Civilization V

Because we play other games too.

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Kalah
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Postby Kalah » Sep 27 2010, 13:09

It's cognitive dissonance. :D
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Re: Civilization V

Postby MistWeaver » Sep 27 2010, 17:50

Ethric wrote: Having to run a combined advertisement,
Just dont go to the store section and you wont see any.
Ethric wrote: surveillance and who know what else
This applies to ANY closed-source software. Including games themselves (see ME2) So if this troubles you - you can quit playing proprietary games altogether.
Kalah wrote:Yes, and this requires the connection to be open all the time, doesn't it?
No.
Ethric wrote: constant checking up and possibility of shutting you down.
What exactly "checking up" and "shutting down" means ?
As long as you dont buy games with stolen cards - your account will be fine.

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Postby Ethric » Sep 27 2010, 18:35

The innocent have nothing to fear, bring on the intrusions? I don't subscribe to that philosophy.
Who the hell locks these things?
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Re: Civilization V

Postby ThunderTitan » Sep 27 2010, 19:21

MistWeaver wrote: What exactly "checking up" and "shutting down" means ?
As long as you dont buy games with stolen cards - your account will be fine.
Unless they make some sort of ****-up and say your paypal account which you shut down months ago didn't pay them for something that was supposedly bought a few weeks ago...

Or someone hijacks your account as it's been known to happen and once they closed it you won't get it back even if you prove it was stolen...
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Postby MistWeaver » Sep 27 2010, 21:58

Ethric wrote:The innocent have nothing to fear, bring on the intrusions? I don't subscribe to that philosophy.
Again, what intrusions? It's been few times already with all the steam==spyware thing, any facts or at least reasoning for that? "Because they can" not counts.

As for the fraud ban. That's how non-cash payments work - it can always be traced. No spyware required, banks have it all.

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Postby ThunderTitan » Sep 28 2010, 6:54

Steam does send back info to Valve by design... it has to or there would be no cloud saves or achievements or anything... but i'm sure they don't steal your passwords... they probably just do it like google and sell your search history to advertisement companies...

And there's also this:

According to the Steam Subscriber Agreement, Steam's availability is not guaranteed and Valve is under no legal obligation to release an update disabling the authentication system in the event that Steam becomes permanently unavailable.[86]
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Postby Ethric » Sep 28 2010, 16:01

I defer to TT's comments on the issue.
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Postby MistWeaver » Sep 28 2010, 18:01

Ethric wrote:I defer to TT's comments on the issue.
You're dodging it. This:
Steam does send back info to Valve by design... it has to or there would be no cloud saves or achievements or anything...
has nothing to do with intrusion or spying. Besides you can disable cloud if dont want to store your saved games on steam servers.

ThunderTitan wrote: And there's also this:

According to the Steam Subscriber Agreement, Steam's availability is not guaranteed and Valve is under no legal obligation to release an update disabling the authentication system in the event that Steam becomes permanently unavailable.[86]
That goes for every online activated DRM. But in this case - it's more likely you'll damage/lose your DVD, than steam will go offline forever.

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Postby Kalah » Sep 28 2010, 19:15

MistWeaver wrote:That goes for every online activated DRM. But in this case - it's more likely you'll damage/lose your DVD, than steam will go offline forever.
It isn't actually - not in my case. I always make copies of my discs and use those. The originals are stacked nicely in my CD shelf, practically mint. I won't damage them since they're not in use, and I won't lose them unless the building burns down.

Anyway, back to the topic, I don't want to buy any game the producers of which say: "Before we'll let you give us money and buy our game, you have to agree to certain conditions ...".
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Postby TheUndeadKing » Sep 28 2010, 19:49

Kalah wrote:I don't want to buy any game the producers of which say: "Before we'll let you give us money and buy our game, you have to agree to certain conditions ...".
Which means you don't want to buy video games at all. :D
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Postby Kalah » Sep 28 2010, 20:31

Nah, the standard conditions - such as agreeing not to copy the thing and redistribute it - have been a part of the industry for two decades. It's understood; it has become a natural part of the buying of a game.

It's when the producers start to expand upon such policies, taking abnormal liberties, that I object. I feel it's a bit like my going into a car shop, and the salesman says: "I'll only sell you this car if you agree to let us install a security camera in it."
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Postby ThunderTitan » Sep 29 2010, 7:36

It's understood; it has become a natural part of the buying of a game.
Fun Fact: You don't actually buy a game... you buy a license to use the game... and Bill Gates is the one that started that... something he'll never be forgiven for, no matter how many starving children he helps...

MistWeaver wrote: has nothing to do with intrusion or spying. Besides you can disable cloud if dont want to store your saved games on steam servers.
You misunderstand, i mean there is a system in place that send Valve your information, and it's not just saves, but how you play, when etc... and it's not just the cloud, look at your stats for any game.

But like i said, it's not spyware because it's not sniffing for passwords or other stuff you do off steam (as far as we know).

MistWeaver wrote: That goes for every online activated DRM. But in this case - it's more likely you'll damage/lose your DVD, than steam will go offline forever.
Eh... name 1 game company that has existed since the early 80's that's still around...

And of course that is still **** no matter which online DRM system is used, but unlike Steam a lot of those get patched out by regular patches the devs put out... on Steam that can't happen because usually the whole game is tied into it.

Which just gave me the idea to ask Relic to remove steam activation from DoW2+CR now that the next one will be totally stand alone with no GfWL.
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Postby MistWeaver » Sep 29 2010, 16:43

ThunderTitan wrote: Eh... name 1 game company that has existed since the early 80's that's still around...
here's few, you might even know them:
Capcom(dev&publisher)
Activision (dev&publisher)
EA (dev&publicher&distributor)
LucasArts (dev&publisher)

All of them were founded before 84.

And here we have Valve (dev&distributor) that is pretty much monopolist on PC games digital distribution market.
I dont think they will be going down anytime soon.


Now you tell me what games from the early 80's that you still want to play.

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Postby Humakt » Sep 29 2010, 18:44

I prefer Good Old Games to Steam when it comes to digital distributing. No drm or other strings attached. Lately they even released such classics as Planescape Torment and Baldur's Gate.

Steam, I only get the games there when I can get them real cheap. It is too bad that many games that are distributed traditionally require digital service for activation.
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Postby Talin_Trollbane » Oct 1 2010, 16:52

i buy all my games nowadays on TPB, guaranteed DRM/Steam activation free.
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Postby ThunderTitan » Oct 2 2010, 18:09

Talin_Trollbane wrote:i buy all my games nowadays on TPB, guaranteed DRM/Steam activation free.
Ha, newb... TPB has been too high profile for years.

MistWeaver wrote:
ThunderTitan wrote: Eh... name 1 game company that has existed since the early 80's that's still around...
here's few, you might even know them:
Capcom(dev&publisher)
Activision (dev&publisher)
EA (dev&publicher&distributor)
LucasArts (dev&publisher)

All of them were founded before 84.

And here we have Valve (dev&distributor) that is pretty much monopolist on PC games digital distribution market.
I dont think they will be going down anytime soon.
Damn, i intended to exclude LucasArts from the get-go by not allowing companies that are supported by massive media empires and death stars... i guess i forgot once my work net finally loaded the reply window.

And really, Activision and EA... that's one in favour of the no-drm crowd if i ever saw one. While Capcom's business model is SF versions after versions...

Now you tell me what games from the early 80's that you still want to play.
Someone mention LucasArts: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monkey_Isl ... al_Edition http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Secret ... al_Edition (OK, they where from the 90's, but still, same idea).


But really, i hope that Valve actually does what their CEO said and remove Steam activation if they even go out of business.
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Postby Talin_Trollbane » Oct 2 2010, 19:57

Now you tell me what games from the early 80's that you still want to play.
i have a whole folder with games ranging from 1984 up to 1994.
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Postby ThunderTitan » Oct 2 2010, 19:57

And Good Old Games seems to be doing very well too... crappy marketing stunt aside.
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Postby MistWeaver » Oct 6 2010, 14:02

ThunderTitan wrote: Damn, i intended to exclude LucasArts from the get-go by not allowing companies that are supported by massive media empires and death stars... i guess i forgot once my work net finally loaded the reply window.

And really, Activision and EA... that's one in favour of the no-drm crowd if i ever saw one. While Capcom's business model is SF versions after versions...
.
So you also needed to excude the ones that start with, lets say, "B", and those that are from France, and everything else you can now think of, to made the condition impossible. Proves your point, really.
Someone mention LucasArts.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monkey_Isl ... al_Edition http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Secret ... al_Edition (OK, they where from the 90's, but still, same idea).
SE's are from 2009. not even 90's

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Postby ThunderTitan » Oct 6 2010, 19:21

MistWeaver wrote: So you also needed to excude the ones that start with, lets say, "B", and those that are from France, and everything else you can now think of, to made the condition impossible. Proves your point, really.
I only excluded LucasArts, and for good reason (they even stated to suck once they only made SW games too).

The rest prove my point because lets face it, they survived by being dicks...

MistWeaver wrote: SE's are from 2009. not even 90's
Someone missed the point by a mile... for the remakes to get made someone must have stil been interested in playing those games... and MI is the perfect example because they only gave them better graphics (the more responsive UI is more about how good hardware is compared to then).
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