Heroes of Might & Magic III: Horn of the Abyss

Mods and development for mods. Including WoG & Equilibris subforums.

Moderator: Moderators

m0sh
Leprechaun
Leprechaun
Posts: 22
Joined: 17 Jun 2009

Postby m0sh » Sep 29 2009, 1:51

^^^ nice

but it seems that HOTA is far from being done...too bad for us...

I really hope Forge won't make it to 3.59... we don't need tanks its heroes !

User avatar
Deadguy118
Assassin
Assassin
Posts: 294
Joined: 03 Jun 2006
Location: Somewhere

Postby Deadguy118 » Sep 29 2009, 4:15

m0sh wrote:^^^ nice

but it seems that HOTA is far from being done...too bad for us...

I really hope Forge won't make it to 3.59... we don't need tanks its heroes !

Someone doesn't know that the Might and Magic series has sci-fi in addition to Fantasy elements.

Don't worry, WoG 3.59 will probably not come out for another century or so, and even when it does come out the only complete town will be the bastion.
Back from the dead? Maybe.

User avatar
GreatEmerald
CH Staff
CH Staff
Posts: 3329
Joined: 24 Jul 2009
Location: Netherlands

Postby GreatEmerald » Sep 29 2009, 12:23

Deadguy118 wrote:Someone doesn't know that the Might and Magic series has sci-fi in addition to Fantasy elements.


Indeed. Forge would be awesome to have (provided that we have good animated units, though)! Heroes are very bland without the Ancient Equipment!

User avatar
Midas
Peasant
Peasant
Posts: 95
Joined: 29 Aug 2009
Location: Atlantis

Postby Midas » Sep 29 2009, 12:54

The "Sci-fi" began even in the first one, doesn't it?
About the "Alien Crash Land" Kind of thing,

Cathedral!
Kronwerk still not visible tho....
All I see is Blackness...
Oh, My hood is down... (Acolyte)

m0sh
Leprechaun
Leprechaun
Posts: 22
Joined: 17 Jun 2009

Postby m0sh » Sep 29 2009, 20:43

since when alien use tanks?

sorry but i still find it poor
even if it was before...in heroes 3 there wasn't any of that crap (sorry but i really feel its awkward just my opinion)

User avatar
Deadguy118
Assassin
Assassin
Posts: 294
Joined: 03 Jun 2006
Location: Somewhere

Postby Deadguy118 » Sep 29 2009, 22:22

m0sh wrote:since when alien use tanks?

sorry but i still find it poor
even if it was before...in heroes 3 there wasn't any of that crap (sorry but i really feel its awkward just my opinion)

It's not aliens, it's the necromancers of Deyja using high tech equipment. The world of Might and Magic has had plenty of sci-fi elements and the Forge town was an attempt to integrate the evil ending of Might and Magic VII with Heroes III.

Of course, people like you complained, NWC caved in, and instead we got the Conflux, everyone's favorite overpowered generic elemental town. But, as I said before, don't worry: The chances of the WoG team ever getting that far are extremely slim, after all, it's only taken them 5 years to get this far without completing WoG 3.59.

In fact, assuming that any of these new town projects ever get finished (none of them have so far), I will consider it an achievement in and of itself.
Back from the dead? Maybe.

User avatar
GreatEmerald
CH Staff
CH Staff
Posts: 3329
Joined: 24 Jul 2009
Location: Netherlands

Postby GreatEmerald » Sep 30 2009, 13:29

Midas wrote:The "Sci-fi" began even in the first one, doesn't it?
About the "Alien Crash Land" Kind of thing,

Yeap, it was in Might and Magic I and those elements are in every single MM game after it as well. I guess that HoMM1 being a King's Bounty clone didn't include those elements since they're not in KB, but why HoMM2 didn't have them is a mystery.

User avatar
Midas
Peasant
Peasant
Posts: 95
Joined: 29 Aug 2009
Location: Atlantis

Postby Midas » Sep 30 2009, 17:07

Does it have to do with the storyline?
All I see is Blackness...

Oh, My hood is down... (Acolyte)

User avatar
Corlagon
Archangel
Archangel
Posts: 1421
Joined: 03 Sep 2007
Location: HC/CH

Postby Corlagon » Sep 30 2009, 17:20

Sure does. You'd be hard-pressed to find a Might and Magic game without some sci-fi (9 and, sort of, 4 are the only ones with nothing overt).

If someone tells you that sci-fi has no place in Might and Magic then they're either Ubisoft or they simply haven't a clue what they're talking about. (and sometimes both.)

User avatar
GreatEmerald
CH Staff
CH Staff
Posts: 3329
Joined: 24 Jul 2009
Location: Netherlands

Postby GreatEmerald » Sep 30 2009, 17:59

Well said Corlagon :) And yes, sci-fi is the background of MM. Everything takes place in the future, just that all the civilisations have fallen to barbarianism once again. In fact, I tried to explain some of that in my MM History video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1EtyslKxvY4

m0sh
Leprechaun
Leprechaun
Posts: 22
Joined: 17 Jun 2009

Postby m0sh » Oct 2 2009, 14:25

well tbh , im not a fan of RPG , therefore i didn't play MM

call me a noob or whatever, this is a HOMM forum.

I still don't see the necromancers of Deyja attacking with tanks do anything good for this game...
unless you create a modern terrain environment , still...

User avatar
GreatEmerald
CH Staff
CH Staff
Posts: 3329
Joined: 24 Jul 2009
Location: Netherlands

Postby GreatEmerald » Oct 2 2009, 15:23

Yeap, that should be done, like the Lincoln/Oracle places.
And yes, I found the idea pretty odd at fist as well, but if the graphics implementation is good (hint: MM6's autobots) it could come very nicely. Also, a less aggressive approach would be to create other things like new objects and artifacts that would be from the Time of Wonders.

User avatar
Corlagon
Archangel
Archangel
Posts: 1421
Joined: 03 Sep 2007
Location: HC/CH

Postby Corlagon » Oct 2 2009, 19:56

", still" nothing. Sci-fi was ingrained in the series from day one. If it gets taken out (which it has been) it loses part of its identity.

It'd be like removing the clone subplot from the Metal Gear series all of a sudden. What you're left with is nothing more than some superficial secret agent missions.

m0sh
Leprechaun
Leprechaun
Posts: 22
Joined: 17 Jun 2009

Postby m0sh » Oct 2 2009, 21:14

if that's true then we would have seen this in heroes 1, 2, 3 or 4

but we haven't...

just adding this without changing a lot of terrain will just make it odd

User avatar
Corlagon
Archangel
Archangel
Posts: 1421
Joined: 03 Sep 2007
Location: HC/CH

Postby Corlagon » Oct 2 2009, 22:17

We almost did, that's the entire point. And there were no plans to recreate the game - the concept art shows the Forge was based in rough terrain.

I'm not sure you fully understand. The Forge isn't some fan-invented abomination which doesn't belong in the game. It was created by the people who made the series in the first place.

User avatar
obelisk v2.0
Leprechaun
Leprechaun
Posts: 31
Joined: 11 Feb 2008
Location: Latvia

Postby obelisk v2.0 » Oct 3 2009, 8:31

I may not be very familiar with MM history, not having played MM I through V, but I know some of where the sci-fi comes in. And I still say it has no place in the game. After all, just think - the moment you get your hands on blasters, nothing can stand up to you. It's just too damn unbalanced. And making it balanced in gameplay terms means that the so-called hi-tech things are lame. After all, a blaster of any kind should be capable of taking pretty much anything out with one shot, which, I remind again, would be extremely unbalanced in gameplay terms.
I'm no Ubisoft supporter, I can tell you that much, but I still think that sci-fi and fantasy are two things best not mixed together...

User avatar
GreatEmerald
CH Staff
CH Staff
Posts: 3329
Joined: 24 Jul 2009
Location: Netherlands

Postby GreatEmerald » Oct 3 2009, 8:59

obelisk v2.0 wrote:I may not be very familiar with MM history, not having played MM I through V

That's your problem ;) If you played MM2, you would see that hi-tech weapons there are barely better than normal weapons, and often even worse than those are. That's because while hi-tech objects have the technology, the old objects have magic, so it all balances out. If you create a magical shield against arrows, it works against bullets just as well. So the balance would and should be kept, anything hi-tech would never be overpowering in strategy games. Sure, they can be of the stronger variety (for example, all sci-fi artifacts could be of the Relic kind), but they won't be stronger than your normal, magical items.

And if you think the genres don't mix, go play Unreal I. Or even Unreal Tournament I for that matter. The elements balance out very neatly.

User avatar
Corlagon
Archangel
Archangel
Posts: 1421
Joined: 03 Sep 2007
Location: HC/CH

Postby Corlagon » Oct 3 2009, 10:36

Not to mention that the entire Forge faction, its troops and heroes were meant to be strictly campaign only (like the Conflux practically is now when you look at ToH). It wasn't being forced into the game - you could add it to your maps or pretend it never existed at will.

To go on a tangent - logically, based on their strength in MM6 and 7, the Kreegans should kick the collective behind of every single faction in the game. Yet the Inferno is repeatedly a contender for most useless town. So blasters needn't necessarily serve as the be-all and end-all of combat.

User avatar
Qurqirish Dragon
Genie
Genie
Posts: 1011
Joined: 06 Jan 2006
Location: Flying the skies of Ohlam

Postby Qurqirish Dragon » Oct 3 2009, 12:38

Corlagon wrote:I'm not sure you fully understand. The Forge isn't some fan-invented abomination which doesn't belong in the game. It was created by the people who made the series in the first place.


I remember when the Forge debate was all in fashion. I think I was one of the few people that had an opion that both sides of the argument didn't like :-D
One side said it was great, the other said it was awful. Me: it was appropriate, but not quite in line with the MM games. There were several units with guns / advanced projectile weapons. I argued that the MM games didn't have these, but did have "blasters" and other energy-based based weapons. Thus, the units should have had those. The anti-forge people saw me as pro-forge, and said I was making things worse. The pro-forge people though I was bashing on it. MAde for some interesting debate at the time.

I just go by the old political adage- in both sides hate you, you must be doing something right :D

obelisk v2.0 wrote:After all, a blaster of any kind should be capable of taking pretty much anything out with one shot, which, I remind again, would be extremely unbalanced in gameplay terms.


Not really. Even if you discount the way blasters worked in the MM games, not every shot will hit, and as with any other weapon, a hit doesn't mean something vital was hurt. Also, there have been creatures with instant-kill / deathblow attacks in HoMM games from the start (H1 and H2 genies, H3 dread knights, H4 sea monsters, H5 wraiths), so this is just another way to explain that ability.

For that matter, in sci-fi, only the "phaser set to kill" on star trek was an instant kill. Every other time I have seen hand-held energy weapons, that wasn't the case. Yes, you COULD get a kill on one shot, but you can get that with a slingshot also.
Last edited by Qurqirish Dragon on Oct 3 2009, 12:46, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
GreatEmerald
CH Staff
CH Staff
Posts: 3329
Joined: 24 Jul 2009
Location: Netherlands

Postby GreatEmerald » Oct 3 2009, 13:25

Qurqirish Dragon wrote:it was appropriate, but not quite in line with the MM games. There were several units with guns / advanced projectile weapons. I argued that the MM games didn't have these, but did have "blasters" and other energy-based based weapons. Thus, the units should have had those.

Yes, I agree. And I have to watch Star Trek sometime :\

Qurqirish Dragon wrote:I just go by the old political adage- in both sides hate you, you must be doing something right :D

That's exactly what Judge Gray said before his death :D

Qurqirish Dragon wrote:H3 dread knights

You meant H3 gorgons, right? ;)


Return to “Modcrafting Guild”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest