Ideas for next mods

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Metathron
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Unread postby Metathron » 05 Jun 2007, 20:41

That is a great idea, Black Ghost, it would make the heroes more distinct from one another.
Destiny: Enchanter (Nature Magic/Order Magic)

So that Lowell will normally get only Nature or Order skills.
Perhaps instead of 'only' we could make it so that he would have a great probability of being offered Order Magic, but this should not mean that another skill could possibly be offered.
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Unread postby Black Ghost » 05 Jun 2007, 21:34

1) Thanks for nice welcome, and nice to see you again, Metathron

2) To make it clear:

Lets say Lowell from lev1-10 will only learn skills by LevelUp from battles and Dream Teachers. Destiny will work for him as if only Nature and Order skills were able to get on the map (such scripts are in map properties) Understandably so from about 5th level undoubtedly will appear both Order and Nature skills to choose, but not Combat for instance.
However, Lowell visits Battle Academy(?) and gets (not for free, too bad) B.Combat and B.Tactics. Destiny will enable to get A.Combat or A.Tactics at lev11 since they become "legal" like Nature or Order, but still Lowell won't pick Chaos skills unless he encounters altar or Magic School.
->I've played self-made map where I've advanced in "banned" skills, so it really works.
->Not 100% sure as for Offence (secondary Tactics skill) for example. Posible that he won't get it unless he "buys" it or picks Tactics altar to gain B.Offence, but I'll check it tomorrow.

Nevertheless, if you decides on Enchanter you simply aim at Nature+Order and you'll get it. Other Skills like usefull Combat are nice addons, but IMO the idea in scenario is to get hero in 1-2 professions. In campaigns you have a mulitude of options to raise other primary and secondary Might & Magic skills so no worries about our Lowell.

Initially I was thinking about % to decrease chance of getting other skills in destiny mode, but IMO it won't work properly and will cause too much complications. "Banning" script is simple and effective, and as I wrote not so difficult to extend over extra skills.
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okrane
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Unread postby okrane » 06 Jun 2007, 10:21

I would suggest differently:

from the level 1 to level 10 the hero can gain skills only in these schools.
from level 10 on (already enough time to take the 2 skills and gain the class that would favor them) things go back to normal

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Unread postby Black Ghost » 06 Jun 2007, 18:04

I'll check it tomorrow.
I’ve checked that script with nwcthoth code + Battle University (not academy :) ) and one Combat altar
I've played self-made map where I've advanced in "banned" skills, so it really works.
Truly it works but after testing I must outline some bugs that in destiny shouldn’t appear:
1.
Understandably so from about 5th level undoubtedly will appear both Order and Nature skills to choose
I’ve noticed that the game enables at early levels only “native” or “aligned” skills, so that Order skills for Lowell in my testing (only Nature and Order skills were possible) appeared first at 8-9th level.

2. Moreover at 6th lev for instance I were able to choose only 2 skills (game rules didn’t allow Order to appear that early even if it was only possible 3rd option to get)

->in destiny these rules must be changed
->at early levels “non-aligned” skills (destined) must be allowed (lets say from 3rd lev)
->not let to have such situation: only 2 skills at lev 6 to choose (it’s bound with the rule above)
->having all skills completed or only 2 skills (Summoning and Charm) to complete should turn destiny to normal mode not to let 2 or even 0 skills to appear at later Level Ups. 1/3 option must be always.

3.
Not 100% sure as for Offence (secondary Tactics skill) for example. Posible that he won't get it unless he "buys" it or picks Tactics altar to gain B.Offence
Works like I wrote. IMO it could be also repaired.

->destiny should ban only primary advanced skills (Nobility, Tactics, Combat, Scouting, Magics)
->getting “banned” skill (like Tactics) should enable getting Offence, Defense & Leadership (secondary advanced skills) regardless of Battle University or altars, etc.

okrane wrote:
from the level 1 to level 10 the hero can gain skills only in these schools.
from level 10 on (already enough time to take the 2 skills and gain the class that would favor them) things go back to normal
IMO having mentioned bugs repaired there won’t be necessary to create level limits. I don’t get what for will be for instance Chaos at lev 11 for Lowell (Really bad options: Charm, Summoning, Chaos). If you decide on determined hero you’re aware that he/she will focus only on that skills. Still he could easy advance in all Chaos skills only by getting B.Chaos (but the player decides to pick it or not). Plus, you can hire heroes to have in your army Enchanter, Fireguard and Lord Commander without morale penalties so IMO destiny would be only for good – RPG scenarios would be ideal example.
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okrane
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Unread postby okrane » 06 Jun 2007, 19:10

I must say I love this idea of yours. It would bring something of the hero specialties I enjoyed in H3 and H5.

I presume that there should exist at least one hero destined for each possible advanced class his basic class can have. For example for the priest there should be all 8 different types of advanced classes possible with the Life Magic Skill. That means a minimum of 8 heroes. Not a bad idea to have multiple heroes with the same destiny.

One question: What will happen with the Archmage class?

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Unread postby Black Ghost » 06 Jun 2007, 20:25

One question: What will happen with the Archmage class?
Forgot to write about him, thx for mentioning that. Destiny would enable only Life (L), Order (O), Death (D), Chaos (C) & Nature (N) skills but there are two possible ways:
-1 archmage type: all Magic skills are enable but no Might skills (let’s make a Bhob :D )
-10 archmage types: LOD, LOC, LON, ODC, ODN, DCN, DCL, LDN, CNO and CNL

It’s hard to say, whether 10 archmage types would make archmage too accessible, as evolving 3 skills instead of 2 to E, M, or GM is far more difficult. However half of heroes would be archmages then. :wall:

As I checked, there are total following heroes to hire (without campaign ones that cannot be normally bought); F-female, M-male:
Life (52)
Priest: 13F, 12M
Knight: 13F, 14M
Order (50)
Lord: 12F, 13M
Mage: 12F, 13M
Death (50)
D.Knight: 12F, 13M
Necromancer: 12F, 13M
Chaos (50)
Thief: 13F, 12M
Sorcerer: 12F, 13M
Nature (50)
Archer: 13F, 12M
Druid: 12F, 13M
Might (26)
Barbarian: 13F, 13M

Any hero can evolve into one of 8 classes + archmage. IMO some should have destiny: none (like Solmyr) not to ruin campaigns. But having only 9/25 heroes in every basic class to have destiny is too random, so I suggest two ways:
- doubling that number to allow female Druid and male Druid to become Enchanter, still having 7 “normal” heroes
- making 10 archmage types and having 18/25 heroes in every basic class to have destiny, still having 7 “normal” heroes
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okrane
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Unread postby okrane » 06 Jun 2007, 20:31

I would say, as there are 8 classes initially available to each hero and around 24 heroes make 3 herpes have the same destiny. The rest can be of class archmage or none.

And this should be added in their description.

Nevertheless I fear this can't/won't be done by the devs...

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Unread postby jim strom » 07 Jun 2007, 15:53

I really like the destiny idea, so i made some of my own suggestions:

Jeddite - Human
Biography: Some sorcerers may enjoy causing destruction, but Jeddite worships it. He is a dark fanatic wholly committed to the ultimate dissolution of the universe. No one knows why he adopted such insane beliefs, but neither can anyone convince him to turn to another path.

Destiny: Heretic (Chaos+life) (He had the ressurection spell in heroes 3, and have the look of a fallen priest.)


Vidomina - Human
Biography: Vidomina was a brilliant noblewoman who practiced a career in alchemy until she was banished when it was discovered that she was experimenting with reanimating dead flesh. That experience turned this scientific woman into the vindictive necromancer she is today.

Destiny: Shadow mage ( Death+order (In the Sandro campaign, she made an apperance as a wizard, which seek order and controll most of all.)

However, a lot of the heroes, have quite uninforming bios, so some suggestions should be included for those.

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Unread postby MistWeaver » 11 Jun 2007, 22:36

I've an idea for future mod versions. Im not sure if that is possible or how hard is it, but still..

Here I describe a simple method that improves the adventure AI. In two words - AI that has explored all map, plays much better.
I just thought.. once game is started, there should be something like 2-dimentional arrays for each player that keep explored/unexplored at x,y bits for current map.
If you guys were able set an Imortality Potion bit for AI heroes, maybe you can reset these arrays to "explored". What do you think ?

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Unread postby TheUnknown » 12 Jun 2007, 10:01

If thats not possible, it would be cool to have the ai using 1 creature armies to explore the map but doubt it's possible to make.

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Unread postby MistWeaver » 12 Jun 2007, 12:16

TheUnknown wrote: it would be cool to have the ai using 1 creature armies to explore the map but doubt it's possible to make.
No it would not. That was the point - to release AI from need to explore.

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Unread postby jeff » 12 Jun 2007, 22:56

Not to mention the fact having all of those AI armies moving around will greatly increase the AI turn time, which can be aggravating.
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Unread postby csarmi » 13 Jun 2007, 13:36

pls pls pls do not implement anything that makes heroes different I hated that in h3 already... this was one of the better parts of h4...

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Unread postby Humakt » 13 Jun 2007, 21:13

csarmi wrote:pls pls pls do not implement anything that makes heroes different I hated that in h3 already... this was one of the better parts of h4...
I agree in some degree, thought it wouldn't propably hurt to raise the price of Immortality Potions to 2000 or to help AI to explore.
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Unread postby Akul » 14 Jun 2007, 17:40

While playing D2 before few days and turning a dungeon into a ruin, I asked myself why woudn't it be possible in H4: Equi as well!
That is, when you defeat the guardians of a certain creature bank, the bank turns into a ruin until the monsters re-appear (when the bank rebuilds itself).
I am back and ready to... ready to... post things.

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jeff
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Unread postby jeff » 14 Jun 2007, 23:26

I am not sure of the technical details, but H-IV can not place objects onto the map only remove them. So once you destroyed it, there is no way to place a replacement. Again how hard that would be I don't know. There are several great 'effect' possibilites if we could place new objects on the map.
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Unread postby eekstah » 15 Jun 2007, 14:40

Yeah, jeff, I have thought of that too. Can't see why it should be a problem. It would be great.

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Unread postby jeff » 16 Jun 2007, 02:22

Not sure if it's been mentioned, but how about when digging up an oracle treasure instead of treasure, you get a text message.
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TheUnknown
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Sugestion for scouting

Unread postby TheUnknown » 26 Jun 2007, 11:09

Scouting is a nice skill altough I think this would help balance the factions a bit if not more :)
How about making scouting increasing the growth of creatures in town but by a very little amount for example:
LVL1 scouting increases growth of lvl1 creatures by 2 or 5 % either one
LVL2 scouting increases growth of lvl2 creatures by 0.5 or 5% and of lvl1 creatures by 3 or 10 %
LVL3 scouting increases growth of lvl2 creatures by 1 or 10% and of lvl1 creatures by 5 or 15%
LVL4 scouting increases growth of lvl3 creatures by 0.2 or 5% and of lvl2 creatures by 1 or 15% and lvl1 creatures by 7 or 20%
LVL5 scoutign increases growth of lvl4 creatures by 0.1 or 5% and of lvl3 creatures by 0.5 or 10% and lvl2 creatures by 2 or 15% and lvl1 creatures by 9 or 25%

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Unread postby TheUnknown » 26 Jun 2007, 11:30

If nobility was level or experiense based then lords would be a more desireable class in the begining. In my opinion experience shouldn't efect it much, but maybe I'm wrong :)


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