The Necromancy skill in Equilibris

[BrennusWhiskey]

Look at the name of this thread.

And summoning is for me its a some magic skill; so what the hell are doing here squires???

[Le_Faucheur]

summoning is linked to nature.
summoning demons is good, cause the speciality of the demonologist is the summoning of demons, so why not.

but if everyone can use it to raise what he wants, it isn't linked to nature anymore.
in that case I should also be able to raise crusaders with necromancy...

by the way, localisation : paris, so you are french.

[okrane]

by the way, localisation : paris, so you are french.

I live in Paris, yes, but I'm not french ...

by your name, you seem french too... t'es d'où?

[Siegfried]

but if everyone can use it to raise what he wants, it isn't linked to nature anymore.
in that case I should also be able to raise crusaders with necromancy...

No, no and no.

1. With summoning you won't raise nothing. Even the demons for the demonologist are not raised, but summoned. Only undead are raised.

2. Noone will summon what he wants. Everyone will automatically and fixed summon creatures of his own alignment, nothing else. Exactly this happens if a necromancer demonologist summons demons. On the other side it may be logical that a nature demonologist still summons leprechauns, wolfes and the like. O.k., that would be a point for discussion.

3. Summoning (that summoning which happens automatically on a daily base) is still linked to nature magic, since you get that skill only with nature magic. And it is somewhat similar to diplomacy or charm, except that you get only small numbers, but daily and without fight. Charm isn't a magic skill, it's nothing with spell points. Still it is linked to order magic. So charming any opposite creatures to your own army is not a magical act. Neither is that daily summoning necessarily a magical act, although technically it is linked to the nature magic school. So it would be quite logical if you could "summon" any living beeing this way. But no undead, since they are not summoned but raised. And i'd recommend: No mechanical, since they are not living. Because of that, a necromancer with summoning skill would not summon undead, but daemons. They are living, too.

[Dalai]

We had a lot of discussions about summoning, necromancy, demonologists and stuff around it. We think that summoning should stay the way it is - a skill of summoning nature creatures. If you don't need it - don't take it. If you already have it - bring up summoning menu and choose 'none'. You'll save a lot of 'summoning points' (cool feature, try it!) and may be (most probably) you'll find a good usage for them later. Or you can summon fast sprites and send them out as scouts each turn.

The same concerns necromancy. If you don't want to raise undead creatures - don't invest in that skill. If you already have it - set it to 'none'. Or raise ghosts for scouting work. Or put ghosts into mines. Lot of choices, actually!

Summoning creatures according to alignment of summoner-hero is bad idea either. If I play nature, I'll most probably have ways to get couple of nature skills easily. I'll probably go for Wizard or Demonologist (given a Tavern nearby). But my army is still a Nature army, I don't want to summon demons or chaos creatures.

[okrane]

Summoning creatures according to alignment of summoner-hero is bad idea either. If I play nature, I'll most probably have ways to get couple of nature skills easily. I'll probably go for Wizard or Demonologist (given a Tavern nearby). But my army is still a Nature army, I don't want to summon demons or chaos creatures.

If you play nature and want to Summon Nature creatures... get a druid... it's the easiest way

[Dalai]

When I play Nature, I have a Thief-support very often. Tactical variety in HoMM-IV is ensured by the possibility to combine different heroes in one army, you know that.

From the common sense point of view, summoning Crusaders or mages looks weird at least.

[okrane]

When I play Nature, I have a Thief-support very often. Tactical variety in HoMM-IV is ensured by the possibility to combine different heroes in one army, you know that.

of course... but I doubt you take nature magic with your thief.... probably you go for a ranger or smth...

From the common sense point of view, summoning Crusaders or mages looks weird at least.

This is true.
The discussion started from the demonologist class, because the creatures summoned by the summoning skill of a death demonologist would have huge moral penalties.
On a common sense point of view, Death and Chaos would be able to use Summoning with their creatures... but this would be a bit unfair, so I guess we could drop the whole thing.
Still... I was wondering about my other suggestion.

Magic Skill + Nature Magic = also add the creatures alligned to *Magic Skill* to the menu. (Only if the hero is of a special class composed by the 2 skills)
I mean:
If the Hero is a summoner: Life + Nature, and has summoning, add the corespondant life creatures, and you get to choose between nature and life. I agree that summoning archers would be weird, but would be good balance wize.
For the BeastMaster (Nature + Combat) we could add as a specialty summoning Might Creatures... that would be fun.
Archmage would be able to summon all existant creatures.

If the hero loses his special class, then only nature creatures are still available.

What do you think?

[Metathron]

I really dislike the idea of being able to summon creatures other than those from the Nature alignment. Summoning is to me closely related to Nature, and spreading it over to creatures/magics of other factions just dilutes its uniqueness.

[BrennusWhiskey]

We had a lot of discussions about summoning, necromancy, demonologists and stuff around it. We think that summoning should stay the way it is - a skill of summoning nature creatures. If you don't need it - don't take it. If you already have it - bring up summoning menu and choose 'none'. You'll save a lot of 'summoning points' (cool feature, try it!) and may be (most probably) you'll find a good usage for them later. Or you can summon fast sprites and send them out as scouts each turn.

The same concerns necromancy. If you don't want to raise undead creatures - don't invest in that skill. If you already have it - set it to 'none'. Or raise ghosts for scouting work. Or put ghosts into mines. Lot of choices, actually!

Summoning creatures according to alignment of summoner-hero is bad idea either. If I play nature, I'll most probably have ways to get couple of nature skills easily. I'll probably go for Wizard or Demonologist (given a Tavern nearby). But my army is still a Nature army, I don't want to summon demons or chaos creatures.

I agree 100%


quote:
I really dislike the idea of being able to summon creatures other than those from the Nature alignment. Summoning is to me closely related to Nature, and spreading it over to creatures/magics of other factions just dilutes its uniqueness

Me too

So... let's close this borred discuss

[Kalah]

Thread cleaned of off-topicness and rudeness per the wishes of author. Please stay on topic and be nice to each other.

[pacobac]

of course... but I doubt you take nature magic with your thief.... probably you go for a ranger or smth...

if you play multiplayer game and good maps:

http://www.archangelcastle.com/h4/ligue/cartes.php

http://www.toheroes.com/h4maps/medium.html

you can see all is possible, we don't like ranger, we prefere ninja with tief, lord commander with lord...........

on final battle (typical army, on medium map is: 3-4 heroes level 10 to 20, 10-20 level 4, 30-100 level 3), we prefer all heroes having skill magic, a simple "dispel" could give you the victory.......

on many off good map you can get early advanced classe.....

equilibris is a very good evolution, he need help a litle, barbarian, no big, amazing changes who kill this tactical game !!

[Akul]

Just an idea:

I never go for a demonologist. You need death magic and nature magic to become one. So with nature magic you get summoning sooner or later. With summoning you get small amounts of nature creatures on a daily basis. To get a consistent army you always have to convert them. Not that fun.

Then in Summoning menu select none and collect the Nature Energy. Aftere a month or two, summon a horde of nature creatures and convert theme. Now that will be fun

[Siegfried]

How do i get this summoning menu?

[Metathron]

Press ALT+E, but be careful that it is the Hero who is highlighted in your army in the bottom right corner of the screen (by default, the occupant of the first spot in the first row is highlighted each turn and more often than not, you won't have a hero in that spot).

[Siegfried]

Ah, thanks. And if i have several summoning heroes in an army i have to repeat that for any of them?

[Metathron]

Yes, I would think so.

[okrane]

If Multiple Summoning heroes in an army stack, why don't multiple necromancers stack also?

[Metathron]

Well, I am not really sure if summoning stacks, never really experimented with two or more summoners/necromancers... or any other magic user really (like resurrection, or sorcery, or charm). I guess if one of these stacks, they all should...

[Siegfried]

Not really sure, not really tested, but just out of observation of the game i'd say: No, they don't stack.