The Necromancy skill in Equilibris

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Metathron
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The Necromancy skill in Equilibris

Postby Metathron » Apr 27 2007, 13:47

In the standard version of HoMM IV (including GS and WoW), Necromancy was obviously immensely overpowered, enabling a player to amass a large number of vampires and overwhelm their opponent.

So necromancy was taken down a notch and I would like to know how players feel about that.

This is how necromancy works in equilibris:

Necromancy skill changed to make it weaker (20-40-60-80-120 XP + 15% per level) and creature selection wider. Menu for selecting what to raise is supplied (see Addendum 2).
The type of creatures necromancer raises after battle is now dependent on 3 factors:
1. Creature necromancer chose in Necromancy menu.
2. Necromancy skill level (B - Skeletons, A - Zombies, E - Mummies, M - Ghosts, Gargoyles, GM - Vampires, Bone Dragons).
3. Type of creatures slain in battle (1 level - Skeletons, Zombies, 2 level - Mummies, 3 level - Ghosts, Gargoyles, 4 level - Vampires, Dragons - Bone Dragons. Undead, mechanical and elemental creatures can not be raised in any form).

To raise Bone Dragons hero must choose Bone Dragons in Necromancy menu, be GM Necromancy and kill dragons.
To raise Vampires - select Vampires or Bone Dragons, be GM Necromancy, [kill 4-th level] OR [be GM Death Magic and kill 3-rd level]
To raise Ghosts - select Ghosts, Vampires or Bone Dragons, be at least M Necromancy, kill at least 2-nd level creatures.
To raise Gargoyles - select Gargoyles, be at least M Necromancy, kill at least 2-nd level creatures.
To raise Mummies - select Mummies, be at least E Necromancy, at least 2-nd level creatures.
To raise Zombies - select Zombies, be at least A Necromancy, kill any level creatures.
To raise Skeletons - select Skeletons, Ghosts, Vampires, Bone Dragons, have Necromancy at B, kill any level creatures.


Personally, I can count my fingers to see how many times I've used the equi necromancy. I just feel it's a bit...not worth investing experience into. I rather go after death magic proper.

What about you?
Last edited by Metathron on Apr 27 2007, 15:05, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby BrennusWhiskey » Apr 27 2007, 14:36

I dont think that is really weak.
Last time I played with a some nice guy and he collect over 500 ghosts. Weak?

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Postby Metathron » Apr 27 2007, 15:06

I didn't actually say it was really weak, just maybe not the top priority to invest your experience into.

500+ ghosts is a lot, but not really hugely powerful. I guess that makes it balanced?
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Postby BrennusWhiskey » Apr 27 2007, 16:33

Believe me over 500 ghosts and powerful magic can makes u die really fast ;)
I dont think is necromancy should be more powerful so

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Postby Le_Faucheur » Apr 27 2007, 16:48

I go for demons, so most of the time, no necromancy for me!

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Postby Metathron » Apr 27 2007, 17:25

Do you mean you have no spots left open to raise creatures after combat, or that you just don't like to mix the demonic with the undead?
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Postby Le_Faucheur » Apr 27 2007, 17:30

not enough spots. 3 heroes, devils, venom spawns, and some other random level 3 and 4 creatures. (well, maybe unless I have a spot for vampires and one for bone dragons)

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Postby okrane » Apr 27 2007, 22:15

I would say it's ok... i use undead and I find it to be useful...
Maybe vampires should be buffed again after this drop in power of the necromancy....

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Postby Galactygon » Apr 28 2007, 0:29

Would it be possible to implement a Necromancy system similar to the Dark Energy system in HoMM5, with the difference that you can choose to raise undead or demons?

-Galactygon

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Postby Dalai » Apr 28 2007, 7:06

If you explain, what is Dark Energy, why it is limited the way it is, where is the Light Energy for resurrection and many other questions I may ask you, we may talk about it.

Right now it's a rather clumsy crutch for poorly implemented feature.
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Postby Siegfried » Apr 28 2007, 8:13

Just an idea:

I never go for a demonologist. You need death magic and nature magic to become one. So with nature magic you get summoning sooner or later. With summoning you get small amounts of nature creatures on a daily basis. To get a consistent army you always have to convert them. Not that fun.

Much better fitting for a demonologist would be if instead he gets the same amount of daemons instead. So if it would be possible to change the summoning skill to summon daemons for a demonologist this would be nice. Just if it's possible :)

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Postby okrane » Apr 28 2007, 8:28

Galactygon wrote:Would it be possible to implement a Necromancy system similar to the Dark Energy system in HoMM5, with the difference that you can choose to raise undead or demons?

-Galactygon


I don't like this mixing of games... there is nothing wrong with heroes 4 necromancy and it should stay that way...

Just an idea:

I never go for a demonologist. You need death magic and nature magic to become one. So with nature magic you get summoning sooner or later. With summoning you get small amounts of nature creatures on a daily basis. To get a consistent army you always have to convert them. Not that fun.

Much better fitting for a demonologist would be if instead he gets the same amount of daemons instead. So if it would be possible to change the summoning skill to summon daemons for a demonologist this would be nice. Just if it's possible smile


This one I like.... if possible... than great.
Although I would make that you should be able to choose whether you want demons or nature creatures, because you might be originally a druid who is in the lead of a nature army.
At least make the summoning alignment dependant
if death then demons
if nature then animanls.

as an further step: what if all magic+nature magic classes would have this ability to summon creatures from the other alignment:

I mean: Chaos + Nature also adds summoning options for all chaos creatures...well level 1-3 ones that is...

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Postby Siegfried » Apr 28 2007, 9:11

okrane wrote:
as an further step: what if all magic+nature magic classes would have this ability to summon creatures from the other alignment:

I mean: Chaos + Nature also adds summoning options for all chaos creatures...well level 1-3 ones that is...


Right. I forgot that. May be simply dependent of alignment.

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Postby Le_Faucheur » Apr 28 2007, 9:52

good one!
(chaos + nature increases the number of spell points)

what about life + nature: the hero can summon knight from nowhere? ;|

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Postby okrane » Apr 28 2007, 10:25

I think we should ask the modders if this can be done, and if they like it. So the suggestions are:

1) As necromancy got nerfed, maybe rebuff the vapires to their 30 30 attack defense.

and/or

2) upon acquiring an advanced class which is composed of Nature Magic + Another Magic Skill, add to the Summoning Menu of this charachter all lvl 1-3 creatures of the alignment of this magic.

Life: Squires, Archers, (no Peasants because of abuses), Pikemen, (Ballistae?), Monks, Crusaders.
Order: Dwarves, Halflings, Magi, (Golems?), Nagas, Genies, (Evil Sorceresses - maybe with GM Summoning and GM Order with a really small bonus, like 1 sorceress every 2 weeks?)
Chaos: Orcs, Bandits, Medusas, Minotaurs, Trolls, Evil Eyes, Nightmares, Efreet, Goblin Knights?
Death: Imps, Cerberi, Venom Spawns, Gargoyles.


or another suggestion

3) Replace the menu of summoned creatures with creatures of the same alignment as the hero - i mean, if the hero is Nature aligned all remains the same, if he was innitially a Sorcerer for example replace the menu with chaos troops.

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Postby Siegfried » Apr 28 2007, 11:25

sumoning: I'd prefere same alignment as hero. No summoning of mechanical or undead. Gargoyles yes since they are elemental.

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Postby BrennusWhiskey » Apr 28 2007, 13:59

okrane wrote:I think we should ask the modders if this can be done, and if they like it. So the suggestions are:



2) upon acquiring an advanced class which is composed of Nature Magic + Another Magic Skill, add to the Summoning Menu of this charachter all lvl 1-3 creatures of the alignment of this magic.

Life: Squires, Archers, (no Peasants because of abuses), Pikemen, (Ballistae?), Monks, Crusaders.
Order: Dwarves, Halflings, Magi, (Golems?), Nagas, Genies, (Evil Sorceresses - maybe with GM Summoning and GM Order with a really small bonus, like 1 sorceress every 2 weeks?)
Chaos: Orcs, Bandits, Medusas, Minotaurs, Trolls, Evil Eyes, Nightmares, Efreet, Goblin Knights?
Death: Imps, Cerberi, Venom Spawns, Gargoyles.



U want summon squires and archers?
This is not logic for me.
Better is using charm and dyplomacy for me.
Necromancy menu dont need to be changed for me in that way!

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Postby okrane » Apr 28 2007, 14:56

Why not... you could say that because of your ability to comply with people and all local humans pick up their weapons and come fight for you...

It's not the worse logic flaw a game could have...

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Postby BrennusWhiskey » Apr 28 2007, 15:25

okrane wrote:Why not... you could say that because of your ability to comply with people and all local humans pick up their weapons and come fight for you...

It's not the worse logic flaw a game could have...


But it is not necromancy!

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Postby okrane » Apr 28 2007, 15:38

who was taling about necromancy?.... we were talking about summoning..

necromancy would and should raise undead as always...


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