Mass Effect

Because we play other games too.

Moderators: Moderators, Celestial Heavens Staff

User avatar
ThunderTitan
Perpetual Poster
Perpetual Poster
Posts: 23266
Joined: 06 Jan 2006
Location: Now/here
Contact:

Postby ThunderTitan » Mar 7 2010, 11:43

So is ME2 even more watered down RPG-wise then ME1?!
Disclaimer: May contain sarcasm!
I have never faked a sarcasm in my entire life. - ???
"With ABC deleting dynamite gags from cartoons, do you find that your children are using explosives less frequently?" — Mark LoPresti

Alt-0128: €

Image

User avatar
Suleman
Demon
Demon
Posts: 323
Joined: 24 Dec 2005

Postby Suleman » Mar 8 2010, 16:15

Depends on how you define an RPG. ME2 has very little bizarre number-crunching, and no useless fiddling with enormous skill trees and huge numbers of items. Instead, it's all distilled into a very visceral shooter-RPG with an incredible story and fascinating characters. What is essential about RPGs? Is it the endless math and amassing of items, power and wealth, or is it the deep and engaging experience with character interaction and choices that affect the gameplay?
"Yes, but what about David Beckham and the magic mushroom?"

I'm baaaaaack!

User avatar
ThunderTitan
Perpetual Poster
Perpetual Poster
Posts: 23266
Joined: 06 Jan 2006
Location: Now/here
Contact:

Postby ThunderTitan » Mar 8 2010, 18:18

Suleman wrote:or is it the deep and engaging experience with character interaction and choices that affect the gameplay?


See, i just call those GOOD GAMES...

Meh, i guess i just miss turn based RPG's... now everything is turning into some sort of real time shooter with a skill system.
Disclaimer: May contain sarcasm!

I have never faked a sarcasm in my entire life. - ???
"With ABC deleting dynamite gags from cartoons, do you find that your children are using explosives less frequently?" — Mark LoPresti

Alt-0128: €


Image

User avatar
Humakt
Swordsman
Swordsman
Posts: 582
Joined: 06 Jan 2006

Postby Humakt » Mar 8 2010, 18:20

Suleman wrote:What is essential about RPGs? Is it the endless math and amassing of items, power and wealth, or is it the deep and engaging experience with character interaction and choices that affect the gameplay?


Latter of course. Otherwise you might as well call Diablo a RPG, which it definitely isn't.
Thundermaps
"Death must be impartial. I must sever my ties, lest I shield my kin."

User avatar
ThunderTitan
Perpetual Poster
Perpetual Poster
Posts: 23266
Joined: 06 Jan 2006
Location: Now/here
Contact:

Postby ThunderTitan » Mar 8 2010, 18:27

And by the latter you can call any game that puts story first a RPG... game genres are determined by gameplay mechanics, and ME is getting closer and closer to a shooter from that perspective. Why not just call it that if that's what your aiming for?!
Disclaimer: May contain sarcasm!

I have never faked a sarcasm in my entire life. - ???
"With ABC deleting dynamite gags from cartoons, do you find that your children are using explosives less frequently?" — Mark LoPresti

Alt-0128: €


Image

User avatar
Humakt
Swordsman
Swordsman
Posts: 582
Joined: 06 Jan 2006

Postby Humakt » Mar 8 2010, 18:57

ThunderTitan wrote:And by the latter you can call any game that puts story first a RPG... game genres are determined by gameplay mechanics, and ME is getting closer and closer to a shooter from that perspective. Why not just call it that if that's what your aiming for?!


No one said anything about story, I quoted Suleiman: "deep and engaging experience with character interaction and choices that affect the gameplay?"
Adventure games, while very story-oriented, tend to be very limited in choices. How can you call game a shooter if lot less than half of the game-time is shooting?

Also, I thought turnbased-rpgs had practically died out years before even Baldur's Gate emerged. Frankly, only turn-based rpg's I've ever played were excellent Betrayal At Krondor, King of Dragon Pass and Fallout 1+2 (which had turn-based combat) and all those were published over ten years ago.
Thundermaps

"Death must be impartial. I must sever my ties, lest I shield my kin."

User avatar
ThunderTitan
Perpetual Poster
Perpetual Poster
Posts: 23266
Joined: 06 Jan 2006
Location: Now/here
Contact:

Postby ThunderTitan » Mar 8 2010, 19:12

Adventure games, while very story-oriented, tend to be very limited in choices.


The number of choices is rather immaterial, if they affect gameplay it counts, just like a crappy TBS is still a TBS...

How can you call game a shooter if lot less than half of the game-time is shooting?


How can you call HoMM3 a TBS when half teh time in the campaign you spend reading text?!


Also, I thought turnbased-rpgs had practically died out years before even Baldur's Gate emerged. Frankly, only turn-based rpg's I've ever played were excellent Betrayal At Krondor, King of Dragon Pass and Fallout 1+2 (which had turn-based combat) and all those were published over ten years ago.


Exactly... it's been a long time. But i also meant stuff like Final Fantasy 8, where once it was your turn in battle the game stopped until you issued the command etc. It was no Jagged Alliance, but close enough (And JA was '99).
Disclaimer: May contain sarcasm!

I have never faked a sarcasm in my entire life. - ???
"With ABC deleting dynamite gags from cartoons, do you find that your children are using explosives less frequently?" — Mark LoPresti

Alt-0128: €


Image

User avatar
TheUndeadKing
Swordsman
Swordsman
Posts: 588
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Contact:

Postby TheUndeadKing » Mar 9 2010, 0:14

ThunderTitan wrote: Meh, i guess i just miss turn based RPG's... now everything is turning into some sort of real time shooter with a skill system.

A good (read: perfect) RPG/Shooter hybrid is very difficult to pull off, especially when the combat is real-time. Either it ends up being a shooter with RPG elements or a RPG with weird, flawed combat mechanics. Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines was so close (yet so far) to achieving it. It was a great game, nevertheless.
"I saw the angel in the marble and carved until I set him free..." - Michelangelo

User avatar
ThunderTitan
Perpetual Poster
Perpetual Poster
Posts: 23266
Joined: 06 Jan 2006
Location: Now/here
Contact:

Postby ThunderTitan » Mar 9 2010, 8:55

Bloodlines wasn't exactly a shooter as it lacked any shooting...
Disclaimer: May contain sarcasm!

I have never faked a sarcasm in my entire life. - ???
"With ABC deleting dynamite gags from cartoons, do you find that your children are using explosives less frequently?" — Mark LoPresti

Alt-0128: €


Image

User avatar
TheUndeadKing
Swordsman
Swordsman
Posts: 588
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Contact:

Postby TheUndeadKing » Mar 9 2010, 21:15

Nah, it was just bad implementation. I think they meant to give players an option to play it as a shooter, but were too afraid that the game would stray away from its RPG roots. (Hence the lack of shooting)
"I saw the angel in the marble and carved until I set him free..." - Michelangelo

User avatar
ThunderTitan
Perpetual Poster
Perpetual Poster
Posts: 23266
Joined: 06 Jan 2006
Location: Now/here
Contact:

Postby ThunderTitan » Mar 10 2010, 10:32

Frankly i found the game breaking bugs more annoying.


And to clarify: RPG elements in a shooter is a good thing... the reverse is not.

I don't mind streamlining the rules to make it easier to understand as long as the gameplay feeling is kept... ME felt too much like a shooter for a RPG. Still fun, but not a direction i'd like RPG's to go in, especially since other devs won't be able to make up for it with other things like Bioware can...
Disclaimer: May contain sarcasm!

I have never faked a sarcasm in my entire life. - ???
"With ABC deleting dynamite gags from cartoons, do you find that your children are using explosives less frequently?" — Mark LoPresti

Alt-0128: €


Image

User avatar
TheUndeadKing
Swordsman
Swordsman
Posts: 588
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Contact:

Postby TheUndeadKing » Mar 10 2010, 19:50

Bloodlines was clearly rushed like H4. And Troika Games shut down like NWC, so most of the problems never got fixed properly.

Your point about ME feeling much like a shooter is true though, and I fully agree that no other company can offer the same level of quality and commitment as Bioware when it comes to these kind of hybrid RPG games. We can only hope it doesn't get dumbed down any further.
"I saw the angel in the marble and carved until I set him free..." - Michelangelo

User avatar
ThunderTitan
Perpetual Poster
Perpetual Poster
Posts: 23266
Joined: 06 Jan 2006
Location: Now/here
Contact:

Postby ThunderTitan » Mar 10 2010, 21:08

Let's hope.
Disclaimer: May contain sarcasm!

I have never faked a sarcasm in my entire life. - ???
"With ABC deleting dynamite gags from cartoons, do you find that your children are using explosives less frequently?" — Mark LoPresti

Alt-0128: €


Image

User avatar
TheUndeadKing
Swordsman
Swordsman
Posts: 588
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Contact:

Postby TheUndeadKing » Mar 10 2010, 22:56

Image
"I saw the angel in the marble and carved until I set him free..." - Michelangelo

User avatar
ThunderTitan
Perpetual Poster
Perpetual Poster
Posts: 23266
Joined: 06 Jan 2006
Location: Now/here
Contact:

Postby ThunderTitan » Mar 11 2010, 8:47

Now i'm also hoping there will be no bum rape either.
Disclaimer: May contain sarcasm!

I have never faked a sarcasm in my entire life. - ???
"With ABC deleting dynamite gags from cartoons, do you find that your children are using explosives less frequently?" — Mark LoPresti

Alt-0128: €


Image

User avatar
TheUndeadKing
Swordsman
Swordsman
Posts: 588
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Contact:

Postby TheUndeadKing » Mar 11 2010, 22:01

Image
"I saw the angel in the marble and carved until I set him free..." - Michelangelo

User avatar
Lord13
Demon
Demon
Posts: 311
Joined: 16 Jan 2006
Location: Around Harmondale

Postby Lord13 » Mar 19 2010, 21:36

I finished today Mass Effect 2, and it was a great experience!
I haven't feel like this with a new game for years, I just wish
was a little longer. Anyway, I haven't played ME 1, so anyone
knows if is so good as the 2nd part(mostly at gameplay,story,
characters' backgrounds and atmosphere)?
Every man dies...
Every beast dies...
Only heroes live forever!

User avatar
Humakt
Swordsman
Swordsman
Posts: 582
Joined: 06 Jan 2006

Postby Humakt » Mar 20 2010, 10:03

Lord13 wrote:I finished today Mass Effect 2, and it was a great experience!
I haven't feel like this with a new game for years, I just wish
was a little longer. Anyway, I haven't played ME 1, so anyone
knows if is so good as the 2nd part(mostly at gameplay,story,
characters' backgrounds and atmosphere)?


Like I said, Mass Effect 2 is one of the best games ever. First one isn't quite as good but is still epic and I've played it thrice already.

Also, you may want to check Dragon Age: Origins as well, it was the best game last year and is quite good at categories you mentioned. Gameplay is very reminiscent of Baldur's Gate and Neverwinter Nights but more honed and just better. Better buy it for PC though, since that version offers most challenge and requires most tactics.
Thundermaps

"Death must be impartial. I must sever my ties, lest I shield my kin."

User avatar
Lord13
Demon
Demon
Posts: 311
Joined: 16 Jan 2006
Location: Around Harmondale

Postby Lord13 » Mar 20 2010, 12:27

I've finished DA:Origins before few months, and it was an epic
game indeed, but the gameplay was not deep imo and had many
disadvantages(class balance, interface, repeated at the end).
Btw, I have a feeling that is from the same creators (DA and ME),
right? Never checked the credits but seems like that to me. ME 2
has more quality imo at every aspect (story,characters and most
important gameplay). I've read also that is a trilogy after all, so
at 2011 we will see ME 3, can't really wait! :D (sorry if I repeat
smth, didn't read all the pages of this topic :P).
Every man dies...

Every beast dies...

Only heroes live forever!

User avatar
Orfinn
Round Table Hero
Round Table Hero
Posts: 3325
Joined: 06 Jan 2006
Location: Norway

Postby Orfinn » Mar 22 2010, 17:31

Theres this DA Awakening expansion pack, just released. Might be old news. But seriously, I havent seen a real expansion pack to a game in years (except H5). I havent brought this one but it looks promising.

http://dragonage.bioware.com/


Return to “Hall of the Heretics”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests