Equilibris creature choices

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Metathron
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Equilibris creature choices

Unread postby Metathron » 04 Apr 2007, 20:48

I would like to kickstart a discussion on what creature choices you guys make in HoMM IV Equilibris and whether they differ from the choices made in the original game.

Something like "In Equilibris, I choose the naga 50% of the time. In HoMM IV Standard, I chose the genie 90% of the time." or whatever format you feel most comfortable with.

Discussion of any further possible alterations to the creatures themselves or the dwelling requirements is also welcome.

I'll interject my thoughts later on when I sort them out. :)
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Unread postby pacobac » 04 Apr 2007, 23:03

on multiplayer game you must be faster......

so i choose nagas 90% of time (with tactical heroe, this creature is very strong !): teleport or flying naga is nice to kill enemy heroes..

i choose venom 100% (equilibris vampire are weak, expensive, undead, few growth), big creature on final battle !!

i choose crusaders 75% (strong, cheap, many)

ogremagis 50% (good equilibration), maybe they need more magic (5 to 10)

efreet 95% (fast, fly is good to kill heroes)

unicorn is cheap/ griffin is strong and fast (50%)

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Unread postby BDragon » 06 Apr 2007, 21:13

Black Dragon, Black Dragon, Black Dragon... <-- HoMM IV Standard.
Black Dragon, Black Dragon, Mega Dragon... <--- HoMM IV Wow.
Black Dragon, Mega Dragon, Orc... <-- HoMM IV Equilibris.

In equi mod the orc is stronger than in other expansions!!! :D
Ps. Black Dragon is be always with me! ;)
Last edited by BDragon on 07 Apr 2007, 18:37, edited 1 time in total.
Black Dragon...

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Unread postby BrennusWhiskey » 06 Apr 2007, 22:53

Blackies, titans, angels, phoenixes, devils, thunderbirds (?)

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Unread postby timagalant » 14 Apr 2007, 16:19

Chaos: 2nd level is tough, but I usually take medusas. In small maps I'd take nightmares (because terror is very efficienty), but usually efreeti because of their fire shield. Black dragons are a must, I can't stand hydras.

Order: I usually pick one mage and one fighter. It's usually Gold golems/Genies, but if I had just taken my medicine, I might take mages/nagas. In the 4th levels I usually take titans, but that's just because I really liked them in Heroes III.

Death: I usually play with undeads only, because of the moral penalties for mixing, and imps suck. And necromancy is a must to grow your armies. So I pick all the undeads.

Life: Ballistas rule, but they move way too little to be a part of any main army. So that's pikemen. Monks/Crusaders are pretty much dependant on what I feel like at the moment, and how many hero archers I have. On 4th level it's always angels.

Might: I never pick them, but if I random for them, it's nomads/cyclops/thunderbirds.

Nature (my favorite): It's an all flyers army, with griffins/phoenixes/mantises. Sprites if I only take 3 heroes (short maps usually). I don't use the 2nd level, so it doesn't really matter, but I usually take tigers.


We should have a thread like this for hero choices
Last edited by timagalant on 25 Apr 2007, 20:10, edited 1 time in total.

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Unread postby Siegfried » 17 Apr 2007, 18:47

Just to add to the discussion about the Genie/Naga question: That all depends. Without teleport Genies are much more valuable, with teleport (and maybe with tactics, too) Nagas are much better.

Order with teleport and Nagas is extremely useful for conquering towns: First teleport the strongest enemy shooter down from the tower directly in front of the Nagas, then after the Nagas have done their work teleport them directly to the now empty tower. You may then try similar things with the other stacks on the other 2 towers, but then teleport other strong melee stacks to the free towers. That gets down nearly every town quite fast :)

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Unread postby Le_Faucheur » 25 Apr 2007, 19:12

life :
lvl2 : most of the time, the pikeman because he is faster on the adventure map. sometimes I take the ballista if I need more fire power to get a mine for example.

Lvl3 : monk, most of the time, because it's cheaper to get the angels.

Lvl4: angel, most of the time. it doesn't matter much at the end of a game, but at the beggining, with a high speed and resurrection, the angel is way better than the champion.

ballistas and champions should get a boost

order :
lvl2 : it depends, both are good.
lvl3 : naga if I chose magi, genies if I chose golems (well, most of the time)
lvl4 : it depends, both are great too. most of the time I pick the dragon for its very high initiative.

everything is pretty good here, except nagas are too easy to get.

nature :
lvl2 : tigers, because they are cheaper
lvl3 : both are ok. I think the griffin is stronger at the end, and unicorns make the thing a bit easier at the beginning.
lvl4 : phoenix, faerie dragon would need a balance, they aren't that great when you have them, but they are especially deadly when you fight them.

elves are too expensive, griffin and unicorns may die a bit quickly, faerie dragon is a bit too weak/strong

chaos :
lvl2 : medusas, most of the time. nevertheless, minotaurs are better in the early game.
lvl3 : nightmare, they are pretty strong, and have a useful habilities. efreeti are a bit weak, and their shield is useless against the AI.
lvl4 : both are good, I prefer the hydra because it has no relataliation, and also because you can't cure the dragon.

main problem are the medusa and the efreeti. efreetis rules in H3, and I don't like them in H4...

death :
lvl2 : cerberus, a bit weak, but cheaper than the ghosts.
lvl3 : venom spawn, cause they are very powerful.
lvl4 : devil, I like his abilities. but the bone dragon is good too.

Well, I prefer demons over undead, that's why. I think the levels 2 are a bit weak.

strength :
don't know, I didn't play this castle enough

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Unread postby okrane » 25 Apr 2007, 19:39

life :
lvl2 : pikeman - ballistas are too slow

Lvl3 : Crusaders - Much more powerful than monks who use up their shots and they're worthless after

Lvl4: it depends:
if Equilibris: Angels
else Champions.
The reason is simple, In equ with the new Resurections and spells you can keep your angels alive with your hero, in previous versions Champions survive better due to first strike.



order :
lvl2 : golems all the way: good tank, good target for illusion spells early on
lvl3 : if not equilibris genies, else it's situational
lvl4 : Titans all the way. DG die, Titans don't.


nature :
lvl2 : tigers, because they are faster, and first strike
lvl3 : griffins... because of flight, movement and the snake strike abuse.
lvl4 : I don't know... fairy dragons mostly, but it also depends on the 5th level spell I get. If dragon strength or summon fairie dragon then phoenixes else dragons.

chaos :
lvl2 : medusas - priceless
lvl3 : biased. If I go for dragons I usually take efreet... for huge movement. If I go hydras I take nightmares which are better overall
lvl4 : It depends... dragons are good on small maps, whereas hydras rule if you get some order spells.

death :
lvl2 : If I can get vampires fast (ie rich map) I go ghosts (for their movement on the map) if not cerberi are good early game.
lvl3 : Usually Vampires.
lvl4 : Bone Dragons... devils die faster... Still I might consider devils if I fight life or death for example.

might :
lvl2: Harpies - they survive pretty good
lvl3: Cyclops... after equi I might consider Ogre Magi...
lvl4: thunderbirds usually

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Unread postby Metathron » 27 Apr 2007, 15:54

Life:

Both the ballista and pikemen are good for their levels. I will pick the ballista in a smaller map, or when I intend to leave them behind, as they are clearly superior for castle defence, perched atop one of the towers.

Pre-eq, I picked the monks much more often because firing at the enemy from afar is always good. After equilibris, I pick the crusaders about 40% of the time, since they gained HP and speed and are actually excellent units.

Angels seem to be most people's favourite, and while I agree they are solid, I still prefer the champions, whose first strike + jousting is an excellent combo that really ensures their duration on the battlefield. So I'd say it's about 70% in favour of the champs.

Order:

Both are great. The magi are more diverse though, what with the ability to cast poison on enemies who tend to lurk behind castle walls with no intention of coming out. 55% - 45%: Magi - Gold Golems

Pre-equilibris: 90% genies - 10% naga
Post-eq: 50% - 50%
The genies were way overpowered before. After Eq. the nagas gained a much needed boost in speed and a three-headed attack to boot. Both are great units.

60% Titan - 40% Dragon Golem; Precision is too easily accesible to be ignored...

Death:

80% Ghosts - 20% Cerberi; Not that cerberi are bad units, they have two very good specials, but they have low hp and the AI tends to make a target of them often. The ghosts are probably the only unit (barring level 1s) whose death I don't regret, i.e. I split them up and send them to harass and cripple the enemy with their kickass special. Then it's open season with your level 3 and 4 units.

Even a few vampires in your army will help you fight against huge odds, due to their life drain ability. Objectively, I think the vampire is a better unit than the venom spawn, probably the best level 3, but I will still pick them roughly equally, cause the venom spawn ain't bad and Death badly needs a shooter anyway. Plus it's fun to target enemies with poison and just watch them slowly die away. :devil:

60% Bone Dragon - 40% Devil: I prefer the dragon for its physical prowess and limited no-retaliation ability. The devil makes up for it with greater maneuverability and the ability to summon sturdy reinforcements.

Chaos:

While the minotaur has an annoying special that kicks in a lot of the time (though, truth be told, seems to happen far more often for the computer than for you :(), the medusa as the only shooter and with great abilities to boot is just too good to pass by. 80% - 20% in favour of the medusa.

As an animal lover, I've always been biased towards the nightmare, with its 110 hp and terror ability. The efreet is better in one aspect IMHO, and that is fighting shooters/casters, since you can bring it over in two, sometimes one move. Their fire shield ability stinks, as far as I'm concerned, because you have to take damage for it to work, which isn't something I'm mad about.

60% Hydra - 40% Blackie: Knowing that the blackie's magic immunity is a double-edged sword, I am still more annoyed at the fact that I can't cast beneficial spells on it, than I am pleased about the enemy's inability to cast harmful spells on it. If only there was a way of putting first strike on the dragons I'd pick them over the hydras anytime, but this way, when even a single one dies, it's bang-head-against-wall time. On the other hand, bloodlust, haste, slayer, cat reflexes, first strike...sit so well on the hydra. And if you can get your hands on bless somehow... :creative:

Nature:

Comparing them in isolation, I prefer the tiger by leaps and bounds. However, the battlefield usually gets crowded with walkers/flyers who all need to get in to those first rows of combat to reach the enemy, so the elves are more thankful in this respect, sitting in the back rows shooting away. So the ratio is something like 55% Elves - 45% White Tigers.

I'm a bit biased towards the unicorn, but I actually pick both of them the same amount of times. Putting snake strike on those griffins, and a couple other offensive boosters like bless or bloodlust is one of the finest tactics out there, just send them headlong into battle and kick back from there on out...

I prefer the phoenix, because nature has some great booster spells, but I will pick the faerie just as often cause its dwelling is relatively easily accessible. The dragons are better at sieges as their spells ignore the defense bonuses of those troops on towers.

Might:

55% Nomads - 45% Harpies: The harpies are more durable due to no retaliation, but I sometimes get too impatient at how little damage they actually do and will pick the nomads just a little more often.

Pre-eq: 100% Cyclopes - 0% Ogre Magi
Post-eq: 70% - 30%
Picking the one-eyed monstrosities pre-eq was a no-brainer, but the ogre magi recruited some fine spells into their arsenal after the add on. Casting snake strike + bloodlust on those behemoths/thunderbirds is just too good to pass by (though the cyclops still wins).

I tend to pick the behemoths just cause noone seems to like the poor fellas. Objectively, I guess the t-birds are better, so all in all, I pick the two equally.
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Unread postby BrennusWhiskey » 09 Jun 2008, 08:27

pacobac wrote:on multiplayer game you must be faster......

so i choose nagas 90% of time (with tactical heroe, this creature is very strong !): teleport or flying naga is nice to kill enemy heroes..

i choose venom 100% (equilibris vampire are weak, expensive, undead, few growth), big creature on final battle !!

i choose crusaders 75% (strong, cheap, many)

ogremagis 50% (good equilibration), maybe they need more magic (5 to 10)

efreet 95% (fast, fly is good to kill heroes)

unicorn is cheap/ griffin is strong and fast (50%)

It is all true paco you are H4 best man I ever know!!!

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Unread postby Metathron » 09 Jun 2008, 09:24

I disagree with pacobac's assessment of the vampire - venom pair. IIRC, their attack & defense rating is still higher than the spawn's, their cost is about the same as is their growth. Sure the vampire does substantially lower damage, but then the venom spawn has the range penalty most of the time and the vampire has life drain and no retaliation.

So how is the vampire weak again?
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Unread postby HodgePodge » 09 Jun 2008, 22:41

My Picks:

Life: Usually go with Pikemen, always go with Monks & Angels.

Nature: Like White Tigers a lot but because they are so lovable; but usually go with the Ranged Elves. It's a tie between the Unicorn & Griffin and Phoenix & Magic Dragon. Though, I usually go with the Griffin & Magic Dragon.

Order: Mage, Genie, Titan.

Chaos: Medusa, Efreet, Blackie.

Might: Harpy, Cyclops, Thunderbird.

Death: Tie between Ghosts & Cerberus. I really like the Venom Spawn, as they are the only Ranged Creature in the Necropolis. Whatever my mood is decides whether I pick Bone Dragon or Devil. I used to almost always go with Devils, but have lately seen the value of picking Bonies.
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My Picks

Unread postby TheUnknown » 11 Jun 2008, 00:55

Life:
lv2 Pikeman 90% Balista 10% cheaper building and resurectable
lvl3 Crusader 80% Monk 20% crusaders have better movespeed and better stats with EQ plus resurection with smaller casaulties rullez :D
lvl4 Champion 80% Angel 20% if not better, champions are at least decent angainst other units (900 hp per week with GM nobility)

Order:
lvl2 Mage 50% Golem 50% mages have cheaper building for my strategy but golems are the best lvl2 creature.
lvl3 Genie 50% Naga 50% genies got prety nerfed now and nagas got buffed, the choice depends mostly on my lvl4 choice genies go with D. golems and nagas with titans
lvl4 Titan 50% D.Golem 50% you must gamble as it depends on your opponents choices what is best

Death:
Totaly demonic army that has at least one hero lich in army or totaly undead army, undead bonus is a nice one to have
The only change that I usualy do is chosing ghosts also in demonic army as they have better movement

Chaos:
lvl2 Medusa 90% Minotaur 10% cheaper building and more useful in battle
lvl3 Nightmare 60% Efreet 40% cheaper are the nightmares if you plan to go with blackies but iefreets are practicaly better
lvl4 B.Dragon 70% Hydra 30% mostly becose of the movement but do not underestimate the potencial of the hydras, angainst hero armies they are better

Nature:
lvl2 White Tiger 80% Elf 20% cheaper builing is what matters when you rarely use lvl2
lvl3 Griffin 90% Unicorn 10% unlimited retaliations always makes my day :D it rarerly comes handy when fighting humans but for AI it rocks
lvl4 Phoenix 50% F.Dragon 50% angainst life & chaos I always go Phoenix but in other cases its 50 | 50

Might:
lvl2 Harpy 70% Nomad 30% becose mostly I battle the AI, for humans I go Nomads
lvl3 Cyclops 80% Ogre Mage 20% I like Ogres better but Cyclops are practicaly a must
lvl4 Thunderbird 70% Behemoth 30% Behemoth is just too much defensive for a faction that does not have magic. Might needs the best fast-strong combination

Equilibris changed the choices I made considering crusaders (got too strong), champions (indirectly made better), venom spawns, hydras, minotaurs (still not enough to compete fairly with medusae but lot better than before), ogres (definately better and cooler :)), genies (got too weak I believe) and nagas.

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Unread postby timagalant » 13 Jun 2008, 08:13

I've played nature a lot, and I've always thought the Phoenixes were much better than the fae dragons, but now I see a lot of people like the dragons. Maybe it's because I side my nature heroes with life ones, so I have access to bless as well, but the phoenixes do a much better job for me.

About the griffins vs unicorns debate, griffins are a lot better, especially versus AI, where you just get first strike on them and you can sit back and relax while they kill themselves.

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Unread postby HodgePodge » 13 Jun 2008, 11:28

timagalant wrote:I've played nature a lot, and I've always thought the Phoenixes were much better than the fae dragons, but now I see a lot of people like the dragons. Maybe it's because I side my nature heroes with life ones, so I have access to bless as well, but the phoenixes do a much better job for me.

About the griffins vs unicorns debate, griffins are a lot better, especially versus AI, where you just get first strike on them and you can sit back and relax while they kill themselves.
Although I really love the Phoenix, I like Faerie Dragons too because they have Magic Spells & Magic Mirror, and can attack from a distance.
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Unread postby timagalant » 13 Jun 2008, 11:39

HodgePodge wrote:
timagalant wrote:I've played nature a lot, and I've always thought the Phoenixes were much better than the fae dragons, but now I see a lot of people like the dragons. Maybe it's because I side my nature heroes with life ones, so I have access to bless as well, but the phoenixes do a much better job for me.

About the griffins vs unicorns debate, griffins are a lot better, especially versus AI, where you just get first strike on them and you can sit back and relax while they kill themselves.
Although I really love the Phoenix, I like Faerie Dragons too because they have Magic Spells & Magic Mirror, and can attack from a distance.
That's understandable. I'm just playing with two life heroes, so I have tactics and mass bless, so this tactic prefers melee combat than magic.
The faerie dragons being able to attack from a distance really is a huge advantage, but I still prefer the phoenixes overall.

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Unread postby Black Ghost » 07 Aug 2008, 11:37

I don't remember my choices in Standard, I'm playing only Eq:

Pikeman
He's faster and has quasi-No Retaliation
Crusader (65%) - Monk (35%)
His pre is Blacksmith. Besides stronger and faster (sometimes too good in Eq)
Champion (60%) - Angel (40%)
Cheaper pre, especially when you have Crusaders. Stables also are nice. Its huge stack with tactican and First Strike I like better than Resurrection, which can cast also Priest

Cerberus (65%) - Ghost (35%)
It's stronger and usually doesn't need pre.
Venom (65%) - Vampire (35%)
Cheaper pre and has Ranged.
Devil (65%) - Bone Dragon (35%)
Faster, summons Demons (good cannon meat). Bone Dragons are not worth 4k

Harpy (55%) - Nomad (45%)
Because it's pre is needed for T-Birds and has better growth. With tactican Strike&Return is great. But weaker than Nomad
Cyclops (70%) - Ogre (30%)
Area Attack and Ranged. Ogre could have better spells against magic factions
T-Bird (65%) - Behemoth (35%)
Faster and better growth.

Medusa
Stone Gaze and Ranged, oh and just because I hate Block
Efreet (60%) - Nightmare (40%)
Faster and it's pre is Blacksmith, but weaker than Nightmare
Hydra (35%) - Black Dragon (65%)
Faster and Immune to Magic. But Immune to Magic.

Mage (60%) - Golem (40%)
Cheaper pre, better growth, and spells. But weaker than Golem
Naga (60%) - Genie (40%)
Faster, stronger, no pre.
Titan (60%) - Dragon Golem (40%)
Cheaper pre and has Ranged. But slower, weaker and more expensive dwelling than Dragon Golem

Elf (50%) - Tiger (50%)
Its pre is Blaksmith and has Ranged. Tiger is faster, stronger and has cheaper pre.
Griffin (50%) - Unicorn (50%)
Strong and fast. Unicorn is just cheaper
Phoenix (55%) - Fairy Dragon (45%)
Fast, strong, immune to Fire and its pre is Life Conservatory. Dragon has nice spells, Magic Mirror and its dwelling is cheaper
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