Let's change the advanced classes!

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Let's change the advanced classes!

Postby Metathron » Apr 27 2007, 13:03

I think we can all agree that the advanced classes as they stand now, pretty much stink (most of them, anyhow). Because who would want to pursue most of them, they only prevent you from reaching GM in your primary skill faster by offering you level-ups from the chosen secondary skill. Actually, the main reason I usually pick to pursue an advanced class is for my hero to sport the rather cool name that comes with it. :devious:

So why not tinker with them a bit and make them more useful and desirable?

Might heroes

1. Tactics/Combat: GENERAL - All units gain +1 Morale

+1 morale? Oh, goody, well break me off a piece of that! How about we raise the morale bonus to some +3 or/and add another quirk, such as - the hero gains +5 attack/defense,

and +1 speed.

2. Tactics/Nobility: LORD COMMANDER - All units gain +2 Morale

Similar to the above, only here instead of the hero bonuses we could have some sort of nobility boost: some mines/town hall produce more resources? E.g. 10% more gold from your town and gold mine, and 50% more wood and ore from those mines.

3. Tactics/Scouting: FIELD MARSHAL - All units gain a 10% increase in Ranged and Melee Attack

I guess this is relatively solid, perhaps add a small boost to scouting (a further +2 to radius) and maybe pathfinding (5%) or seafaring (10%)?

4. Combat/Nobility: WARLORD - Hero gains +5 Melee Attack

Add +5 Defense and +1 speed, or some such. For the nobility side of it, we could improve the diplomacy skill, or make it cheaper, so that more creatures would want to join the great warlord for a smaller fee.

5. Combat/Scouting: RANGER - Hero gains the ability to shoot (if it didn't already) and gains +5 Ranged Attack

Gains +10 Ranged Attack and no ranged penalty even without the archery skill or any level of it before expert archery, and any Ranged creatures in the hero's army get a 10% bonus to their Ranged Attack.

6. Nobility/Scouting: GUILDMASTER - Hero has a certain chance of stunning an enemy in melee fighting. Stunned enemies cannot do anyting (including retaliate) for one turn

I've never seen the sense in imbuing the hero with such abilities if he didn't have combat to start with. If a combat-less hero engages in combat himself, he'll perish swiftly, stun or no stun.

Something original could be real nifty here, like the hero gets a small tribute from the nearby populace (both mines and towns) in a certain radius (double his current radius?). I'm not sure this would be easy to implement, though, so maybe a more traditional bonus from the nobility and scouting skills instead.

Magic heroes

7. Any 3 magic schools: ARCHMAGE - The effectiveness of all spells increases by 20%

I guess this one is better than most, perhaps just crank it up a notch, say to 25%? If that's not strong enough to match the other (improved) skills, we could also make each spell cost -1 spell points and give an increase in mana (20 spell points), though I'm not sure this is needed (especially the boost in spell points).

8. Order/Life: MONK - Hero gains Chaos Ward: 50% resistence to Chaos spells and 50% protection (increase to Ranged and Melee Defenses) against Chaos aligned units

This is severely lacking. In addition to the hero having Chaos Ward, maybe imbue his creatures with it as well? Increase their attack against Chaos opponents? Give the hero a guardian angel at the start of every combat (being a monk)?

9. Order/Nature: ENCHANTER - The effectiveness of all Summoning and Illusion spells is increased by 20%

Again, raise this, but I'm not sure by how much. Perhaps 25% AND a random stack of creatures (level 1-3) is summoned or illusion-ed at the start of each combat to aid the enchanter. Though perhaps this would fit the summoner better.

10. Order/Chaos: WIZARD - The cost of all spells is reduced by 2

Perhaps also increase the effectiveness of both magic schools by 20/25%?

11. Order/Death: SHADOW MAGE - Hero is constantly surrounded by a cloud which interferes with aiming, increasing Ranged Defense by 50%

Also imbues the hero's army with blur? Casts a random lvl 1-3 death spell on a random enemy target at the start of combat (not interfering with the hero's turn)?

12. Life/Nature: SUMMONER - Increases the effectiveness of the Summoning Skill: Hero can raise +20 XP more creatures per day

+50 HP? Or more, to include the griffin/waspwort/unicorn as well? Could also decrease the cost of all summoning spells by -2 (minimum of 1) and increase the effectiveness of healing spells by 20/25%?

13. Life/Chaos: HERETIC - Hero gains the ability to ignore all effects from Wards

In addition to that, the hero is granted all the level 1 spells from the other 3 schools, despite not having any skills in them. Also, the sorcery subskill, which increases the effectiveness of direct damage spells of any school, now also pertains to level 1-3 life spells (bind wound, holy word, retribution, heal, heavenly shield, holy shout, regeneration, mass healing), increasing their effectiveness.

14. Life/Death: DARK PRIEST - Hero gains Vampirism: for every 2 HP Damage to the enemy, 1 HP is recovered

In addition, the dark priest can 'sing' the spells song of peace, unholy song, mass fervor and mass sorrow.

15. Nature/Chaos: WARLOCK - The Spellpoints of the hero increase by +10 and Spellpoints regenerate +1 per day

The hero's spell points are doubled and he regenerates an additional +2 per day. The hero and any friendly spellcasters are under the effect of mana flare.

16. Nature/Death: DEMONOLOGIST - Increases the effectiveness of the Summon Imps, Summon Cerberi, Summon Venom Spawn, Summon Ice Demons, and Summon Devils spells so that they summon +50 XP more creatures

The above spells summon 20% more creatures. In addition, a stack of cerberi is summoned at the beginning of each combat to guard the demonologist.

17. Chaos/Death: LICH - Hero can temporarily age enemies: Aged enemies have their Attack reduced by 25%, their Defense reduced by 20%, and their Speed and Movement reduced by 50%

In addition to aging, the lich hero is also immune to any mind spells since he is undead. The lich drains mana from the enemy each turn, and causes any spell cast by the enemy to cost double the Spell Points. Also, the lich gains 1 Spell Point per 2 Spell Points used by the enemy

Might and Magic Heroes

18. Order/Tactics: ILLUSIONIST - The effectiveness of Illusion spells increases by 20%

Increases by 50% (or 100%?). Illusions are also affected by positive morale.

19. Order/Combat: BATTLE MAGE - The force of the spells Magic Fist and Ice Bolt are increased by 20%. Magic Fist is automatically learned (if not already known)

The force of those spells is increased by 100%. The hero gains +10 Attack/Defense, and the effects of Flight.

20. Order/Nobility: WIZARD KING - Melee attack reduces the Luck of the enemy to the minimum

Ditch the above. The hero has a greater chance to sway more enemy spellcasting creatures (of any alignment) into his army at a reduced cost. The odds increase with the hero's expertise in the diplomacy and charm subskills.

21. Order/Scouting: SEER - The radius of vision of the hero increases by +2

Radius increases by 5. Movement on sea and land increases by 20%. The town gate spell becomes instantly available.

22. Life/Tactics: CRUSADER - Hero always has maximum Morale

In addition, the hero's creatures get +3 morale/luck, +2 speed and +1 movement.

23. Life/Combat: PALADIN - Hero gains Death Ward: 50% resistence to Death spells and 50% protection (increase to Ranged and Melee Defenses) against Death aligned units

In addition, give friendly creatures death ward and increase their attack against Death aligned opponents by 20%

24. Life/Nobility: CARDINAL - Hero obtains +5% to the Resurrection skill

+50% to the Resurrection skill. An additional 50% increase of the base growth of monks (and crusaders?) in the chosen town.

25. Life/Scouting: PROPHET - Hero has Spiritual Armor which increases Ranged and Melee Defense by 25%

Hero's army (including the hero himself) is imbued with Celestial Armour, the hero's scouting radius increases by 5, and the Endurance spell is cast at the beginning of each turn at no cost to the hero.

26. Nature/Tactics: WARDEN - All units obtain a 10% increase in Ranged and Melee Defense

20% increase. Plus, 20% to summoning spells.

27. Nature/Combat: BEASTMASTER - The effectiveness of the spell Summon Wolf increases by 20%.

This is perhaps the worst advanced class ever. How about we increase the effectiveness of all level 1-2 nature summoning spells by 100%. It may sound like a lot, but it will lose it's appeal when the hero learns higher level spells. The hero's attack and defense are increased by 10.

28. Nature/Nobility: BEAST LORD - The effectiveness of the spells Summon Wolf and Summon White Tiger increase by 20%

Almost as bad as the beastmaster class. We could give the hero the effects of snake strike and giant strength. The base growth of wolves, tigers, unicorns/griffins is further increased by 50%.

29. Nature/Scouting: BARD - Hero always has maximum Luck

Grants fortune to the hero's army as well? I guess this is powerful enough. If not, we can add some more, i.e. the hero can cast song of peace, or increase the morale of his troops by +2, or something to that effect.

30. Chaos/Tactics: PYROMANCER - Hero constantly has a Fire Shield which inflicts damage on any who attempt a melee attack

The Pie Romancer. :D All of the hero's units have fire shield and bloodfrenzy, their melee and ranged attack increases by 10%.

31. Chaos/Combat: FIREGUARD - The hero gains complete immunity to fire-based spells. Fire-based attacks inflict only half damage

In addition to that, the hero's Attack/Defense increase by 10, and he gains +2 speed. Creatures in the hero's army receive a 10% bonus to their melee and ranged defense.

32. Chaos/Nobility: WITCH KING - Melee attack induces Fear: the enemy does not retaliate and flees several spaces

In addition, gold mines/town halls produce 25% more gold, out of fear of the witch king's reprisal. Direct damage spells do 25% more damage.

33. Chaos/Scouting: FIRE DIVINER - The effectiveness of all fire-based spells increases by 20%

...by 100%. (Too much?) The hero and his army receive only 50% damage from fire-based spells and enemies with a fire attack.

34. Death/Tactics: REAVER - Hero constantly has Bloodlust (+25% Damage)

In addition, the hero's army gains 10% to their attack and defense, and the effects of poison and plague are doubled.

35. Death/Combat: ASSASSIN - The Speed and Movement of the hero are increased by +3

In addition, the hero gains +10 to his Attack and Defense. At the beginning of each combat, mass curse and mass weakness are cast.

36. Death/Nobility: DARK LORD - Melee attack reduces the Morale of the enemy to the minimum

Nobility further increases the growth of death creatures: imps and skeletons receive 100% growth, cerberi/ghosts 50%. Raise spells (Skeletons, ghosts, vampires, Animate Dead, Death Call) bring back 50% more creatures.

37. Death/Scouting: NINJA - The weapon of the hero becomes poisoned: the posioned enemy takes damage every round from the time of injury until the end of combat

Also, the hero's radius increases by +2 and the Stealth skill gives twice as much experience, and the hero's movement increases by 10% on land and sea. At the beginning of each combat round, the spell Life Drain is cast (if there are Life or Nature opponents present) at no cost to the ninja.

Phew, this was exhausting! And since all of those were off the top of my head, some of my propositions are bound to be over/under-powered, so your feedback is more than appreciated.

Let's make the advanced classes useful, fun and unique!
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Postby Le_Faucheur » Apr 27 2007, 17:22

1. Tactics/Combat: GENERAL - All units gain +1 Morale

this one is ok

2. Tactics/Nobility: LORD COMMANDER - All units gain +2 Morale

good one

3. Tactics/Scouting: FIELD MARSHAL - All units gain a 10% increase in Ranged and Melee Attack

ok one

4. Combat/Nobility: WARLORD - Hero gains +5 Melee Attack

+10 to melee attack. good in early game.

5. Combat/Scouting: RANGER - Hero gains the ability to shoot (if it didn't already) and gains +5 Ranged Attack

+10 in ranged attac. good in early game.

6. Nobility/Scouting: GUILDMASTER -
ignore 66% of the magic resistance of the enemy? that's bad, he isn't even spellcaster...
maybe a boost in diplomacy/charm?

Magic heroes

7. Any 3 magic schools: ARCHMAGE - The effectiveness of all spells increases by 20%

actually it's +10% for death and nature, and +35% for other magic if I remember well. I may have post it in the thread about spells.
anyway it's pretty good.

8. Order/Life: MONK - Hero gains Chaos Ward: 50% resistence to Chaos

ok one

9. Order/Nature: ENCHANTER - The effectiveness of all Summoning and Illusion spells is increased by 20%

ok one

10. Order/Chaos: WIZARD - The cost of all spells is reduced by 2

spells are pretty cheap in that game, but it's not bad. or maybe he can increase cost of spells for the enemies?

11. Order/Death: SHADOW MAGE - Hero is constantly surrounded by a cloud which interferes with aiming, increasing Ranged Defense by 50%

not that powerful. his attack could steal enchantments?

12. Life/Nature: SUMMONER - Increases the effectiveness of the Summoning Skill: Hero can raise +20 XP more creatures per day

don't know how powerful it is

13. Life/Chaos: HERETIC - Hero gains the ability to ignore all effects from Wards

really average. still nice against titans.

14. Life/Death: DARK PRIEST - Hero gains Vampirism: for every 2 HP Damage to the enemy, 1 HP is recovered

not too bad, except spellcasters suck in melee

15. Nature/Chaos: WARLOCK - The Spellpoints of the hero increase by +10 and Spellpoints regenerate +1 per day

I think it's 20 pts and +3 per day. nice one, but like I said, spells are cheap.

16. Nature/Death: DEMONOLOGIST -

awesome one

17. Chaos/Death: LICH - Hero can temporarily age enemies: Aged enemies have their Attack reduced by 25%, their Defense reduced by 20%, and their Speed and Movement reduced by 50%

actually the lich is undead. pretty bad one. could get a boost in necromancy.

Might and Magic Heroes

18. Order/Tactics: ILLUSIONIST - The effectiveness of Illusion spells increases by 20%

ok one, phantom image is very powerful for its cost.

19. Order/Combat: BATTLE MAGE - The force of the spells Magic Fist and Ice Bolt are increased by 20%. Magic Fist is automatically learned (if not already known)

pretty bad. magic fist could ignore magic resistance, and both need to be greatly boosted.

20. Order/Nobility: WIZARD KING - Melee attack reduces the Luck of the enemy to the minimum

ok one.

21. Order/Scouting: SEER - The radius of vision of the hero increases by +2

ok one. maybe +3 would be better.

22. Life/Tactics: CRUSADER - Hero always has maximum Morale

good one.

23. Life/Combat: PALADIN - Hero gains Death Ward: 50% resistence to Death spells and 50% protection (increase to Ranged and Melee Defenses) against Death aligned units

ok one.

24. Life/Nobility: CARDINAL - Hero obtains +5% to the Resurrection skill

I think it's +15%. very good one in equilibris.

25. Life/Scouting: PROPHET - Hero has Spiritual Armor which increases Ranged and Melee Defense by 25%

very average. that magic shield who increase heroes' HP would be better

26. Nature/Tactics: WARDEN - All units obtain a 10% increase in Ranged and Melee Defense

ok one

27. Nature/Combat: BEASTMASTER - The effectiveness of the spell Summon Wolf increases by 20%.

sucky one. the hero could have the ability to summon 2 stacks instead of one.

28. Nature/Nobility: BEAST LORD - The effectiveness of the spells Summon Wolf and Summon White Tiger increase by 20%

sucky one. yes +100% would be good. but in 1 stack this time.

29. Nature/Scouting: BARD - Hero always has maximum Luck

good one

30. Chaos/Tactics: PYROMANCER - Hero constantly has a Fire Shield which inflicts damage on any who attempt a melee attack

sucky one. maybe this one should get the guildmaster ability (-66% to magic resistance)

31. Chaos/Combat: FIREGUARD - The hero gains complete immunity to fire-based spells. Fire-based attacks inflict only half damage

ok one.

32. Chaos/Nobility: WITCH KING - Melee attack induces Fear: the enemy does not retaliate and flees several spaces

ok one

33. Chaos/Scouting: FIRE DIVINER - The effectiveness of all fire-based spells increases by 20%

ok one

34. Death/Tactics: REAVER - Hero constantly has Bloodlust (+25% Damage)

not to useful for a tactician/spellcaster. aditionnaly blessed with fire aura.
or maybe his melee attack can be a free sparks spell.

35. Death/Combat: ASSASSIN - The Speed and Movement of the hero are increased by +3

ok one

36. Death/Nobility: DARK LORD - Melee attack reduces the Morale of the enemy to the minimum

ok one

37. Death/Scouting: NINJA - The weapon of the hero becomes poisoned: the posioned enemy takes damage every round from the time of injury until the end of combat

The ninja casts random harmful spells when attacking. good one.

also the idea of improving classes by gaining habilities like with Demonologist is nice.

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Postby Metathron » Apr 27 2007, 17:49

I take it you think most of the existing classes are ok as they are, and that you disagree with my suggestions? I might have gone a bit over the top with them, but I still think they are far more interesting than the existing ones, which hardly contribute anything to the game.

I was trying to engineer both classes into the advanced class and make each class as unique as possible, rather than the awfully dull 'Class X gives you 5 melee attack; class Y gives you 10 Melee Attack; Class A gives your army 10% defense; Class B gives your army 10% attack'.

With the existing classes there is hardly any reason to hurry towards becoming a certain class, because the advantages of the majority of classes are puny at best, and they will distract your hero from reaching a desired skill by offering unnecessary subskills at level-up. If each class was really unique, we would not only add more character to the game (and compensate for the lack of hero specials from HoMM III and V) but also make the classes substantially powerful, something well worth aspiring towards.

6. Nobility/Scouting: GUILDMASTER -
ignore 66% of the magic resistance of the enemy? that's bad, he isn't even spellcaster...


Umm...Am I missing something? AFAIK, the guildmaster has Stun.

7. Any 3 magic schools: ARCHMAGE - The effectiveness of all spells increases by 20%

actually it's +10% for death and nature, and +35% for other magic if I remember well. I may have post it in the thread about spells.


Really??? Where does that come from? And why such a distinction?

20. Order/Nobility: WIZARD KING - Melee attack reduces the Luck of the enemy to the minimum

ok one.


I don't know how you think this one is ok. I think it's pretty abysmal. Having no combat capabilities by default, a Wizard King will want to stay in the wings most of the time. Striking most enemies will result in his death, unless he has a potion of immortality, but even then I don't think the 1000 gold pieces are worth casting misfortune on an enemy stack. A wizard king's role is to support his troops in combat with manipulative magic and to contribute to his kingdom via the passive skill of nobility.

Ah well, let's see what comments others will make.
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Postby okrane » Apr 27 2007, 22:05

What I would like to see - unlikely though - is making the class abilities level dependant.
This way it will bring a good innovation to this game, and remind everyone of heroes 3 and 5 where the abilities improved with level...
I will comment just on those that are not ok:

7. Any 3 magic schools: ARCHMAGE - The effectiveness of all spells increases by 20%

This one I think it should be 25%... just a personal preference of buffing this since 3 magic schools is hard to get.

11. Order/Death: SHADOW MAGE - Hero is constantly surrounded by a cloud which interferes with aiming, increasing Ranged Defense by 50%

This should be buffed - I life your idea Le Faucheur - don't know if it's implementable.

13. Life/Chaos: HERETIC - Hero gains the ability to ignore all effects from Wards

This should be buffed, as Life-Chaos is hard to get and it works against very few things - maybe a fire attack, an extra magic mirror...

19. Order/Combat: BATTLE MAGE - The force of the spells Magic Fist and Ice Bolt are increased by 20%. Magic Fist is automatically learned (if not already known)

This sucks... Maybe a frost attack or something...

20. Order/Nobility: WIZARD KING - Melee attack reduces the Luck of the enemy to the minimum

sucks because the hero has to be melee... if the ranged attack could also cast misfortune it would be fine

21. Order/Scouting: SEER - The radius of vision of the hero increases by +2

+3 would be indeed better because I don't see much use to this...

25. Life/Scouting: PROPHET - Hero has Spiritual Armor which increases Ranged and Melee Defense by 25%

I would increase movement on the map with this.

27. Nature/Combat: BEASTMASTER - The effectiveness of the spell Summon Wolf increases by 20%.

Lame. nuff said. Maybe a permanent giant strength?

28. Nature/Nobility: BEAST LORD - The effectiveness of the spells Summon Wolf and Summon White Tiger increase by 20%

Lame again. Maybe a bonus to all summons... like 10%?

30. Chaos/Tactics: PYROMANCER - Hero constantly has a Fire Shield which inflicts damage on any who attempt a melee attack

Worthless. Maybe in addition a fiery attack, or the ability to cast an improved aura of flame adding huge damage to creatures

34. Death/Tactics: REAVER - Hero constantly has Bloodlust (+25% Damage)

weak.... dont know how to improve... maybe permanent poison attack in addition...

36. Death/Nobility: DARK LORD - Melee attack reduces the Morale of the enemy to the minimum

see witch king

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Postby Galactygon » Apr 28 2007, 0:26

What about allowing the player to choose which advanced class (s)he wishes to take if there is more than a single option.

For example, having M Order Magic, E Death Magic, and A Chaos Magic should allow the player to choose whether (s)he wishes to become an Archmage, a Wizard, a Lich, or a Shadow Mage.
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It would be nice if bonuses given by advanced skills would be level-based, and something more interesting (or unique) than a spell applied to the hero at the beginning combat.

An example might be Holy Word & Holy Shout cast by a Monk being empowered by a factor of 2. Or allowing the latter 2 spells to be used on Chaos-aligned creatures offensively.
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Postby Le_Faucheur » Apr 28 2007, 1:29

I said, like someone else in this forum, that those capacity could improve, when the hero improve the skills that make the combo.
that way that would be really interesting.

also I think dark lord and wizard king can cast their spell with a ranged attack. in the next equilibris the flaming arrow should be a minor artifact, so you might get something pretty cool.

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Postby HodgePodge » Apr 28 2007, 2:04

Metathron wrote:
6. Nobility/Scouting: GUILDMASTER -
ignore 66% of the magic resistance of the enemy? that's bad, he isn't even spellcaster...


Umm...Am I missing something? AFAIK, the guildmaster has Stun.

The Guildmaster has been updated in Equilibris to ignore enemies' Magic Resistance; but as you say, the Guildmaster isn't a Magic Hero (yet) so this updated ability doesn't help too much until your Guildmaster gets some Magic … and that usually takes awhile.
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Postby okrane » Apr 28 2007, 8:35

Le_Faucheur wrote:I said, like someone else in this forum, that those capacity could improve, when the hero improve the skills that make the combo.
that way that would be really interesting.


I said it should improve with the level of the hero.

But I second this one too... we could have something like:
For Ranger (for example)
Basic Combat + Basic Scouting ( = factor of 2) => + 4 ranged attack
Adv Combat + Basic Scouting ( = factor of 3) => + 6 ranged attack
...
Expert Combat + Adv Scouting ( = factor of 5) =>(u guessed it) 2*factor = +10 ranged attack
...
GM Combat + GM Scouting ( = factor of 10) => +20 ranged attack

and all other intermediate steps.

also I think dark lord and wizard king can cast their spell with a ranged attack.


+1

in the next equilibris the flaming arrow should be a minor artifact, so you might get something pretty cool


No way hose... it's a really strong artifact, nowhere near the minor ones. It could harly be a major, but a minor in no case.

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Re: Let's change the advanced classes!

Postby Siegfried » Apr 28 2007, 9:07

Nice :)
Metathron wrote:1. Tactics/Combat: GENERAL - All units gain +1 Morale

+1 morale? Oh, goody, well break me off a piece of that! How about we raise the morale bonus to some +3 or/and add another quirk, such as - the hero gains +5 attack/defense,

and +1 speed.

A general should stand for morale and general improvements for his troops. So i agree with the advanced morale bonus, but not with the hero bonus. I'd say:
+2 morale + 10% per hero level
+ 1 speed + 10% per hero level.

Metathron wrote:2. Tactics/Nobility: LORD COMMANDER - All units gain +2 Morale

Similar to the above, only here instead of the hero bonuses we could have some sort of nobility boost: some mines/town hall produce more resources? E.g. 10% more gold from your town and gold mine, and 50% more wood and ore from those mines.

Agreed. Mostly. I'd preserve a static morale or speed bonus and add a level dependent production bonus. Something like increasing the creature and resources production by another 1% per level. So a lord commander of level 50 would increase creature production by 100% (GM nobility 50% plus 50% for level 50). Same for resources, and maybe similar for diplomacy.

Metathron wrote:3. Tactics/Scouting: FIELD MARSHAL - All units gain a 10% increase in Ranged and Melee Attack

I guess this is relatively solid, perhaps add a small boost to scouting (a further +2 to radius) and maybe pathfinding (5%) or seafaring (10%)?

Agreed. Add some level dependent boost to scouting and to personal melee.

Metathron wrote:4. Combat/Nobility: WARLORD - Hero gains +5 Melee Attack

Add +5 Defense and +1 speed, or some such. For the nobility side of it, we could improve the diplomacy skill, or make it cheaper, so that more creatures would want to join the great warlord for a smaller fee.

Again i'd add a level dependent part. Something like another point in melee, defense and speed for every 10 levels.

Metathron wrote:5. Combat/Scouting: RANGER - Hero gains the ability to shoot (if it didn't already) and gains +5 Ranged Attack

Gains +10 Ranged Attack and no ranged penalty even without the archery skill or any level of it before expert archery, and any Ranged creatures in the hero's army get a 10% bonus to their Ranged Attack.

I would not add boni for army, but for hero only. And not a static bonus, but a level dependent bonus. Something like +5 ranged attack + 1 ranged attack per 10 levels.

Metathron wrote:6. Nobility/Scouting: GUILDMASTER - Hero has a certain chance of stunning an enemy in melee fighting. Stunned enemies cannot do anyting (including retaliate) for one turn

I've never seen the sense in imbuing the hero with such abilities if he didn't have combat to start with. If a combat-less hero engages in combat himself, he'll perish swiftly, stun or no stun.

Something original could be real nifty here, like the hero gets a small tribute from the nearby populace (both mines and towns) in a certain radius (double his current radius?). I'm not sure this would be easy to implement, though, so maybe a more traditional bonus from the nobility and scouting skills instead.

Agreed. Again i'd add a level dependent component here. So basically each owned dwelling and each owned mine should contribute an additional small amount of creatures and resources, amount depending on level. Something like the level in percent additional growth/resource.

Metathron wrote:7. Any 3 magic schools: ARCHMAGE - The effectiveness of all spells increases by 20%

I guess this one is better than most, perhaps just crank it up a notch, say to 25%? If that's not strong enough to match the other (improved) skills, we could also make each spell cost -1 spell points and give an increase in mana (20 spell points), though I'm not sure this is needed (especially the boost in spell points).

Again i'd prefere to add a level dependent boost to it. Let's say 20% boost + 1% boost per level.

Metathron wrote:8. Order/Life: MONK - Hero gains Chaos Ward: 50% resistence to Chaos spells and 50% protection (increase to Ranged and Melee Defenses) against Chaos aligned units

This is severely lacking. In addition to the hero having Chaos Ward, maybe imbue his creatures with it as well? Increase their attack against Chaos opponents? Give the hero a guardian angel at the start of every combat (being a monk)?

Hmmm, the guardian angel is already for the death/life magic combo. Mass chaos ward would be nice. Something level dependent is missing. What about a 10% + 1% per level boost to all life and order magic?

Metathron wrote:9. Order/Nature: ENCHANTER - The effectiveness of all Summoning and Illusion spells is increased by 20%

Again, raise this, but I'm not sure by how much. Perhaps 25% AND a random stack of creatures (level 1-3) is summoned or illusion-ed at the start of each combat to aid the enchanter. Though perhaps this would fit the summoner better.

Again i'd not raise it statically, but dependent on level. Something like 20% + 1% per level on all summoning and illusions spells. And what about summoning an illusion of himself at the beginning of the battle?

Metathron wrote:10. Order/Chaos: WIZARD - The cost of all spells is reduced by 2

Perhaps also increase the effectiveness of both magic schools by 20/25%?

Again not statically, but level dependent. Not 20%, but say 10% + 1% per level.

Metathron wrote:11. Order/Death: SHADOW MAGE - Hero is constantly surrounded by a cloud which interferes with aiming, increasing Ranged Defense by 50%

Also imbues the hero's army with blur? Casts a random lvl 1-3 death spell on a random enemy target at the start of combat (not interfering with the hero's turn)?

For death magic it would fit better if some of those ranged attack lowering clouds where placed at the beginning of the battle. The number of clouds should depend on level. Places may be random.

Metathron wrote:12. Life/Nature: SUMMONER - Increases the effectiveness of the Summoning Skill: Hero can raise +20 XP more creatures per day

+50 HP? Or more, to include the griffin/waspwort/unicorn as well? Could also decrease the cost of all summoning spells by -2 (minimum of 1) and increase the effectiveness of healing spells by 20/25%?

Again, not statically. +20XP + 1XP per level.
Metathron wrote:13. Life/Chaos: HERETIC - Hero gains the ability to ignore all effects from Wards

In addition to that, the hero is granted all the level 1 spells from the other 3 schools, despite not having any skills in them. Also, the sorcery subskill, which increases the effectiveness of direct damage spells of any school, now also pertains to level 1-3 life spells (bind wound, holy word, retribution, heal, heavenly shield, holy shout, regeneration, mass healing), increasing their effectiveness.

Hmm, some level dependent component is missing. What about a 10% + 1% per level boost to all life/nature/chaos spells?

Metathron wrote:14. Life/Death: DARK PRIEST - Hero gains Vampirism: for every 2 HP Damage to the enemy, 1 HP is recovered

In addition, the dark priest can 'sing' the spells song of peace, unholy song, mass fervor and mass sorrow.

Good idea, but level dependent component missing. I would add some HP recovering from dealt damage dependent on level. Not sure about the numbers, though.

Metathron wrote:15. Nature/Chaos: WARLOCK - The Spellpoints of the hero increase by +10 and Spellpoints regenerate +1 per day

The hero's spell points are doubled and he regenerates an additional +2 per day. The hero and any friendly spellcasters are under the effect of mana flare.

Mana flare affects all, so maybe not that good idea. I'd recommend: Spell points increase by 20% + 1% per level and spellpoints regenerate with 1 +1 per level per day.

Metathron wrote:16. Nature/Death: DEMONOLOGIST - Increases the effectiveness of the Summon Imps, Summon Cerberi, Summon Venom Spawn, Summon Ice Demons, and Summon Devils spells so that they summon +50 XP more creatures

The above spells summon 20% more creatures. In addition, a stack of cerberi is summoned at the beginning of each combat to guard the demonologist.

Again i'd prefere a level dependent component. So f.ex. +50XP + 1XP per level.
Metathron wrote:17. Chaos/Death: LICH - Hero can temporarily age enemies: Aged enemies have their Attack reduced by 25%, their Defense reduced by 20%, and their Speed and Movement reduced by 50%

In addition to aging, the lich hero is also immune to any mind spells since he is undead. The lich drains mana from the enemy each turn, and causes any spell cast by the enemy to cost double the Spell Points. Also, the lich gains 1 Spell Point per 2 Spell Points used by the enemy

Amount of mana (and maybe additional HP) should be level dependent.

Metathron wrote:18. Order/Tactics: ILLUSIONIST - The effectiveness of Illusion spells increases by 20%

Increases by 50% (or 100%?). Illusions are also affected by positive morale.
I'd recomment 20% + 2% per level illusion spell boost.

Metathron wrote:19. Order/Combat: BATTLE MAGE - The force of the spells Magic Fist and Ice Bolt are increased by 20%. Magic Fist is automatically learned (if not already known)

The force of those spells is increased by 100%. The hero gains +10 Attack/Defense, and the effects of Flight.

Again level dependent: 20% + 2% per level boost on these spells. Additionally might call giant strength on the mage himself at start of battle.

Metathron wrote:20. Order/Nobility: WIZARD KING - Melee attack reduces the Luck of the enemy to the minimum

Ditch the above. The hero has a greater chance to sway more enemy spellcasting creatures (of any alignment) into his army at a reduced cost. The odds increase with the hero's expertise in the diplomacy and charm subskills.

Agreed. But let it increase with level too.

Metathron wrote:21. Order/Scouting: SEER - The radius of vision of the hero increases by +2

Radius increases by 5. Movement on sea and land increases by 20%. The town gate spell becomes instantly available.

Increase radius by 1 per 5 levels. I'd not improve movement. I'd cast precision on friendly shooters (the shooters could "see" better). Maybe add some magic resistance.

Metathron wrote:22. Life/Tactics: CRUSADER - Hero always has maximum Morale

In addition, the hero's creatures get +3 morale/luck, +2 speed and +1 movement.

Again level dependent: Creatures get +1 morale/luck/speed/movement for every 10 levels plus a 1% per level attack and defense against death creatures.

Metathron wrote:23. Life/Combat: PALADIN - Hero gains Death Ward: 50% resistence to Death spells and 50% protection (increase to Ranged and Melee Defenses) against Death aligned units

In addition, give friendly creatures death ward and increase their attack against Death aligned opponents by 20%

Increase attack/defense against death creatures by 10% + 1% per level.

Metathron wrote:24. Life/Nobility: CARDINAL - Hero obtains +5% to the Resurrection skill

+50% to the Resurrection skill. An additional 50% increase of the base growth of monks (and crusaders?) in the chosen town.

+5% +1% per level resurrection skill + 2% life creature growth in town where the hero is governor.

Metathron wrote:25. Life/Scouting: PROPHET - Hero has Spiritual Armor which increases Ranged and Melee Defense by 25%

Hero's army (including the hero himself) is imbued with Celestial Armour, the hero's scouting radius increases by 5, and the Endurance spell is cast at the beginning of each turn at no cost to the hero.

Scouting radius increase by 1 per 5 levels, hero has spiritual armor, shooters get precision and melee creatures get speed.

Metathron wrote:26. Nature/Tactics: WARDEN - All units obtain a 10% increase in Ranged and Melee Defense

20% increase. Plus, 20% to summoning spells.

10% + 1% per 2 levels.
Metathron wrote:27. Nature/Combat: BEASTMASTER - The effectiveness of the spell Summon Wolf increases by 20%.

This is perhaps the worst advanced class ever. How about we increase the effectiveness of all level 1-2 nature summoning spells by 100%. It may sound like a lot, but it will lose it's appeal when the hero learns higher level spells. The hero's attack and defense are increased by 10.

Add "giant strength" to all and boost summoning spells by 10% + 1% per level.
Metathron wrote:28. Nature/Nobility: BEAST LORD - The effectiveness of the spells Summon Wolf and Summon White Tiger increase by 20%

Almost as bad as the beastmaster class. We could give the hero the effects of snake strike and giant strength. The base growth of wolves, tigers, unicorns/griffins is further increased by 50%.

like above. But should be somewhat different. What about an increase of the nobility skill, level dependent?

Metathron wrote:29. Nature/Scouting: BARD - Hero always has maximum Luck

Grants fortune to the hero's army as well? I guess this is powerful enough. If not, we can add some more, i.e. the hero can cast song of peace, or increase the morale of his troops by +2, or something to that effect.

Increase all luck by 2 per 5 levels and morale by 1 per 5 levels.

Metathron wrote:30. Chaos/Tactics: PYROMANCER - Hero constantly has a Fire Shield which inflicts damage on any who attempt a melee attack

The Pie Romancer. :D All of the hero's units have fire shield and bloodfrenzy, their melee and ranged attack increases by 10%.

Hero gets fire shield and all units gain 10% + 1% per 5 levels attack (both ranged and melee).

Metathron wrote:31. Chaos/Combat: FIREGUARD - The hero gains complete immunity to fire-based spells. Fire-based attacks inflict only half damage

In addition to that, the hero's Attack/Defense increase by 10, and he gains +2 speed. Creatures in the hero's army receive a 10% bonus to their melee and ranged defense.

attack (only) boost by 1 per 5 levels for hero and 1 per 10 levels for creatures.

Metathron wrote:32. Chaos/Nobility: WITCH KING - Melee attack induces Fear: the enemy does not retaliate and flees several spaces

In addition, gold mines/town halls produce 25% more gold, out of fear of the witch king's reprisal. Direct damage spells do 25% more damage.

Percentual boos lower + level dependent component.
Metathron wrote:33. Chaos/Scouting: FIRE DIVINER - The effectiveness of all fire-based spells increases by 20%

...by 100%. (Too much?) The hero and his army receive only 50% damage from fire-based spells and enemies with a fire attack.

Boost by 20% + 1% per level.

Metathron wrote:34. Death/Tactics: REAVER - Hero constantly has Bloodlust (+25% Damage)

In addition, the hero's army gains 10% to their attack and defense, and the effects of poison and plague are doubled.

army gain 1% per level attack, and poison and plague are boosted by 2% per level.

Metathron wrote:35. Death/Combat: ASSASSIN - The Speed and Movement of the hero are increased by +3

In addition, the hero gains +10 to his Attack and Defense. At the beginning of each combat, mass curse and mass weakness are cast.

Increase speed and movement by +3 + 1 per 10 levels, increase attack and defense by 1 per 5 levels. Add a 20% chance for curse or weakness to every attack.

Metathron wrote:36. Death/Nobility: DARK LORD - Melee attack reduces the Morale of the enemy to the minimum

Nobility further increases the growth of death creatures: imps and skeletons receive 100% growth, cerberi/ghosts 50%. Raise spells (Skeletons, ghosts, vampires, Animate Dead, Death Call) bring back 50% more creatures.

Increase nobility effects by 10% + 1% per level.

Metathron wrote:37. Death/Scouting: NINJA - The weapon of the hero becomes poisoned: the posioned enemy takes damage every round from the time of injury until the end of combat

Also, the hero's radius increases by +2 and the Stealth skill gives twice as much experience, and the hero's movement increases by 10% on land and sea. At the beginning of each combat round, the spell Life Drain is cast (if there are Life or Nature opponents present) at no cost to the ninja.

increase land and combat movement by 1 per 10 levels.

Just my ideas.

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Postby okrane » Apr 28 2007, 10:39

My question to the mods is: Is it possible to make the class bonuses level dependant?

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Postby Le_Faucheur » Apr 28 2007, 12:22

ok, more details :

Might heroes

1. Tactics/Combat: GENERAL - All units gain +1 Morale

basic combat and tactics : current effect
advanced : +1morale +1 speed
expert : +1 morale +1 speed +1 movement
master : +1 morale +2 speed +1 movement
grand master : +1morale +2 speed +2 movement

2. Tactics/Nobility: LORD COMMANDER - All units gain +2 Morale

basic : +1 morale
advanced : +2 morale
expert : +3 morale
master : +4 morale
grand master : +5 morale

3. Tactics/Scouting: FIELD MARSHAL - All units gain a 10% increase in Ranged and Melee Attack

basic : +5%
advanced : +10%
expert : +15%
master : +20%
grand master : +25%

4. Combat/Nobility: WARLORD - Hero gains +5 Melee Attack

basic : +5
advanced : +10
expert : +15
master : +20
grand master : +25

5. Combat/Scouting: RANGER - Hero gains the ability to shoot (if it didn't already) and gains +5 Ranged Attack

basic : +5
advanced : +10
expert : +15
master : +20
grand master : +25

6. Nobility/Scouting: GUILDMASTER -

basic : +10% to charm and diplomacy
advanced : +20% to charm and diplomacy
expert : +30% to charm and diplomacy
master : +40% to charm and diplomacy
grand master : +50% to charm and diplomacy

Magic heroes

7. Any 3 magic schools: ARCHMAGE - The effectiveness of all spells increases by 20%

basic : +10%
advanced : +20%
expert : +30%
master : +40%
grand master : +50%

8. Order/Life: MONK - Hero gains Chaos Ward: 50% resistence to Chaos spells and 50% protection (increase to Ranged and Melee Defenses) against Chaos aligned units

basic : all friendly units deal +10% damages on chaos units
advanced : all friendly units deal +20% damages on chaos units
expert : all friendly units deal +30% damages on chaos units
master : all friendly units deal +40% damages on chaos units
grand master : all friendly units deal +50% damages on chaos units

9. Order/Nature: ENCHANTER - The effectiveness of all Summoning and Illusion spells is increased by 20%

basic : +10%
advanced : +20%
expert : +30%
master : +40%
grand master : +50%

10. Order/Chaos: WIZARD - The cost of all spells is reduced by 2 for the hero and every friendly units and hero

basic : -1
advanced : -2
expert : -3
master : -4
grand master : -5

11. Order/Death: SHADOW MAGE - Hero is constantly surrounded by a cloud which interferes with aiming, increasing Ranged Defense by 50%, he is also surrounded by a spell of fog (chaos level 1)

basic : the fog has the normal size
advanced : the size of a fireball
expert : the size of an inferno
master : bigger
grand master : bigger

12. Life/Nature: SUMMONER - Increases the effectiveness of the Summoning Skill: Hero can raise +20 XP more creatures per day

basic : +10 XP
advanced : +20 XP
expert : +30 XP
master : +40 XP
grand master : +50 XP

13. Life/Chaos: HERETIC - Hero gains the ability to ignore all effects from Wards

basic : damages from direct damage spells are increased by 5%
advanced : damages from direct damage spells are increased by 10%
expert : damages from direct damage spells are increased by 15%
master : damages from direct damage spells are increased by 20%
grand master : damages from direct damage spells are increased by 25%

14. Life/Death: DARK PRIEST - Hero gains Vampirism: for every 2 HP Damage to the enemy, 1 HP is recovered.

basic : +10% to animate dead, call of death and resurrection
advanced : +20% to animate dead, call of death and resurrection
expert : +30% to animate dead, call of death and resurrection
master : +40% to animate dead, call of death and resurrection
grand master : +50% to animate dead, call of death and resurrection

15. Nature/Chaos: WARLOCK - The Spellpoints of the hero increase by +10 and Spellpoints regenerate +1 per day

basic : +5 spell points +2 per day
advanced : +10 spell points +4 per day
expert : +15 spell points +6 per day
master : +20 spell points +8 per day
grand master : +25 spell points +10 per day

16. Nature/Death: DEMONOLOGIST - Increases the effectiveness of the Summon Imps, Summon Cerberi, Summon Venom Spawn, Summon Ice Demons, and Summon Devils spells so that they summon +50 XP more creatures

also implements the summoning of demons from the adventure map

17. Chaos/Death: LICH – Is undead

basic : +10% to necromancy
advanced : +20% to necromancy
expert : +30% to necromancy
master : +40% to necromancy
grand master : +50% to necromancy

Might and Magic Heroes

18. Order/Tactics: ILLUSIONIST - The effectiveness of Illusion spells increases by 20%. Hero learns illusion.

basic : +10%
advanced : +20%
expert : +30%
master : +40%
grand master : +50%

19. Order/Combat: BATTLE MAGE - The force of the spells Magic Fist and Ice Bolt are increased by 20%. Magic Fist is automatically learned (if not already known)

basic : +20% magic fist ignore 20% of the magic resistance
advanced : +40% magic fist ignore 40% of the magic resistance
expert : +60% magic fist ignore 60% of the magic resistance
master : +80% magic fist ignore 80% of the magic resistance
grand master : +100% magic fist ignore 100% of the magic resistance

20. Order/Nobility: WIZARD KING - Melee attack reduces the Luck of the enemy to the minimum

basic : current effect
advanced : every enemy units has -1 luck
expert : every enemy units has -2 luck
master : every enemy units has -3 luck
grand master : every enemy units has -4 luck

21. Order/Scouting: SEER - The radius of vision of the hero increases by +2

basic : +1 +4% movement on adventure map
advanced : +2 +8% movement on adventure map
expert : +3 +12% movement on adventure map
master : +4 +16% movement on adventure map
grand master : +5 +20% movement on adventure map

22. Life/Tactics: CRUSADER - Hero always has maximum Morale. Effects of holy word and holy shout are increased. Hero learns holy word

basic : +10%
advanced : +20%
expert : +30%
master : +40%
grand master : +50%

23. Life/Combat: PALADIN - Hero gains Death Ward: 50% resistence to Death spells and 50% protection (increase to Ranged and Melee Defenses) against Death aligned units

basic : friendly units deal 10% more damages on death units
advanced : friendly units deal 20% more damages on death units
expert : friendly units deal 30% more damages on death units
master : friendly units deal 40% more damages on death units
grand master : friendly units deal 50% more damages on death units

24. Life/Nobility: CARDINAL - Hero obtains +15% to the Resurrection skill

basic : +5%
advanced : +10%
expert : +15%
master : +20%
grand master : +25%

25. Life/Scouting: PROPHET - Hero has the divine shield. The divine shield add :

basic : 25 HP + 2 per hero level
advanced : 50 HP + 4 per hero level
expert : 75 HP + 6 per hero level
master : 100 HP + 8 per hero level
grand master : 125 HP + 10 per hero level

26. Nature/Tactics: WARDEN - All units obtain a 10% increase in Ranged and Melee Defense

basic : +5%
advanced : +10%
expert : +15%
master : +20%
grand master : +25%

27. Nature/Combat: BEASTMASTER - The effectiveness of the spell Summon Wolf increases by 20%. The power of summoning of wolves on adventure map is also increased. Hero automatically summon a stack of wolf for free at the beginning of each round and can still act after that. Hero learns summon wolves.

Basic : +20% to the spell + 8XP
advanced : +40% to the spell + 16XP
expert : +60% to the spell + 24XP
master : +80% to the spell + 32XP
grand master : +100% to the spell + 40XP

28. Nature/Nobility: BEAST LORD - The effectiveness of the spells Summon Wolf and Summon White Tiger increase by 20%. the power of summoning of wolves and tigers on adventure map is also increased. Hero learns summon wolves and summon tigers

Basic : +20% to the spell + 8XP
advanced : +40% to the spell + 16XP
expert : +60% to the spell + 24XP
master : +80% to the spell + 32XP
grand master : +100% to the spell + 40XP

29. Nature/Scouting: BARD - Hero always has maximum Luck

basic : current effect
advanced : friendly units gain +1 luck
expert : friendly units gain +2 luck
master : friendly units gain +3 luck
grand master : friendly units gain +4 luck

30. Chaos/Tactics: PYROMANCER - Hero ignores magic resistance

basic : ignore 20% of the magic resistance
advanced : ignore 40% of the magic resistance
expert : ignore 60% of the magic resistance
master : ignore 80% of the magic resistance
grand master : ignore 100% of the magic resistance

31. Chaos/Combat: FIREGUARD - The hero gains complete immunity to fire-based spells. Fire-based attacks inflict only half damage. The hero also has a fire shield. The fire shield returns :

basic : 10% of the damages received
advanced : 20% of the damages received
expert : 30% of the damages received
master : 40% of the damages received
grand master : 50% of the damages received

32. Chaos/Nobility: WITCH KING - Melee attack induces Fear: the enemy does not retaliate and flees several spaces

basic : current effect
advanced : the enemy flees further
expert : the enemy flees further
master : the enemy flees further
grand master : the enemy flees further

33. Chaos/Scouting: FIRE DIVINER - The effectiveness of all fire-based spells increases by 20%

basic : +10%
advanced : +20%
expert : +30%
master : +40%
grand master : +50%

34. Death/Tactics: REAVER - Hero constantly has Bloodlust (+25% Damage).
Hero has fire aura, and the power of the spell is increased. Hero learns fire aura.

basic : normal power (10 damages +1 per hero level)
advanced : 20 damages +2 per hero level
expert : 30 damages +3 per hero level
master : 40 damages +4 per hero level
grand master : 50 damages +5 per hero level

35. Death/Combat: ASSASSIN - The Speed and Movement of the hero are increased by +3

basic : +2
advanced : +3
expert : +4
master : +5
grand master : +6

36. Death/Nobility: DARK LORD - Melee attack reduces the Morale of the enemy to the minimum

basic : current effect
advanced : the morale of all enemy units is reduced by 1
expert : the morale of all enemy units is reduced by 2
master : the morale of all enemy units is reduced by 3
grand master : the morale of all enemy units is reduced by 4

37. Death/Scouting: NINJA – Cast a random harmful spell when attacking. Hero learns poison.

basic : +10% to plague and poison
advanced : +20% to plague and poison
expert : +30% to plague and poison
master : +40% to plague and poison
grand master : +50% to plague and poison

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Postby okrane » Apr 28 2007, 14:14

Some of these are overpowered...

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Postby Siegfried » Apr 28 2007, 14:57

Concrete numbers can (and should) be adjusted, that's not the main problem :)

There are 2 other points for critics.

1. Why should a general just get +1 morale and a lord commander a +2 morale? Not good. The benefits should be different but balanced (-> "Equilibris")

2. It would be a legal method basing the boni on skill level, but i'd prefere to base it on hero level. More simple.

So i think, first okrane is right the Equilibris team should be asked if such a thing would at all be possible. Next then we should think of what makes a specific class unique? The focus on specifying that should not be pure tactical max-out, but should well fit to what fits to his role in that fantasy world. So for example the general. This class is based on Tactics and Combat. Tactics is a skill which gives boni to the troops, while combat is a personal skill. The boni are similar, just one gives it to the troops, the other to the hero himself. For both the focus is on might and combat (as opposed to magic, economy and discovery). So what about this combination? Whatever extra bonus is granted it should be focused on might and combat. Additionally i'd base the effective number on hero level. And in sum it should give a similar number of boni as the other combinations (extended classes).

On the other hand is Tactics + Nobility (The Lord Commander). One component gives boni to the troops, the other is economical. How to combine that? I'd add only a small extra to the combat part, but something more to the economical part. What about an increase in all his nobility skills? Or you could argue that mining gives more ore, more ore gives better armory, so increase defense (and maybe attack). Diplomacy could add to motivation and so to leadership and so to morale and luck. And so on. I do not really know what would fit best, but these are the basic thoughts to be thought when redefining the extended classes.

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Postby okrane » Apr 28 2007, 15:08

as I understand boni = bonuses?

If so... I agree.
as for the Lord Commander:

A)Tactics + Nobility should add to Diplomacy iMO.
Tactics has leadership so a good leader will also be a good diplomat, right?

or

B) it could do something like reduce the morale penalty of mixing different alignments: as I said a good leader + diplomat => troops get along :D

I don't know if they can be done though...

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Postby Le_Faucheur » Apr 28 2007, 18:55

okrane wrote:Some of these are overpowered...


yeah maybe, but some were already unbalanced like demonologist, crusader or lord commander. after, it's just playing with numbers like siegfried said.

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Postby Siegfried » Apr 29 2007, 9:46

okrane wrote:as I understand boni = bonuses?

If so... I agree.

yes :)
okrane wrote:as for the Lord Commander:

A)Tactics + Nobility should add to Diplomacy iMO.
Tactics has leadership so a good leader will also be a good diplomat, right?

right. Good idea.
okrane wrote:or

B) it could do something like reduce the morale penalty of mixing different alignments: as I said a good leader + diplomat => troops get along :D

I don't know if they can be done though...


Right. Again good idea. Another idea would be to reduce recruiting costs. Like if he hat the purse of the penny pincher (i don't know the exact name). For the same reason: A good leader will be able to hire his troops for lower cost.
[IRONY]The perfect leader gets money from his troops so they are allowed to follow him[/IRONY]

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balancing

Postby Siegfried » Apr 29 2007, 9:51

For balancing issues i'd like to implement a point system. Any class which is based on two skills should get bonuses worth 3 points (just to give a number. Maybe anything between 2 and 6 points). Each point then equals a +1 in morale, speed, attack, defense or whatever, or +10% in whatever. Additionaly this should increase with 1 point per 10 levels (again just to say a number).

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Re: balancing

Postby Le_Faucheur » Apr 29 2007, 14:34

Siegfried wrote:or +10% in whatever.


it depends, +10% for magic fist isn't the same thing than +10% for all fire spells.

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Postby Siegfried » Apr 30 2007, 7:54

Maybe, yes. But order magic isn't at all that strong in direct damage spells. Perhaps you should compare +10% for hypnotize with +10% for all fire magic spells :)

You cant (and should not) equalize out anything. One of the factors that make this game fun and interesting is the difference in the factions.

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Postby Le_Faucheur » Apr 30 2007, 11:27

+10% for hypnotise means nothing.
hum yeah, not a big problem if every combo haven't the same power.
but they should at least all be useful. who goes for beastmaster for the bonus when summoning wolves? ;|


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