X-COM, the remake

Because we play other games too.

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Postby Dalai » Feb 25 2013, 18:57

Kalah wrote:I've played for a while on marathon mode now, and while it does last a bit longer, I also had to extend the experience by delaying (selectively) the research so the game didn't progress too quickly. Right now I am ready to start the final mission. But I don't want to. I want to play more. But the missions are too few and far between. Only 3-4 per month ... :sad:

Yes, true. That is why I always try to leave 2 countries on my starting continent without satellites - the game continues to generate abduction missions, and you already have continent bonus.

Although the final mission does seem to happen too soon, I am starting to think that the last part of the game is too boring. Your soldiers are too skilled, weapon is too powerful, and council missions turn into walk in the park, when you don't even have to shoot - you kill all sectoids and thinmen with simple mindfray. 100% success chance, oneshots. In the first 3 months those same missions are the most thrilling events there are.

I think that the most interesting part of the game ends when you cover (almost) all countries with satellites. Those are tough economic choices!
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Postby Kalah » Feb 27 2013, 20:21

The progression of the game does seem to be the biggest problem. When I first started up, I found it extremely difficult to cope with the aliens with bullets and even laser based weaponry. Once I got my plasma rifles, however, it was quite easy, and when I got titan armour, it was very easy.

The only really big challenge I found was actually getting as far as the plasma weapons - i.e. preventing countries from withdrawing from the project even if I succeeded in my missions (since panic increases so quickly in the places you don't choose).
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Postby Kalah » Mar 8 2013, 1:32

SPOILERS BELOW:

-

Just finished replaying it. The final mission is actually way too easy - too few aliens and the final fight (against 1 Uber Ethereal, 2 Ethereals and 2 Muton Elites) is also quite easy. You just have to go straight for main boss, the "Uber Ethereal", and all the others vanish.
Last edited by Anonymous on Mar 8 2013, 16:05, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Dalai » Mar 8 2013, 15:45

Kalah wrote:Just finished replaying it. The final mission is actually way too easy - too few aliens and the final fight (against 1 Uber Ethereal, 2 Ethereals and 2 Muton Elites) is also quite easy. You just have to go straight for main boss, the "Uber Ethereal", and all the others vanish.

1. This is actually a spoiler. When you don't know about it the battle can be quite tough.
2. Looks like Normal difficulty. I remember killing more Muton-Elites on Classic.
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Postby Kalah » Mar 8 2013, 16:04

Yeah, sorry about that - guess people should be warned about it ... ;)

I didn't know when I first had that battle (you can "guess" it since all other creatures you kill on that mission disappear when killed), but I went straight for the big honcho nontheless, as I naturally assumed it was the most powerful one. A delightful surprise that he was the hivemind ...

So what's next, I wonder? I really liked this game and hope they will make a sequel, with more stuff and without too many engine/graphics alterations.
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Postby Dalai » Mar 10 2013, 15:20

Kalah wrote:Yeah, sorry about that - guess people should be warned about it ... ;)

I didn't know when I first had that battle (you can "guess" it since all other creatures you kill on that mission disappear when killed), but I went straight for the big honcho nontheless, as I naturally assumed it was the most powerful one. A delightful surprise that he was the hivemind ...

So what's next, I wonder? I really liked this game and hope they will make a sequel, with more stuff and without too many engine/graphics alterations.

Spoilers continue:

There are high chances to guess the solution, that's true. Most probably you will have a sniper in corridor with squad sight ability. And most probably you will make a recon mission with either mind-controlled Muton-Elite from previous room or some soldier in Ghost Armor. Shooting the guy in center does seem logical.

When I was there for the first time, I mind-controlled one of the 'lesser' Etherials. Not much tactical use at that stage, but still lot of fun :)

I will definitely play at least one more time to try Chinese-pack missions. I like some second-wave options immensely, especially random stats (both starting and level-up) and random financing from different countries. Each game becomes truly different. Sometimes you get some very interesting results, like marksman Heavy :)
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Postby Kalah » May 1 2013, 14:28

I quite like what I'm seeing here. :)

Hoping for a full-on expansion since there is no need to reinvent the wheel; the original game works well and what I want first and foremost is more missions. More DLCs can be released to simply give players more missions for the original game, but I also want to see what this "new threat" (also spoken of by the Ethereals) is all about.
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Postby Dalai » Nov 12 2013, 22:21

'XCOM: Enemy Within' is out. Must be awesome! :-D
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Postby GreatEmerald » Nov 19 2013, 18:41

It's not bad, although still leaves a lot to be desired. The EXALT arc is anticlimactic, the base defence is plot-driven and uses a static map, and they introduced more bugs than they solved.

Though the new abilities, maps and missions are nice. I like the Training Roulette most of all the new things – in a single run of impossible ironman with all second wave options I've watched, the player first had a squad that almost all had double grenades (Grenadier, Deep Pockets etc.), and later on in the same run had half the squad with superpowered overwatch (Sentinel, Opportunist, the MEC overwatch ability). It's really fun.

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Postby Dalai » Nov 26 2013, 10:24

I am enjoing it immensely. Training Roulette resulted in having no Medics in squad, and abductions happened in countries so that South America remained w/o satellites for 3 months. As a result I have a very tough game on Classic, more tough than my previous game of EU on impossible.

New weapons, new enemies, new technologies, a lot of good ideas from different mods - so much fun!
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Postby Kalah » Nov 26 2013, 11:54

Yes, the biggest drawback on the original version was that once you had played it, you could easily put together the best type of squad by choosing your soldier's training accordingly; the choices in skills as they evolve are usually complete no-brainers: The "field medic" and "saviour" abilities for supports, "snapshot" and "in the zone" for snipers come to mind ... The biggest improvement they should introduce for coming games is to increase the number of options you can train your soldiers in, as well as making it more difficult to choose between the different skills.

By the way, the DLC is quite expensive for a DLC ... is it worth the current price, you think?
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Postby Dalai » Nov 27 2013, 23:25

Kalah wrote:Yes, the biggest drawback on the original version was that once you had played it, you could easily put together the best type of squad by choosing your soldier's training accordingly; the choices in skills as they evolve are usually complete no-brainers: The "field medic" and "saviour" abilities for supports, "snapshot" and "in the zone" for snipers come to mind ... The biggest improvement they should introduce for coming games is to increase the number of options you can train your soldiers in, as well as making it more difficult to choose between the different skills.

By the way, the DLC is quite expensive for a DLC ... is it worth the current price, you think?

I don't think it was that easy. In EU I would never chose snapshot over squadsight, for example. Now they nerfed squadsight and boosted snapshot, and both became viable options. And even now only my third sniper got snapshot. 'Bullet swarm' vs 'Holo-targeting' is not an easy choice either. Although I too prefer 'in the zone', too many players choose 'double tap' for their snipers.

There are some non-obvious choices on strategy level too. Where to build base? Invest in SHIVs or ignore them? Go for lasers or alien prisoners first?

Different difficulty levels, different styles of play, different events produce different choices. You can't play with the same perfect team - they get killed or wounded, for example.
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Postby Kalah » Nov 29 2013, 20:50

Dalai wrote:I don't think it was that easy. In EU I would never chose snapshot over squadsight, for example. Now they nerfed squadsight and boosted snapshot, and both became viable options. And even now only my third sniper got snapshot. 'Bullet swarm' vs 'Holo-targeting' is not an easy choice either. Although I too prefer 'in the zone', too many players choose 'double tap' for their snipers.


I actually do find it quite easy. Always "snapshot" over "squadsight" because of the overwatch function. As my snipers progress, thanks to the "opportunist" skill, they can get free shots (that hit ca. 90% of the time) whenever something moves. As a result, I have killed +5 targets with a single sniper in a single turn!

Dalai wrote:Where to build base?

That's a good one, yes. I tend to go for Africa because of the extra money, which is important in early to mid game. South America is also good since you get the autopsies/interrogations fast, giving you better tech and research speed ... although that might be a problem since tech progression is what decides your opposition.

Dalai wrote:Invest in SHIVs or ignore them?

Ignore, always. They are simply not as good as soldiers because SHIVs don't gain skills. They are no match for a well-trained soldier and the one advantage they do have (the fact that losing one costs money and not a trained soldier) is actually not that big an advantage, since money is so important in the game.

Dalai wrote:Go for lasers or alien prisoners first?

Screw lasers, go for plasma asap. You need the firepower fast and going down the laser path is a side track. The only advantage of laser weapons is the fact that they are cheaper to build and don't require Elerium.

The only thing to really change the game ... well, that's the difficulty level.
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Postby Dalai » Dec 2 2013, 13:23

Kalah wrote:I actually do find it quite easy. Always "snapshot" over "squadsight" because of the overwatch function. As my snipers progress, thanks to the "opportunist" skill, they can get free shots (that hit ca. 90% of the time) whenever something moves. As a result, I have killed +5 targets with a single sniper in a single turn!
Both snapshot and squadsight snipers can overwatch. The difference is squadsight sniper sits somwhere high and out of harm's way, and can deliver damage to any point on the battlefield. Opportunist is available to both types of sniper, but later than it's actually needed.

That's a good one, yes. I tend to go for Africa because of the extra money, which is important in early to mid game. South America is also good since you get the autopsies/interrogations fast, giving you better tech and research speed ... although that might be a problem since tech progression is what decides your opposition.
I prefer Asia - it's 4 counties continent and you need OTS and Foundry quite early in the game. SA is good, but easy to get with just 2 satellites.

Ignore, always. They are simply not as good as soldiers because SHIVs don't gain skills. They are no match for a well-trained soldier and the one advantage they do have (the fact that losing one costs money and not a trained soldier) is actually not that big an advantage, since money is so important in the game.
Did it happen to you to lose some 3-5 most skilled soldiers in a single mission? What did you do then? Sent rookies?

In EW Mec's take most of the SHIV's place in tactics.

Screw lasers, go for plasma asap. You need the firepower fast and going down the laser path is a side track. The only advantage of laser weapons is the fact that they are cheaper to build and don't require Elerium.
Agree, although the very first laser tech research is usually not worth skipping.
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Postby Kalah » Dec 2 2013, 14:45

Dalai wrote:Both snapshot and squadsight snipers can overwatch. The difference is squadsight sniper sits somwhere high and out of harm's way, and can deliver damage to any point on the battlefield. Opportunist is available to both types of sniper, but later than it's actually needed.


Squadsight is limited to maps with possibility of climbing to higher ground, or the archangel suit, which arrives too late in the game. When attempting to build Squadsight, I often found that my sniper simply couldn't hit the targets as she was blocked. While Squadsight snipers can also use Overwatch, they need to stand still a turn for it to happen. I find this frustrating, as the sniper is my most important unit and I need him to make kills every round and as many times as possible.

Dalai wrote:Did it happen to you to lose some 3-5 most skilled soldiers in a single mission? What did you do then? Sent rookies?


Actually, I have lost some important units, but since I focus on using soldiers and make sure they get trained (instead of letting a SHIV take their place), I always have more units coming up. Casualties are part of the game. ;)
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Postby Dalai » Dec 3 2013, 14:35

Kalah wrote:Squadsight is limited to maps with possibility of climbing to higher ground
No, it's not. High ground bonus is, but it's not a dealbraker.

While Squadsight snipers can also use Overwatch, they need to stand still a turn for it to happen. I find this frustrating, as the sniper is my most important unit and I need him to make kills every round and as many times as possible.
My squadsight sniper often moves just once per mission. Sometimes he doesn't move at all, if he has something to shoot every turn.

Casualties are part of the game. ;)
Yes they are. But SHIVa are much better than early- and midrank soldiers, and are sometimes the only insurance player has for a really rainy day.

Regarding experience wasted on SHIVs - you can wound/suppress enemies and let rookies finish them to gain XP.

I think they should be available from the very beginning of the game, that would make them more viable choice.
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Postby Kalah » Dec 3 2013, 18:42

Dalai wrote:
Kalah wrote:Squadsight is limited to maps with possibility of climbing to higher ground
No, it's not. High ground bonus is, but it's not a dealbraker.


But if the lack of high ground means you're blocked, that means Squadsight doesn't work. Happened to me a few times and I dropped the ability after that.

Dalai wrote:My squadsight sniper often moves just once per mission. Sometimes he doesn't move at all, if he has something to shoot every turn.


Only usable on small outdoor missions, then. Certainly not for taking UFOs. :tongue:

Dalai wrote:But SHIVs are much better than early- and midrank soldiers, and are sometimes the only insurance player has for a really rainy day.


But they cost way too much to develop and build, man! Troops cost less and have a much higher potential. :)
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Postby Dalai » Dec 5 2013, 16:19

Kalah wrote:But if the lack of high ground means you're blocked, that means Squadsight doesn't work. Happened to me a few times and I dropped the ability after that.
The lack of high ground AND abundance of obstacles means you are blocked. So you'd better climb the highest obstacle.

Only usable on small outdoor missions, then. Certainly not for taking UFOs. :tongue:
On UFO missions you kill everybody but 1 or 2 commanding units outside. Then you can move your sniper closer to command deck. Even now it does not necessarily mean you'll be limited to pistol only.

But they cost way too much to develop and build, man! Troops cost less and have a much higher potential. :)
Sometimes it's not about potential. Sometimes it's about seeing enemy and dealing damage right now.

As I said, try Ironman on Classic or Impossible. You'll see the game in different light.
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Postby Orfinn » Jul 6 2014, 14:00

Brought the classic X-com titles on steam recently, very good games. Always tense when aliens can just pop out of shadows and you lose a ton of soldiers to bad placement and/or bad Choice of equipment :p VERY memorable first time! Holds a ton of unpredictable challenge, yup. You may think you have a solid plan an then BAM! Got the newest game XCOM enemy within on the 360. Great game that too. Interesting New concepts and just as much challenge.

Though it may seem simpler in terms of how certain gameplay mechanics have been arranged and optimalized this time around its still very much worthy of the franchise.
They did a fantastic job With alot of potential to make an upcoming game in the franchise With the very best of both the old and this new addition. Both great in their own ways while maintaining the core concepts :)

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Postby Kalah » Jul 6 2014, 15:41

I agree - on the whole the game is great and it definitely gave me the same feeling I had in the late 90s: that feeling when you see an enemy type you haven't seen before and you go "AAAAAAH!" :scared: :D

Replayability is not as high, though - the only thing that can change is the strategies you use. Speaking of, I also bought the "Enemy within" pack but haven't tried it yet. Guess I'll have a go this summer.
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