Neverwinter Nights News

[DaemianLucifer]

I, myself, dont care much if RPG has D&D system or not. But using D&D doest mean that whole game world should consist of "aventure rooms" that are waiting for the main "actor".
Thus, if everything that is writen about game levels and NPC is true - I agree with 5/10

Thats why I asked for someone who played to answer me.

@DaemianLucifer:
Please remove my nick from quote that is not actualy my, next time.

Sorry,I usually do that,but forgot this time.

[ThunderTitan]

Actually comparing to oblivion in termes of NPCs and expansivnes is valid.

NPC's yeah, but 1st person vs 3rd person view?! What next, he's complain that he can't see the sky?

of "adventure rooms" that are waiting for the main "actor"

You do realize that that's exactly what every map in any game ever is, right? Now if you had added "small" somewhere in there...

[DaemianLucifer]

NPC's yeah, but 1st person vs 3rd person view?! What next, he's complain that he can't see the sky?

And you saw that complaint where?All I saw was complaining about how the areas look cramped compared to oblivion and how NPCs seem featurless compared to oblivion.Again,those are valid.

You do realize that that's exactly what every map in any game ever is, right? Now if you had added "small" somewhere in there...

No,thats not what every map is.NPCs in elder scrolls do other things even when youre not there(at least they did in morrowind,and I doubt they dont in oblivion as well).

[ThunderTitan]

All I saw was complaining about how the areas look cramped compared to oblivion and how NPCs seem featurless compared to oblivion.Again,those are valid.

INSERT BRAIN HERE.

No,thats not what every map is.NPCs in elder scrolls do other things even when youre not there(at least they did in morrowind,and I doubt they dont in oblivion as well).

Sure they do, i'm betting that they have full and fulfilling lives while you're not there.

Somehow i doubt that your PC is runing the entire world at the same time. [/i]

[Meandor]

No,thats not what every map is.NPCs in elder scrolls do other things even when youre not there(at least they did in morrowind,and I doubt they dont in oblivion as well).

Can`t remember anything interesting about that one. To me, walking in circles and standing still is practicaly same thing.

[DaemianLucifer]

INSERT BRAIN HERE.

Sure, the interface is sleeker with context-sensitive menus and a smart little bar that lets you more intuitively toggle modes like "power attack" and "stealth," but with all the added rule-shuffling, NWN2 seems like it's working twice as hard to accomplish half as much. Worse -- and blame this on games like Oblivion -- NWN2's levels feel pint-sized: Peewee zones inhabited by pull-string NPCs with no existence to speak of beyond their little playpens. Wander and you'll wonder why the forests, towns, and dungeons are like movie lots with lay-about monsters waiting patiently for you to trip their arbitrary triggers. As if the pencil and paper "module" approach were a virtue that computers -- by now demonstrably capable of simulating entire worlds with considerably more depth -- should emulate. It's like we're supposed to park half our brain in feature mania and the rest in nostalgic slush, and somehow call bingo.

Oh yes,definitely a complaint about how its a 3rd person view with worse graphics.

Sure they do, i'm betting that they have full and fulfilling lives while you're not there.

Somehow i doubt that your PC is runing the entire world at the same time.

Of course they dont.There isnt enough processor power in the world to do that.But they can give you an illusion that they are doing something other than waiting for you to come up(for example a guy gets mugged and chases a thief to the streets).

[MistWeaver]

of "adventure rooms" that are waiting for the main "actor"

You do realize that that's exactly what every map in any game ever is, right? Now if you had added "small" somewhere in there...

Im not talking about implementation. Neither Im arguing that making player - center of the game is bad(from developing point). As a player I do not care for this. I care about game-world that pretends to be real.
Fallout, Elder Scrolls, X2/X3, Elite, Gothic - all this worlds succeeded in this. Both - by gameworld size and by NPC behavior.
And if game-world even not trying to pretend - that game is not fun for me. Take first NWN - whole game reminds MUD with graphics. World of rooms, with maximum 4 exits on each. Quest in the forest - here comes forest room 50x50 meters long, and so on. These type of RPGs are not entertaining me.

[ThunderTitan]

Oh yes,definitely a complaint about how its a 3rd person view with worse graphics.

We're did i say "worse graphics"? He said the maps are very small compared to Oblivion. Might as well complain that RTS's don't have big enough maps.

Of course they dont.There isnt enough processor power in the world to do that.

NASA....

As for the illusion of, that in no way makes what i said less true.

And if game-world even not trying to pretend - that game is not fun for me. Take first NWN - whole game reminds MUD with graphics. World of rooms, with maximum 4 exits on each. Quest in the forest - here comes forest room 50x50 meters long, and so on. These type of RPGs are not entertaining me.

True, that is a minus. Not as much for me as for you, but i get it.

[DaemianLucifer]

We're did i say "worse graphics"? He said the maps are very small compared to Oblivion. Might as well complain that RTS's don't have big enough maps.

So,let me get this straight,the difference between a first person RPG like morrowind and oblivion and a third person RPG like NWN is in that first person RPGs have much more exploration freedom?

NASA....

Still not nearly enough.

As for the illusion of, that in no way makes what i said less true.

Yes it does.You can make the illusion of NPCs acting on their own.It already has been done,lots of times.

[Omega_Destroyer]

Does it really make that much of an impact on how NPCs act? Have you ever played a game and thought "There is some truly stellar NPC interaction in this game!"?

[ThunderTitan]

So,let me get this straight,the difference between a first person RPG like morrowind and oblivion and a third person RPG like NWN is in that first person RPGs have much more exploration freedom?

The view affects what can be done graphicaly. Duh...

Yes it does.You can make the illusion of NPCs acting on their own.It already has been done,lots of times.

What does that have to do with the fact that every map in any game ever is an "adventure room" that is waiting for the main "actor"? Delusions aside that's what they are.


And when did you test those computers NASA has?!

[MistWeaver]

What does that have to do with the fact that every map in any game ever is an "adventure room" that is waiting for the main "actor"? Delusions aside that's what they are.

Not always, in X2 world really lived and developed on its own. In X3 they removed it. The world still lives, but major events are attached to player actions. (Like in Oblivion - where storyline would develop only when player wants it (following major quest))

[DaemianLucifer]

The view affects what can be done graphicaly. Duh...

What the hell does the view of the main character have to do with the extensivness of the outher world?Check out fallout,it was very,very opened,and its over 10 years old.Check out arcanum,which is pretty vast.And both have 3rd person view.

What does that have to do with the fact that every map in any game ever is an "adventure room" that is waiting for the main "actor"? Delusions aside that's what they are.

Its easy to make them not be adventure rooms waiting for the main actor.Just make a few timed scripts and youll be inside a dynamic world instead of a static one.

And when did you test those computers NASA has?!

A simple thing:Each stelar body is subjet to just a single force - gravity;Each NPC can be a subject of tens,hundreds and even thousands of forces(from simple things like gold,hunger,thirst,to complicated emotions like anger,jealosy,etc).And while calculating the trajectories for just a few heavenly bodies requires almost all of NASAs computing power,imagine how much would be needed to track lets say just a thousand NPCs.

[MistWeaver]

Check out arcanum,which is pretty vast.And both have 3rd person view.

Ah.. arcanum! Thats an example of good-designed game world. Its huge, diverse and really opened. You can travel through whole continent without switching to global map view. Just like in Oblivion. (Yet acranum is 1000 times better )

[ThunderTitan]

Check out fallout,it was very,very opened,and its over 10 years old.Check out arcanum,which is pretty vast.And both have 3rd person view.

Repeat after me: 2D!

Heck, one of NWN2's devs said that while the editor could make bigger maps they didn't use them because they'd take too much memory or whatever. Suckz, but what can you do.

Its easy to make them not be adventure rooms waiting for the main actor.Just make a few timed scripts and youll be inside a dynamic world instead of a static one.

No, that only creates the illusion that they're not adventure rooms waiting for the main actor.

A simple thing:Each stelar body is subjet to just a single force - gravity;Each NPC can be a subject of tens,hundreds and even thousands of forces(from simple things like gold,hunger,thirst,to complicated emotions like anger,jealosy,etc).And while calculating the trajectories for just a few heavenly bodies requires almost all of NASAs computing power,imagine how much would be needed to track lets say just a thousand NPCs.

That depends completly on how each thing you mentioned is calculated. The NPC's don't really need personal emotions, they could just have a few hundred preset patterns for all of 'em.

[ThunderTitan]

Did you guys hear?! Elves never stop growing. And there's one in the swamp that's 5 meters tall and who's gaze turns people into rocks.

[DaemianLucifer]

Repeat after me: 2D!

Heck, one of NWN2's devs said that while the editor could make bigger maps they didn't use them because they'd take too much memory or whatever. Suckz, but what can you do.

Something like the oblivion uses perhaps?The graphics there is quite impresive,dont you think?

No, that only creates the illusion that they're not adventure rooms waiting for the main actor.

And what did I say just a comment earlier?Oh yes:"Yes it does.You can make the illusion of NPCs acting on their own.It already has been done,lots of times."

That depends completly on how each thing you mentioned is calculated. The NPC's don't really need personal emotions, they could just have a few hundred preset patterns for all of 'em.

Again,much much more than stellar bodies have(velocity,position and mass).

[ThunderTitan]

No, that only creates the illusion that they're not adventure rooms waiting for the main actor.

And what did I say just a comment earlier?Oh yes:"Yes it does.You can make the illusion of NPCs acting on their own.It already has been done,lots of times."

Ahem:

Its easy to make them not be adventure rooms waiting for the main actor.

You can't, you can just make it seem that way if you do it right.


As fo the other 2, i don't know enough about either process to really comment.

[ThunderTitan]

Witness the incredible dissapearing posts. Only on TTv.


Ok, i think i just figured out what that silver shards is (opening cinematic + a certain loading Tip).

Any one know if it is a piece of [size=0]a Githyanki blade[/size]? (quote to see - posible spoiler)

[Omega_Destroyer]

Indeed.