Heroes 6 wishlist (draft)

The new Heroes games produced by Ubisoft. Please specify which game you are referring to in your post.

Moderator: Moderators

User avatar
Qurqirish Dragon
Genie
Genie
Posts: 1011
Joined: 06 Jan 2006
Location: Flying the skies of Ohlam

Re: Town Portal spell wish

Postby Qurqirish Dragon » May 10 2009, 2:16

How about two different town portal spells. One like H3 and the other would be just like H5. Depending on map design, either spell could be enabled for the player to use.

Town Portal - Regular like H5, sends you to the nearest owned town.

Town Warp - Advanced, pre-determined by map design (not hero level).
Can be used in replace of Town Portal for certain huge maps.
The spell allows selection of any owned town for a destination.
In other words, back to the H2 method:
level 4 spell: town gate - teleport to nearest (owned) town
level 5 spell: town portal - teleport to any (owned) town

----

FWIW, here are my main desires for a new Heroes:
1) Towns should have development as a cross between H2, H4, and H5:
from H2: some creatures have upgrades, others don't.
from H4: building some creatures should preclude building others
from H5: The size of the town in general should be a factor in what can be built - not just a prerequisite building.

2) Heroes should be a cross of the H3 and H4 styles.
From H3: heroes have general traits based on class, but individual characteristics as well. Each faction's heroes should have a might-oriented class and a magic-oriented one.
From H4: Skill choices can alter the class, allowing heroes to change some traits based on the player choices- making them more adaptable on unknown maps.

3) Magic should be a cross between the H4 and H5 systems:
Each faction should have a "native" spell school and related schools. A hero can only learn the level 5 spells of his own faction, and the level 4 spells of his own or related factions. No spells from the opposing faction. The spells themselves, however, would fall into more general categories (elemental is one idea, the H4 system is another), and spells from all categories can appear in a faction's list.
For example, fire spells could have defensive spells such as fire shield that are not usable by offensive factions, while the defensive factions cannot use armageddon, even if the appropriate level of skill in fire magic is known.

I won't bother listing the standard "bug-free" or "easy-editor" litany here, because I think that has been said enough already. Image

User avatar
Alamar
Golem
Golem
Posts: 605
Joined: 06 Jan 2006

Re: Town Portal spell wish

Postby Alamar » May 11 2009, 14:58

FWIW, here are my main desires for a new Heroes:
from H5: The size of the town in general should be a factor in what can be built - not just a prerequisite building.
While I agree with the majority of what you say I'd like to expand on this point. I'd like a map maker to have the ability to let you [as a player] "ignore" certain prereqs [like town level] when building certain buildings.

For example I liked maps from the old days where you could capture a town that only had certain buildings in it ... for example a town that would only have buildable dragon towers OR a town where you could only build a mage guild.

User avatar
ThunderTitan
Perpetual Poster
Perpetual Poster
Posts: 23266
Joined: 06 Jan 2006
Location: Now/here
Contact:

Postby ThunderTitan » May 12 2009, 6:18

I don't get people who assume that the graphic designers for a game are also in charge of AI programming, writing, and creating a workable map editor. ;)
Ever heard of having a budget?
That's not an excuse... they can give more money to the dept in charge of AI/writing/etc. than to graphics.
Reading comprehension fail from you? :disagree:
Disclaimer: May contain sarcasm!
I have never faked a sarcasm in my entire life. - ???
"With ABC deleting dynamite gags from cartoons, do you find that your children are using explosives less frequently?" — Mark LoPresti

Alt-0128: €

Image

User avatar
Avonu
Round Table Hero
Round Table Hero
Posts: 3854
Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Location: City of Griffin
Contact:

Postby Avonu » May 12 2009, 13:17

My wishlist:

I. Developers have to play all previous HoMM games with all addons (including Heroes Chronicles and WoG) - maybe then they understood what new HoMM needs. Oh, and use all map editors too.

1. King of the hill - all AI players against human - and should be different then alliances.

2. Choose AI player difficult and I mean for each player separete - not only general easy/medium/hard.

3. Artifacts guarded by neutral creatures (like in H2) or pickable only if hero have some skills.

4. Caravans should be from beginning.

5. Flagable windmills, watermills, magic gardens etc. It's not fun to vistit them weekly.

6. Campain like in H2 - when you can choose and betray sites and also have to choose what mission is important - like help allies or slay enemies.

7. Lots of game map - not only few like in H5. And return of map desing like "Broken Alliance" from H2. And it would be nice to see one map which is continent /land of new HoMM game (something like Enroth map in H2).

8. Return of heroes advanced classes - maybe not so much like in HIV. And also return of might and magic heroes in each castle.

9. Spells - for singleplayer return of good, old Town Portal and Dimension Door. Also I think we have magic schools only avaible for certain races/classes.
And more spells then in HV - even if some will be used once-two times in game.

10. Skill/stats system - get rid of this system from previous games where skills and stats were fix at map start. So if I for example save game before hero level up and next load game - I will have different skill to choose. It can be unbalanced in singleplayer but choosing skills and abilities in H5 was a pain - building your here only to be screwed out with one bad luck level up skill choice.

11. General options for turn on/off depending if we playing single or multiplayer game - example power of Town Portal (all cities/nearest city).
I think in case of multiplayer we also should have some options to ban certain artifacts/spells/monsters/heroes/etc.

12. Neutral creature dwellings - for all neutrals even for the most powerful. Also their guards should increase with each weak for certain % (however lower then neutral stacks %).

13. Different spell formulas for heroes and creatures. So high level mage can defeat enemies with his spells not just with uber-army.

14. Return of ghost from H1-2 and hunted/elemental guarded mines.

15. Return of Ultimate Artifacts and maybe drop of Graal. HIV have IMO the best digging artifacts system.

16. Different playing style for each nation - like in HV where barbarians have rage and were completely different from other races.

17. Only some creatures should have upgrades - but two (alternatives like in HV). And no re-training from one alt to another - you have to choose upgrade wise.

18. And enought :P of bad spelling.


II Eye-candies
1. Each city with unique desing - not just central pillar and building around it. Look at HoMM2-3 - different city - different building places.
And it would be nice if town ground - maybe even sky - will be deppended on map terrian (like in HIV).

2. Different models for male/female/another race heroes. On map too. How long we have too look on female wizards with beard in Heroes games? :P

3. Life in cities - add some citizents there - like in H1 or on HV game installation screens.

4. Different battleground desing when we fight in creature banks. So they not look the same like terrian battleground.

5. Back to functional user interface - not just as minimal as you need to play game. And no more lack of "wait button" or other shortcuts. Everything should has access from UI too.


III New features (from other games):

1. Add one more map level - maybe sky plains or undersee? Not a must be but would be nice.

2. Heroespedia - maybe remember Dune II (not mention about Civilization or X-COM) where you have button with access to units and buildings description (and short story about them)?

3. I will be plaesed to see terrian changes as in Disciples but it is not must be.

4. Paying for army maintance (once per week?) - so player have to choose - larger but weaker army (low levels creatures) or lesser but power army (high levels). And peasants with their tax income will be more important then. Oh, mages should pay more for army then knights - after all they should have powerful spells to help them.

5. If heroes stays in once place (or sleep there) for few turns, he should have some bonus to defence in battle.


And two more thing:
1. Hire someone who canl write at least decent storyline and dialogs.
2. Give manual which would not be few pages short and will have in it game mechanisms described. Just look on Ubisoft HV manual and Fan Manual. See the difference?
It would be nice if manual have some in-game story - like in H1 for example (Letters of Morglin Ironfist). Map where new game take place also would be nice.
Last edited by Avonu on May 12 2009, 15:25, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
Kristo
Round Table Knight
Round Table Knight
Posts: 1548
Joined: 23 Nov 2005
Location: Chicago, IL

Postby Kristo » May 12 2009, 14:18

That's a pretty good wishlist there. I agree with most of your points. The only one that sticks out at me is this one:
10. Skill/stats system - get rid of this system from previous games where skills and stats were fix at map start. So if I for example save game before hero level up and next load game - I will have different skill to choose. It can be unbalanced in singleplayer but choosing skills and abilities in H5 was a pain - building your here only to be screwed out with one bad luck level up skill choice.
What you're noticing is that the seed for the random number generator is part of the save game file, presumably to prevent save-loading to get new skills or a new battle outcome. I think the real problem, though, is having certain skills or combinations of skills that are better than others. If it's critical to get a particular skill at each level up, then they shouldn't be offered randomly. Simply offer the whole list and you can pick what you want. However, that would be a radical change from all of the prior Heroes games.

I think it'd be far better to balance the skills against each other so that you will always have something useful to choose.
Peace. Love. Penguin.

User avatar
Darmani
Blood Fury
Blood Fury
Posts: 473
Joined: 06 Jan 2006
Location: San Francisco, CA

Postby Darmani » May 14 2009, 1:25

Of course, having the random number seed be saved still lets the system be gamed with constant reloading; it just makes it more annoying. For example, if you reload a save right before the battle that yielded the level-up, then fight it again slightly differently (well, in a way that uses the RNG a different number of times), you'll be offered different skills. Or if you have another hero do something else that uses the RNG and then fight the battle as before, you'll still be offered separate skills.

I think having all the skills offered would be a great idea. It would also make it easier to balance the skills. If your uber-hardcore playtesters develop standard cookie-cutter builds for types of Heroes they use over and over in a variety of situations, then there are balance issues. You want to make the skills so that, put them against a different opponent on a different map, and suddenly they'll be agonizing about every skill choice.

Of course, one could always use that technique to develop the balancing, and then make the offerings random in the final game...

User avatar
Alamar
Golem
Golem
Posts: 605
Joined: 06 Jan 2006

Postby Alamar » May 14 2009, 16:45

My wishlist:

<SNIP>

10. Skill/stats system - get rid of this system from previous games where skills and stats were fix at map start. So if I for example save game before hero level up and next load game - I will have different skill to choose. It can be unbalanced in singleplayer but choosing skills and abilities in H5 was a pain - building your here only to be screwed out with one bad luck level up skill choice.
I would have to disagree with this. I [personally] think that it's lame to reload battles so you can get exactly what skills/stats you'd like. On the other hand, with H5's skill system, it is somewhat unfair if you need an "ultimate" or certain skill combo from a map that you may not be able to get through no fault of your own.

A good compromise may be:

-- Allow a map object to allow you to unlearn or exchange certain skills.
-- Allow the map creator / editor to overrule the skill choices offered by normal HoMM in some manner.
-- Allow a larger variety of skill up choices ... Perhaps 2-3 options to increase known skill with 2-3 options to get new abilities with 2-3 options to get new skills ... With potentially 6-9 options you can hopefully get something to hit that you need :)

User avatar
Avonu
Round Table Hero
Round Table Hero
Posts: 3854
Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Location: City of Griffin
Contact:

Postby Avonu » May 14 2009, 17:01

On the other hand, with H5's skill system, it is somewhat unfair if you need an "ultimate" or certain skill combo from a map that you may not be able to get through no fault of your own.
Yes, this is main reason why I don't like that system anymore. Carefully plaining and choosing skills and abilities and one or two screwed level ups (and I have times when I have chosse same abilities and skills two, three times at row) and all your plining is worth nothing.
-- Allow a map object to allow you to unlearn or exchange certain skills.
Not so good choice - we have Memory Mentor in ToE but he is not always on map. Especially on random generated maps.
-- Allow a larger variety of skill up choices ... Perhaps 2-3 options to increase known skill with 2-3 options to get new abilities with 2-3 options to get new skills ... With potentially 6-9 options you can hopefully get something to hit that you need :)
It will be the same - only take longer to screw up but it will came at certain moment

Personaly I think that H2-5 skill choice system is outdated. We have many games in that 10 or more years which have IMO better skill choise systems.
Lets start from Disciples or Warlords Battlecry for example and finish on King's Bounty: the Legend or even Diablo II.

User avatar
Alamar
Golem
Golem
Posts: 605
Joined: 06 Jan 2006

Postby Alamar » May 14 2009, 18:41

On the other hand, with H5's skill system, it is somewhat unfair if you need an "ultimate" or certain skill combo from a map that you may not be able to get through no fault of your own.
Yes, this is main reason why I don't like that system anymore. Carefully plaining and choosing skills and abilities and one or two screwed level ups (and I have times when I have chosse same abilities and skills two, three times at row) and all your plining is worth nothing.

I agree that on certain maps you really need XYZ and it's a pain if you can't get it.

-- Allow a map object to allow you to unlearn or exchange certain skills.
Not so good choice - we have Memory Mentor in ToE but he is not always on map. Especially on random generated maps.

My point is if the map designer decides that you really need XYZ to complete the map that you should give them whatever tools they need to make sure that happens seamlessly. On the other hand if the map is designed where any "well built hero" should suffice and you don't get the exact right combo you're looking for then [in my mind] that's a gray area.

If we still have "ultimate" skills I don't necessarily have a problem with it if you just can't get the "ultimate" per se [unless the map requires it!] Of course I would tend to argue against having "ultimate" skills as they're implemented. If anything I would only have them give you minor bonuses that are of roughly the same power as the "buffs" that certain starting players get.

-- Allow a larger variety of skill up choices ... Perhaps 2-3 options to increase known skill with 2-3 options to get new abilities with 2-3 options to get new skills ... With potentially 6-9 options you can hopefully get something to hit that you need :)
It will be the same - only take longer to screw up but it will came at certain moment

Personaly I think that H2-5 skill choice system is outdated. We have many games in that 10 or more years which have IMO better skill choise systems.
Lets start from Disciples or Warlords Battlecry for example and finish on King's Bounty: the Legend or even Diablo II.
I disagree with your assertion that at each level up if you're allowed 3 choices to improve existing skills, 3 choices for new abilities, and 3 choices for new skills that you'll "often" not be able to get the skills that you want. I think that with an H5-like skills system this won't be much of a problem if you're just going for an Ultimate skill. You have to be smart about what skills / abilities / etc. are taken when but I think it would be plenty dooable.


I won't argue that there are plenty of other RPGs that have vastly different ways to build a hero. I won't even argue that HoMM skill system is old-style. I personally would like tweaks to the current system vs. overhauls. Personally I don't want all heroes looking and feeling the same. I actually like that randomness.

YMMV ....

User avatar
ThunderTitan
Perpetual Poster
Perpetual Poster
Posts: 23266
Joined: 06 Jan 2006
Location: Now/here
Contact:

Postby ThunderTitan » May 14 2009, 19:19

Personaly I think that H2-5 skill choice system is outdated. We have many games in that 10 or more years which have IMO better skill choise systems.
or even Diablo II.

You think skill trees are not outdated?!
Disclaimer: May contain sarcasm!
I have never faked a sarcasm in my entire life. - ???
"With ABC deleting dynamite gags from cartoons, do you find that your children are using explosives less frequently?" — Mark LoPresti

Alt-0128: €

Image

User avatar
Alamar
Golem
Golem
Posts: 605
Joined: 06 Jan 2006

Postby Alamar » May 14 2009, 22:54

While I'm not sure if this would work how about this for a new skill system:

-- You are still offered random skills & abilities

-- The percentages of what skills & abilities are offered would depend on what sorts of things your hero does. For example if you have a garrison hero that never moves the odds they are offered logistics would approach near zero. If you have a hero that is a "fetcher" type who moves a lot but never enters combat the odds that you'd see "Offense" would drop a lot but you might get good odds of an ability like "treasure finder" or whatever may increase gold or chest quality or whatever. If you have a hero that's in combat a lot but "only casts haste" then the odds of you getting Light Magic would go up. If you never buy a war machine the odds of getting the skill would reduce quickly ....

I'd have serious doubts if the above is workable in a reasonable manner but it would seem like a cool idea if you could pull it off.

User avatar
Kristo
Round Table Knight
Round Table Knight
Posts: 1548
Joined: 23 Nov 2005
Location: Chicago, IL

Postby Kristo » May 15 2009, 1:19

That idea is easily implemented if and only if you have a way to map every skill to a specific action in the game. Then you can start with your base percentages for getting a skill (determined as usual by faction and might/magic alignment) and bias them every time you take one of the actions. A Barbarian errand boy becomes highly likely to get Logistics, for example. Or maybe a Cleric who runs around with Skeletons in his army gains a small chance to learn Necromancy. It's an interesting idea.

OTOH, this might lead to less variety in the skills you're offered if you always play with the same basic strategy. Your heroes always do the same kinds of things, so they're offered some skills more often than others. Thoughts?
Peace. Love. Penguin.

Sir Dabbler
Leprechaun
Leprechaun
Posts: 10
Joined: 17 Jan 2009

Postby Sir Dabbler » May 15 2009, 13:57

Alamar; Interesting idea. I like it. Your Character than becomes more in tune with what they do and how they react. HMM.

Silver Ray
Leprechaun
Leprechaun
Posts: 9
Joined: 17 May 2009

Postby Silver Ray » May 17 2009, 18:22

Wishes? Easy!

1) 2 kind of heroes for each race - Might & Magic.
1a) They must have different "skill trees".
1b) Few "advanced classes" is not a bad idea.
1c) "Skill trees" must be really interesting and personalized. "Super skills" (like Knites' "Unstoppable Charge" in HoMM 5) are a good idea, but they have to be of any use! It is hard to get them, yes. But do they give you any help? NO!
2) Skills must have some real use. I suggest personal skills for each class.
3) Each race should have their own magic.
3a) More spells for each school.
3b) And magic tower should give only "native" spells.
4) Creatures must be more... How can I say... Personal? They ought to have personality.
4a) 2 kind of heroes - 2 kind of creature upgrades. One more Might type, other Magic type.
5) It is a very good idea - possibility to create your own heroes.
6) Easy-to-use Map Editor.
7) Possibility to play even on old computers.

P.S. - Sorry for my english.

User avatar
Belchior
Peasant
Peasant
Posts: 57
Joined: 17 May 2009
Location: Finland
Contact:

Postby Belchior » May 17 2009, 18:47

1.Stat point should let choose uself (attack/defence/spellpower/knowledge)
this lets u custom your hero better :) every lvl u can add 1 point one of them.

2.change to make your own hero and 5 starting stat points to use for it and one skill for choosing, depends of faction.

User avatar
Kristo
Round Table Knight
Round Table Knight
Posts: 1548
Joined: 23 Nov 2005
Location: Chicago, IL

Postby Kristo » May 17 2009, 20:57

4) Creatures must be more... How can I say... Personal? They ought to have personality.
Can you give an example of what this means? How do the current creatures lack personality? I'm not criticizing this idea, I'm just trying to understand it.
1.Stat point should let choose uself (attack/defence/spellpower/knowledge)
this lets u custom your hero better :) every lvl u can add 1 point one of them.

2.change to make your own hero and 5 starting stat points to use for it and one skill for choosing, depends of faction.
Why bother limiting your choices by faction? If you're going to do that, you might as well go all the way and make heroes a blank slate that you can customize however you want. It'd be full-up Diablo 2 style stat and skill choices at every level up.

I think such a system would put the AI players at a disadvantage. Heroes is already difficult enough for a computer to play. It won't take long for players to figure out how to munchkin the best heroes possible. The AI already needs all the help it can get. I don't think we should handicap it further.
Peace. Love. Penguin.

Silver Ray
Leprechaun
Leprechaun
Posts: 9
Joined: 17 May 2009

Postby Silver Ray » May 18 2009, 12:21

Kristo, it's hard to explain. But some creatures just seem "out of place". Say, Wight from necropolis. Or Hydra from dungeon. Or Rakshasa Rani from academy. Also creatures' abilities need work... And heroes' "skill tree".
Also about heroes' specialties. Inferno? Summoning. Necropolis? Necromancy. Logical? Yes. But Heaven - Retaliation? Cannot see logic here.

P. S. Maybe they should make new race in Heroes? Felines, that is. Good idea, no? Well, that is a joke, but, as they say, "there is a bit of truth in every joke".
Кошки захватят вселенную!! Да будет так!!!

User avatar
Kristo
Round Table Knight
Round Table Knight
Posts: 1548
Joined: 23 Nov 2005
Location: Chicago, IL

Postby Kristo » May 18 2009, 13:50

Kristo, it's hard to explain. But some creatures just seem "out of place". Say, Wight from necropolis. Or Hydra from dungeon. Or Rakshasa Rani from academy.
Wikipedia's definition of Wight says, "More recently, the word has been used within the fantasy genre to describe undead or wraith-like creatures: corpses with a part of their decayed soul still in residence." Sure sounds like it fits in an undead faction to me. Hydras have been led by Warlocks in every game except Heroes 3. If you've been around since Heroes 1, it's not unexpected at all. And the Wizard's faction has had creatures from Hindu mythology since Heroes 3. So really, none of those creatures are out of place. You can make arguments about whether the town lineups themselves make sense, but given the history of the series, I don't see a better faction for any of those creatures.
Also creatures' abilities need work... And heroes' "skill tree".
Again, this is a wishlist thread. Please don't say something is broken without explaining why and/or offering suggestions on how to fix it.
Peace. Love. Penguin.

User avatar
klir
Leprechaun
Leprechaun
Posts: 6
Joined: 16 Jun 2006
Location: Malmö, Sweden

klir

Postby klir » May 18 2009, 15:22

Heard a lot of good suggestions, but none about the music (dosent mean i've read all the post:P).I'd like the possibility to chose music so it dosen't change everytime U enter a town or a new landscape. Love the music so it's annoying to never hear the end of the songs.

User avatar
Macakong
Leprechaun
Leprechaun
Posts: 1
Joined: 18 May 2009

Postby Macakong » May 18 2009, 16:15

i have been reading your comments and suggestions, its hardly impossible to realize that most of veteran homm saga players are a bit disappointed with one of its episodes or another. i personally found little appealing in the last homm5 but i still reckon its value as a good game.

my favourite titles are the old and original homm and its secuel homm2. i really think that homm2 was just perfect.

from there and on balance was a bit amiss.. in homm3 armies and production of resources lead you to end in no time with so large numbers of creatures under your command that i felt awed. sure it was epic magnitude, but i think it was lost what a single old dragon could win. and homm5 heroes became too powerful, you could just bring along a couple of them and beat powerful armies.

and still one of the elements i like more about the homm saga is that each episode is way different from the other.. so i would like to see something new, not a revamp of the older ones.

still, one of the elements that was a constant in homm, and that was altered enough to be alienated, was the atmosphere. imo kings bounty preserved that atmosphere much better than homm5.

in that line i would suggest developers to look back and capture the essence of the concept art of previous homm. it was just that deep level of detailed environment that made the game look so good that even today you can really enjoy a homm2 .. and i really suspect that wont be the case of homm5 in 10 years. it was put much effort in the development of "graphics" that something was .. lost.

now apart from that atmosphere stuff, which is some subjective matter..

- i would really love to be able to play old maximus, rebecca, gem, etc.. the ones that made me love the saga. they went missing .. not asking for resurrection, but what about some little stuff (like a mini campaign or something alike) with them around?

- and please an easier interface for the map editor

- may be a better diplomacy system (just thinking in age of wonders system) to spice up single and multiplayer maps.. like forging alliances (and breaking them of course), establishing trade among cities.. etc

so.. thanks to celestial heavens for letting us rant here, and if some of our thoughts reach the developing team of homm6 here is my thanks also for you guys. we have high hopes .. so will be a bit hard to please us all. must be a hard work to make a game when the homm saga is just probably the best turn based strategy one ever to be!!


Return to “Heroes V-VI”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 1 guest