A powerful dark mage can own any orc with puppet, frenzy and such. Theres nothing you can do do prevent it or stop this spells.

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Postby Mirez » Jun 11 2009, 13:09

Elias_Maluco wrote:For me, the biggest problem of the orcs is the lack of anything really effective against magic. A powerful dark mage can own any orc with puppet, frenzy and such. Theres nothing you can do do prevent it or stop this spells.

try expert shatter dark magic, with corrupt and detain dark

orcs are pretty OP, but not as spell casters, they are might only.
Try expert leadership with battle elation, also expert attack with Retribution, your units' bloodrage will be growing fast and they will be attacking a lot
treants are dendrosexual 0_o

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Postby AngelEyes » Jun 11 2009, 15:08

haloswift wrote:try expert shatter dark magic, with corrupt and detain dark


Good idea. You might also want to consider going after Magic Resistance (Luck) and Distract (Shout).

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Postby lazarus » Jun 11 2009, 15:49

haloswift wrote:
Elias_Maluco wrote:For me, the biggest problem of the orcs is the lack of anything really effective against magic. A powerful dark mage can own any orc with puppet, frenzy and such. Theres nothing you can do do prevent it or stop this spells.

try expert shatter dark magic, with corrupt and detain dark

orcs are pretty OP, but not as spell casters, they are might only.
Try expert leadership with battle elation, also expert attack with Retribution, your units' bloodrage will be growing fast and they will be attacking a lot

So just go with moral and melee skill improvements to max their brute force abilities?

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Postby lazarus » Jun 11 2009, 23:45

Barbarians just suck

what's the point of playing this expansion at all when as barbarians you are playing checkers when every other race is playing chess.

worthless

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Postby parcaleste » Jun 12 2009, 6:03

Seems you didn't play enough than, eh? :up:

Barbarians rock, Bloodrage is SICK, boosting your troops to insane levels, although there is a smaaall problem... they do not have a Resurrection/Regeneration spell, which makes it really difficult (let not say impossible) to defeat HUGE armies without any lost of troops (custom made maps). Especially level 7 troops like Dragons and ****.

No good... :disagree:



... but they still are one of the most fun factions to play with. B-)

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Postby Elias_Maluco » Jun 12 2009, 14:51

haloswift wrote:try expert shatter dark magic, with corrupt and detain dark


Yeah, I know. I just hate the idea of wasting one skill slot with a skill which sole purpose is to cripple one specific skill that the enemy might (or not) have.

IMHO, all the orcs neeed to be really on par with the other races is some good anti-magic warcriess. Shatter sucks, for the reason I said above: is unfair when you have to waste your skill slots just to cripple some enemy skill because otherwise you got no defense against it. If only the orcs had some dispel or magical-immunity-like warcry. Or even if one of the shamans had cleansing. That it would be fair.

That said, they are still one of my favorite races.

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Postby parcaleste » Jun 12 2009, 15:52

You can use the Goblin Witch-Doctors to "block" the enemy hero from casting spells. ;)

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Postby AngelEyes » Jun 12 2009, 17:07

parcaleste wrote:You can use the Goblin Witch-Doctors to "block" the enemy hero from casting spells. ;)


That's a good point, I completely forgot about that one. Yeah, it's not a surefire tactic, but it's great when it works. :D

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Postby Elias_Maluco » Jun 12 2009, 21:55

AngelEyes wrote:
parcaleste wrote:You can use the Goblin Witch-Doctors to "block" the enemy hero from casting spells. ;)


That's a good point, I completely forgot about that one. Yeah, it's not a surefire tactic, but it's great when it works. :D


Me too, I always go with goblin-trappers. I have to try that in the future.

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Postby Banedon » Jun 13 2009, 11:09

Elias_Maluco wrote:IMHO, all the orcs neeed to be really on par with the other races is some good anti-magic warcriess. Shatter sucks, for the reason I said above: is unfair when you have to waste your skill slots just to cripple some enemy skill because otherwise you got no defense against it. If only the orcs had some dispel or magical-immunity-like warcry. Or even if one of the shamans had cleansing. That it would be fair.


Do you play against Academy / Necropolis / Dungeon without going for Magic Resistance + Protection or similar skills?
I'm a hypocrite because I suggested that all life is sacred and should not be wasted without good reason.

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Postby Mirez » Jun 13 2009, 16:58

last time I played strongehold I managed to amass a lot of goblin trappers, and when I put them all on 1 stack I discovered that it always works 100%
does anybody know the system behind the trapper's succes rate? I think every goblin adds a certain % and the more the higher the chance it works

if this is so it might be a good idea to amass a lot of witch-doctors and stop the enemy from casting
treants are dendrosexual 0_o

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Postby Asheera » Jun 13 2009, 18:22

Check the fan manual it explains the chance they have
No matter how powerful one becomes, there is always someone stronger. That's why I'm in a constant pursuit of power, so I can be prepared when an enemy tries to take advantage of me.

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Postby Mirez » Jun 15 2009, 12:57

Asheera wrote:Check the fan manual it explains the chance they have

checked out the fan manual, it said nothing about the goblin's special ability, atleast I couldn't find it
treants are dendrosexual 0_o

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Postby Asheera » Jun 15 2009, 16:41

Check the Advanced Game Mechanics -> Goblins' treacherous activities section (page 327 of fan manual 3.1)
No matter how powerful one becomes, there is always someone stronger. That's why I'm in a constant pursuit of power, so I can be prepared when an enemy tries to take advantage of me.

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also quite frustrated with unabalanced barbarians

Postby cjlee » Aug 2 2009, 15:23

I won't say these guys are wimps. But from experience they are less fun playing because you don't have much strategic depth/ tactical flexibility.

Barbarians are very predictable for these reasons:

1) Due to lack of range, magic and flying, barbarians need war machines and untamed cyclopses to siege castles. Expect these with a 100% probability against human players.

2) Since they lack antimagic, they always need goblin witch doctors against human players.

Against the computer, witch doctors seem to have little effect in numbers under 500. Even 1200 doctors don't seem to do much.

3) Barbarian fighting tactics is always straightforward - charge nonstop. Even when it looks dumb, do it, because you want to trigger morale boosts.

4) No barbarian player will ever fail to get Leadership and Luck.

5) Shatter... x magic is quite ineffective and wastes skill slots. Better to charge straight in. If you have boosted your leadership and luck, you can inflict fatal damage before most spellcasters can react. 1 puppet master or confusion can't stop your hordes, unless you are dumb enough to fight only with orc chieftains and cyclopses.

I personally think Barbarian vs Dwarf is the most amusing... super aggressive vs super defensive. Haven't had much experience with this.

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Postby Mirez » Aug 2 2009, 16:39

with the no-range-penalty artifact you can have loads of fun shooting your goblins ;)
treants are dendrosexual 0_o

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Re: also quite frustrated with unabalanced barbarians

Postby Banedon » Aug 3 2009, 23:55

cjlee wrote:3) Barbarian fighting tactics is always straightforward - charge nonstop. Even when it looks dumb, do it, because you want to trigger morale boosts.


You don't have to charge to trigger morale boosts, you just have to move - and you can move to a nearby square for that.

cjlee wrote:5) Shatter... x magic is quite ineffective and wastes skill slots. Better to charge straight in. If you have boosted your leadership and luck, you can inflict fatal damage before most spellcasters can react. 1 puppet master or confusion can't stop your hordes, unless you are dumb enough to fight only with orc chieftains and cyclopses.


1 Puppet Master or Confusion can't stop you, but Mass Slow + Mass Confusion + Puppet Master (in that order) can. Be warned! Dark Magic is deadly against Stronghold!
I'm a hypocrite because I suggested that all life is sacred and should not be wasted without good reason.

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Re: also quite frustrated with unabalanced barbarians

Postby cjlee » Aug 9 2009, 3:14

Banedon wrote:
You don't have to charge to trigger morale boosts, you just have to move - and you can move to a nearby square for that.

1 Puppet Master or Confusion can't stop you, but Mass Slow + Mass Confusion + Puppet Master (in that order) can. Be warned! Dark Magic is deadly against Stronghold!


As I mentioned, barbarian players often have to do 'dumb' things such as rushing into the middle of the battlefield to trigger increased initiative events.

Even when you're not sure if you can get to your enemies, you have to charge, because a triggered move up the ATB will let you hit them next turn. Moving sideways is defensive and wastes an ATB move up. Unless you're all that desperate to protect your only shooter, which is a level 2. Playing barbarian and not engaging the enemy ASAP is letting them blast you with spells or shooters.

I agree that 'mass x+ puppet master" is dangerous. That's why it is very frustrating that your only tactic is to rush forward and demolish the enemy before the spells wipe you out.

I've played the computer campaigns several times on different difficulties, and I can tell you Kujin's Shatter Dark is unreliable.


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