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[T]osHiro
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Postby [T]osHiro » Jan 17 2007, 14:46

I've played this custom-made map for Warcraft III Frozen Throne before. What I feel that the map is very imbalance.

As an example, a one on one match. When a hero gets killed, he or she will will lose gold and have to wait certain amount of time before respawning which depends on the level of the hero. On the other hand, the killer gets some gold, and gain massive experience. The point where I said the game is imbalance is this, because if a hero get killed several times, he'll be losing more gold, and spending more time waiting to be respawn, which slows down his leveling while the killer levels up quick and gains more gold after each kill. So by the time when you're killed 4-5 times, your chance of winning the game will decrease dramatically because you'll be facing a higher-level opponent with well equiped artifacts. You'll hardly stand a chance while your opponent enjoys killing you off again and again.

So to simplify things, the most crucial point of the game is at the bginning, IMO. Because at that point, everyone is even. But when you got killed, you MUST watch out because each time your opponent kills you, he'll be pushing harder and harder till he or she becomes... well, UNSTOPABLE!! And he's OWNING!!!
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Postby Banedon » Jan 17 2007, 15:09

Is there something wrong with that? If you don't have that then the early-game heroes would get wiped out by the array of late-game heroes out there (eg. Rylai Crestfall would die horrible deaths to Naix because she's unable to build up sufficiently large an early-game advantage).

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Postby [T]osHiro » Jan 18 2007, 7:08

Could you elaborate that? I don't think I understand it. The probelm with that map is your opponent OWNING you several times will the scales, and practically the match is decided. There no chance to fight back, he'll keep OWNING your head.
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Postby Banedon » Jan 18 2007, 7:37

I mean, sometimes things like this has to happen. Take Rylai Crestfall. She's an intelligence heroes with two nukes and a strong early-game. Take Naix. He's an agility (so he's strength, but look at the stat growth) hero whose purpose is to dominate late-game. Naix is pathetic early, strong later. If Rylai doesn't exploit her advantage and keep Naix down as much as possible, then she will lose late-game. If this mechanism to allow her that advantage did not exist, she would be an unviable pick and late-game heroes would dominate, because the only way Rylai can possibly beat Naix late-game is to be significantly more farmed than him.

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Postby [T]osHiro » Jan 19 2007, 14:38

Well, that might work for that case, but DotA has approx 150 heroes. No matter what hero we use, it doesn't justify that that mechanism is reasonable. I mean we do make mistakes, sometimes we got foolish to get killed. But the point is too many mistakes and you'll seal a humiliating defeat, because IT DOESN'T PROVIDE CHANCE TO FIGHT BACK. Okay, let's say you're the hero that has been pawned. What will you do to get even with your opponent? Continuing farming might not work, because you opponent would let you on a 1 vs 1 basis. I'm sure by the time he pawned you sevral times, gives him enough cash to buy a Boots of Travel, which conviniently teleports him to you, to ensure that you won't have a chance to level up or get gold. Even if you farm on neutral creeps, they don't spawn that quick to give you enough gold or exp.

So that probably leaves to taking on the hero alone, but do you think you stand a chance against a mightier opponent?

What I wish is that, at least nerf down the penalty, like minus the pawnage gold, or cancel the gold reduction when a hero dies.

I thought that Defense of the Ancients, a game that allows strategic planning to take the enemy's base or to hold on to yours, but so far I've seen people focusing on pawning heroes, and that further press my point that the game is imbalance, IMO. Plus, the game stress on pushing your troops forward. IMO, that narrows down the strategy since it'll be plain defending and attacking. There's no ambush because 'backdoor' is banned, so the strategy applies on organizing your heroes (if more than 1 player in a team). Not much fun in that, IMO
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Postby Banedon » Jan 19 2007, 16:50

DotA has a total of 82 heroes right now. I would say you get a chance to fight back. You can afford about two or perhaps even more deaths before the monetary gap gets too large to overcome for a player of about the same skill.

You can get even with your opponent even if he's winning. You may, for example, have a late-game hero (that's why don't give up with Naix against Rylai unless Rylai has a huge advantage), or perhaps he starts making strategical errors (like hunting you all the time - you can hunt neutrals as well [you're unlikely to clear them all before they respawn], or else ask your allies for help). You can overturn a losing game, and I can direct you to replays showing that.

I certainly find DotA a really fun game. Some people focus on hunting heroes - that's their problem, not yours. SmokingBarrel plays DotA with me and he's clearly the better player. But while I go hunting heroes he stays at the lane all the time and farms, with the end result that he always has the far superior creep score and items. I'd also argue against the game stressing on pushing your troops forward - no, the game stresses keeping your troops by your tower as much as possible, except in a pushing scenario. Ambushing is very common; you don't ambush your opponent's base (I think backdoor is cheap) but you ambush their heroes. Watching out for these ganks is another skill that a player learns in time.

I find DotA a game of intrigue, strategy and infinite replayability. Not so long ago I played a single hero with a passion, but now I've switched and play a lot more. The game is very variable and you always have to adapt, play well and all. I like DotA a lot. It's been more than a year but it's still fresh to me.

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Postby frozd » Jan 22 2007, 12:41

Rofl tft nubs! Roc dota with 32 heroes ftw!

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Postby winterfate » Jan 23 2007, 0:10

8|

You do know that if you're going to mock somebody, at least have the decency to spell correctly :disagree:.

Besides, well....bah....whatever, forget it! :disagree:
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Postby Banedon » Jan 23 2007, 0:37

He is spelling correctly :) Just a lot of abbrevations.

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Postby winterfate » Jan 23 2007, 1:00

It's just when someone comes out and says stuff like that it burns me up! :flame: I've never liked people that talk in that way...calling other people noobs...sheesh!

Truth be told, I haven't played Warcraft 3 in a while. That whole supply thing ticked me off :).
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Postby Banedon » Jan 23 2007, 15:46

I don't think he was mocking people either. It's something many Warcraft III players do :)

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Postby frozd » Jan 25 2007, 11:00

Banedon wrote:I don't think he was mocking people either. It's something many Warcraft III players do :)


I thought you would have gotten the joke. Since a lot of ROC dota players always flame those who play Dota Allstars on TFT.

(ROC = Warcraft III Reign of Chaos, TFT = Warcraft III The Frozen Throne, for those of you who don't get it)

This truly is a dota topic LOLOLOL.




Ow and winterfate I seriously doubt you haven't made a single typo in your almost 800 posts, so zip it panzy.

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Re: Warcraft III DotA - Best Map Ever?

Postby frozd » Jan 25 2007, 11:23

a55a55in wrote:I've played this custom-made map for Warcraft III Frozen Throne before. What I feel that the map is very imbalance.
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Dota is a team game not an individual lane war as people think. To be a good dota player you need to (in no particular order):

-PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE
-have good timing so you get last hits and make gold or deny units succesfully
-know which items work best for your hero
-know what your heroes' job is (disabler, sieger, healer, support, tank, damage dealer)
-have an arranged team of players who you know and trust not to screw things up in crucial moments
-find out which skills, spells work best in combos and make your team's timing right
-watch replays of clans that are considered pro carefully and see what they do, when they do it and why the do it


If i forgot anything feel free to expand the list.

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Postby Suleman » Mar 6 2007, 20:26

Ah, Dota. The very reason I haven't been to the boards in a while. We play this all the time... at school.
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I'm baaaaaack!

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Postby BoardGuest808888 » Mar 8 2007, 7:13

Practically change Warcraft from a game into gaming platform that is.

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Postby frozd » Apr 2 2007, 12:17

BoardGuest808888 wrote:Practically change Warcraft from a game into gaming platform that is.


Yeah you're right about that. There are so many clans and tourneys happening. I think if it weren't for that costum game play would be pretty much dead. I mean at any given moment you at least have 30 to 40 % off all costum games dota allstars. I'm impressed!


I've been a long time roc dota player, just switched to dota allstars recently, was a bit confused but after a few days playing the game and reading a few guides I'm begining to understand it. Don't get me wrong I still plain old blow at it. But I'm having a lot of fun, damn it feels good to be a noob who people flame again.

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Postby BoardGuest808888 » Apr 19 2007, 9:50

Some all star heroes are indeed imbalanced.

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Banedon
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Postby Banedon » Apr 23 2007, 11:46

What makes you say that?

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Postby BoardGuest808888 » Apr 25 2007, 9:31

Sorry, I mean some all-star heroes are indeed imbalanced, not some/all heroes are imbalanced.

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Banedon
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Postby Banedon » Apr 25 2007, 12:34

Which heroes do you think are imbalanced?


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