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Maciek
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Postby Maciek » Mar 5 2013, 18:58

No, it doesn't. I can Blind Ballistas both in WoW and Equi, even if there is only a red Mage with GM order and a Tome of Order and a neutral army of Ballistas on the map.
Edit: Changing Tome of Order to Blind spell doesn't change anything. The Mage can still blind Ballistas.

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Unfixed bugs in Equilibris and some questions

Postby Yurian Stonebow » Mar 5 2013, 20:07

@Dalai:

About the unfixed bugs in Equilibris 3.51

So if it's a known bug, I wonder if it was fixed in version 3.55? I read on the ArchangelCastle.com's forum "H4 League" that Max, (Maxim, a Russian guy?) who is working in close co-operation with the French, has finalized version 3.55 and is currently adding last touches to the long-awaited Equilibris version 3.6. I had to go through pages of material both in French and Russian in two different sites with the Google translator to find out all the aforementioned information. Too bad he's demanding(??) financial compensation for his coding, bug solving and recoding stuff needed to give the fans the fabled version 3.6.

Some questions:

Are the Liches still in as a playable new unit?
Are the weather effects still going to be included?
What about the Easter Island statues and other new graphics?
Are new maps and an Equi Campaign finally gonna see the light of day?
What about the new creature banks and invisible walls?
Was the economy aspects of Heroes IV improved by Max's work?
Can the AI heroes finally be able to cast potions on themselves?
Can the AI now see through the fog of war?
When can I send you the already promised bottle of the finest Finnish vodka called Finlandia? And to whom shall I send it to? To Dalai's home address as he is the comrade General Secretary overseeing the All-Russian Committee for Maximum Improving of Heroes IV? ;)

With best regards and certainly
in solidarity & wishing your team all the best,

Yurian
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Postby Dalai » Mar 6 2013, 11:00

Maciek wrote:No, it doesn't. I can Blind Ballistas both in WoW and Equi, even if there is only a red Mage with GM order and a Tome of Order and a neutral army of Ballistas on the map.
Edit: Changing Tome of Order to Blind spell doesn't change anything. The Mage can still blind Ballistas.

My bad, I did not check it before writing. I think I confused it with some other Blind bug. Unicorns can blind magic-immune creatures or smth. like that.

Yurian Stonebow wrote:@Dalai:
About the unfixed bugs in Equilibris 3.51

So if it's a known bug, I wonder if it was fixed in version 3.55? I read on the ArchangelCastle.com's forum "H4 League" that Max, (Maxim, a Russian guy?) who is working in close co-operation with the French, has finalized version 3.55 and is currently adding last touches to the long-awaited Equilibris version 3.6. I had to go through pages of material both in French and Russian in two different sites with the Google translator to find out all the aforementioned information. Too bad he's demanding(??) financial compensation for his coding, bug solving and recoding stuff needed to give the fans the fabled version 3.6.

I think you lost something in translation, he's not the kind of guy to demand compensation. And he's ashamed by the slow progress too.

Some questions:

Are the Liches still in as a playable new unit?

No, and they never were. It was a proof of concept, and it required sacrificing another creature model.

Are the weather effects still going to be included?
What about the Easter Island statues and other new graphics?

Most probably, yes.
I have a current version to test, but I have not started yet, sorry.

Are new maps and an Equi Campaign finally gonna see the light of day?

They are, but they are in Russian, so don't expect too much. Sorry for that too.

What about the new creature banks and invisible walls?

Most probably, yes.

Was the economy aspects of Heroes IV improved by Max's work?
Can the AI heroes finally be able to cast potions on themselves?
Can the AI now see through the fog of war?

No :(

When can I send you the already promised bottle of the finest Finnish vodka called Finlandia? And to whom shall I send it to? To Dalai's home address as he is the comrade General Secretary overseeing the All-Russian Committee for Maximum Improving of Heroes IV? ;)

Now that's a tough question. Tradition requires to put the gift of alcohol on the table immediately and drink it together with the person who brought it. We'll need to synchronize travel plans to make it work :-D
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A serious bug with Luck

Postby Yurian Stonebow » Dec 14 2013, 23:57

Pic #1:

[img]http://memberfiles.freewebs.com/53/05/49150553/photos/undefined/oddequiluckbug.jpg[/img]

Dec. 15th 2013 as seen on the front page of the CH as Picture of the Day.
Here's what I saw after my army led by Aragorn (yes it's from a LotR map I'm now testing) had defeated an enemy hero along with his army in a siege battle were I was the attacker. Aragorn's Luck jumped to an unbelievable +256?! Eh, what? How is that possible? No scripting whatsoever was used that altered Luck or Morale values.

Pic #2:

[img]http://memberfiles.freewebs.com/53/05/49150553/photos/undefined/bugluck2.png[/img]

Feeling puzzled about what had just happened, and quite rightfully too, I entered the next battle in an open field against an enemy hero and his army. And then I saw this. Aragorn's Luck was claimed to be neutral
but clearly it was not so. He had maximum Luck for the next battle thus enabling him to gain an unfair edge against the poor AI player. Can anyone explain what the **** just happened? Dalai? Anyone?

With solidarity,

Yurian
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Random monsters in not so random places

Postby Yurian Stonebow » Dec 15 2013, 0:04

Pic #3:

Image

Why does the game engine spawn random "Week of..." monsters to exactly the same spot previously occupied by a wandering monster stack which was placed there by the map maker when making the scenario with the Heroes IV map editor?? What gives? anyone care to explain? :)

-Yurian
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Postby Karmakeld » Dec 15 2013, 21:11

My guess is, that otherwise map would eventually be totally empty :-). Also week of e.g. Champions spawns champions because it's the week of.. champions.. If you wan't to prevent respawning, you should change the neutrals to colored. Some say that changing them after defeat will work, but I had other results in some of my tests, so I suggest changing their color upon encounter. Also it seem to be that only aligned creatures spawn. e.g. Life - life, nature - nature etc. But peasants, squires, monks could all be replaced by champions if week of the champion appears.
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Postby Yurian Stonebow » Dec 16 2013, 3:36

What I meant was that in my case, as the picture on the previous page shows, the game engine spawned the Champions there as it was "the week of Champions", but they came to occupy the very same tile where the previous monster stack had been. I had placed three different stacks of Peasants to guard the Peasant Hut dwellings, and a random level 1 monster stack to guard the sawmill. See the picture and you'll know what I mean. :)

[img]http://memberfiles.freewebs.com/53/05/49150553/photos/undefined/peasanthutsnochampions.jpg[/img]

So, my point is that I have nothing against respawning but I think it odd that the random monsters came to occupy the very same "slots". It must be a bug of sorts. Let's hope that this can be confirmed.

Wbr,

Yurian
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Postby Karmakeld » Dec 16 2013, 11:41

well I think it makes sense to let them spawn where monsters have already been placed (same tile), otherwise they would have to spawn at random places, e.g. in mountain, trees, above/behind objects etc.. You'd had no idea where monsters would spawn if not on the same tile.. hope this makes sense.. Also I guess part of it lies in the term "re-spawning". How could nothing spawn into something..?

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Re: A serious bug with Luck

Postby Dalai » Dec 16 2013, 19:37

Yurian Stonebow wrote:Can anyone explain what the **** just happened? Dalai? Anyone?
Obviously, you encountered a bug with "Decrease Luck". And I see that the situation is being discussed here.

Regarding monsters spawning on previously occupied places - it makes perfect sense. If a monster was placed there by mapmaker, it means that the place is important for some reason. New monsters should appear in important places, not some random spots.

P.S. Had to make some tiny edits to your posts - wide pictures brake forum layout on small monitors.
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Postby Karmakeld » Dec 16 2013, 21:14

well I've read one or more places on CH that ppl. find that in/decrease moral and luck often then to bug. Along with Maciek, I ran a torough test of how moral/luck acted depending on how it was scripted; timed, triggered, placed, continious, encountered etc.

the conclusions were:
Conclusions (In general decreases will bug, increases won't)
PLACED EVENTS:
Placed events seems to WORK FINE, both when triggered on the hero or by decreasing via the placed event itself.
Any bonus/penalty will RESET after battles.
You can load without problems and enter adventure objects, but it will BUG if triggered again AFTER loading.
(Possible solution, remove triggered/placed script)

TIMED EVENTS ON HEROES:
Increases works fine. Both after loads and when encountering adventure objects.
Decrease will BUG, either after load or on following day.

TIMED EVENT CHECK VARIABLE TRUE:
Daily check that triggers decrease, will BUG after load WHEN TRIGGERED AGAIN.
Daily check decrease will BUG. Even if set to false afterwards.
Daily check that are REMOVED after check, WORKS FINE.
----- Timed bonuses will stay permanently after battles.
TRIGGERED EVENTS: (seems to be the same as timed)
----- Triggered bonuses will stay permanently after battles.

CONTINUOUS EVENTS:
When encountering it seems to give +3. After battle an additional +4. Following battles give a total of +9.
Continous events decreasing will bug.

ENCOUNTERED EVENTS:
When encountered, script will check for other alignments and increase moral. This WORKS FINE (and RESETS) after battle.
Encountered increase on army is temporary.
Increase on this hero is permanent.

Maybe Maciek can remember more on this subject..
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Postby Maciek » Dec 16 2013, 22:16

the conclusions were:
Conclusions (In general decreases will bug, increases won't)



Before you first load a game on a given map, all +/- morale and luck scripts work okay. After you load the game, increase scripts will still work fine, but all decrease scripts will effectively give permament (!) maximum possible positive (!) value of morale/luck. And that value will display as some nonsense.

More exactly, it gives +255 instead of takeing 1, +254 instead of -2 etc.

Also, if you got a morale/luck penalty before game was loaded, the penalty will continue to work like intended. But all decrease morale/luck scripts called after load will bug out.

So, for starters, the only time when you can 'safely' decrease luck/morale is at start of day 1.


More advanced stuff (not sure if it should go here or to the mapmaking tricks thread): How to check if player loaded the game since map start?

Another bug can be used for this. First, make a level -1 hero and put him under a mountain or in some other inaccessible place. How to make a level -1 hero is described in the mapmaking tricks thread. Now, check (with a triggered or daily script) if that hero is still level -1. If yes, it means the player didn't load the game. Do not put any other scripts on that hero (or at least don't trigger them). Also, if you want to check again if the player loaded the game since map start, you will need to use some other level -1 hero.

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Postby Dalai » Dec 17 2013, 13:31

Update from our programmer: icrease/decrease luck/morale scripts are fixed, range is limited to +10/-10.

If anyone cares to design a good test script to discover any tricky bugs and errors - you are very welcome.
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Postby Karmakeld » Dec 17 2013, 19:05

Dalai, I have the map Maciek and I used. It's set to check for all kinds of scripts, timed, placed, triggered, encountered etc, with comments. But perhaps Maciek is more likely to create a good enough test script hint hint ;)
Will the update be featured in the next version or is it possible to get? I'm working on a campaign, and would love the fixed version before releasing it..
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Postby Maciek » Dec 17 2013, 20:30

range is limited to +10/-10.

I suppose having some more than +10 or some less than -10 could make sense. I mean, you can lose up to 9 morale during battle for losing total hp of your army, there's some Vial that decreases morale by 10, there are +morale artifacts, +luck/morale buildings, Leadership and morale penalties for mixing alignments.

EDIT:
If anyone cares to design a good test script to discover any tricky bugs and errors - you are very welcome.

You mean you want a test map that covers all situations that we can imagine where +/- morale/luck scripts can be used (made with an old 3.51 editor)? Or some kind of checklist?

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Postby Dalai » Dec 17 2013, 23:16

Karmakeld wrote:Will the update be featured in the next version or is it possible to get? I'm working on a campaign, and would love the fixed version before releasing it..
It will be featured in the next Equilibris version, of course. How far are you from finishing your campaign?

Maciek wrote:I suppose having some more than +10 or some less than -10 could make sense. I mean, you can lose up to 9 morale during battle for losing total hp of your army, there's some Vial that decreases morale by 10, there are +morale artifacts, +luck/morale buildings, Leadership and morale penalties for mixing alignments.
I don't quite understand your thought. What sense could it make to have -13 Luck or +19 Morale? What would the difference between -13 and -10 look like?

You mean you want a test map that covers all situations that we can imagine where +/- morale/luck scripts can be used (made with an old 3.51 editor)? Or some kind of checklist?
Map would be a perfect solution. 3.51 editor is enough to create it. And it would probably need a checklist too, like "We go to point A, expected result is B, but keep an eye open for C or D, as it would mean E and F".
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Postby Maciek » Dec 18 2013, 0:27

I don't quite understand your thought. What sense could it make to have -13 Luck or +19 Morale? What would the difference between -13 and -10 look like?


a) You have -13 luck. Visit Rainbow and get a Leprechauns Ring and you have -9.
If you have -10 instead of -13, you end at -6 instead.
b) Your Champions have +13 Morale. Let's say, +5 from Tactician and +8 from scripts. Somebody kills your Tactician and casts a Cloud of Despair on them and kills 10% of your army without losing anything himself. Now, they have -3 Morale.
If you cut that +13 down to range [-10,+10], the Champions now have +10-5-1-10=-6 Morale.

It just gives you different values. I suppose just I didn't understand what is limited to [-10,+10] range. Total Morale/Luck? Total bonus/penalty from scripts? Or you can add/subtract at most 10 Luck/Morale with one script?

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Postby Dalai » Dec 18 2013, 13:50

Ok, I see your point. Different numbers, definitely, but which outcome is more desirable?

Let me find out details of what has been implemented and return with an answer.

What do you think should script limitations be?
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Postby Maciek » Dec 18 2013, 21:32

Ok, I see your point. Different numbers, definitely, but which outcome is more desirable?

I suppose a)-9, b)-3. But I don't think it's important if it's easier to avoid bugs with the other numbers.
I don't know in which case is it easier to avoid some bugs/loopholes, but I guess it's in the first cases (-9, -3).

What do you think should script limitations be?

I'll try to give the maximum limits that can still make any sense.

MORALE
Maximum Morale possible without scripts: +33
A single hero can give creatures up to +23 Morale (Lord Commander with GM Leadership, 4 Marnathea's Mugs, Medal of Honour and Mullich's Helm).
More heroes won't improve this result.
Temples give up to +4, other map locations up to +3, Abbey another +2. Add +1 for army from one Alignment.
Without scripts, creatures can currently get up to +33.

Minimum Morale possible without scripts: -34
Get an army from all alignments for -15 (2*-1 for allies, 2*-5 for enemies, -2 for Stronghold, -2 for Undeads).
Get 90% of it killed in battle for -9 and get a Cloud of Despair thrown on your stack for -10.
Unless I missed something, the minimum Morale possible without scripts is -34.

Min and Max reasonable boosts/penalties from scripts: -43, +44
If you give a stack at least +44 Morale with scripts, it will always have positive Morale in battle no matter what (Unless somebody casts Sorrow on it). Likewise, if you give -43 with scripts, the stack will always have bad Morale in battle no matter what (unless somebody casts Mirth on it).

Conclusions:
a) So, here you have a maximum reasonable limit for total bonus from scripts: [-43,+44]. I mean, it makes no sense to give any more or any less Morale with scripts.
b) That makes the maximum limits for total Morale that still make any sense: [-77,+77].
c) Since changing a stack's Morale with scripts by more than 87 (from -43 to +44 or back) makes no sense, I think that the current limit for maximum increase/decrease with one line of script (20) is quite okay.

But I think it may be okay to set the a) (and, as a consequence, b)) limits closer to 0.

LUCK
Maximum Luck possible without scripts: +20
A single hero can give creatures up to +13 Luck (GM Leadership, 2 Leprechaun's Rings, 4 Horshoes).
More heroes won't improve this result.
Map locations give up to +7.
Without scripts, creatures can currently get up to +20.

Minimum Luck possible without scripts: 0

Min and Max reasonable boosts/penalties from scripts: -30, +10
If you give a stack at least +10 Luck with scripts, it will always have positive Luck in battle no matter what (Unless somebody casts Misfortune on it). Likewise, if you give -30 with scripts, the stack will always have bad Luck in battle no matter what (unless somebody casts Fortune on it).

Conclusions:
a) So, here you have a maximum reasonable limit for total bonus from scripts: [-30,+10]. I mean, it makes no sense to give any more or any less Luck with scripts.
b) That makes the maximum limits for total Luck that still make any sense: [-40,+40].
c) Since changing a stack's Luck with scripts by more than 40 (from -30 to +10 or back) makes no sense, I think that the current limit for maximum increase/decrease with one line of script (20) is quite okay.

But I think it may be okay to set the a) lower limit (and, as a consequence, b) limits) closer to 0.

Also I suppose that you may want the limits to be symmetric.[/b]
Last edited by Maciek on Dec 20 2013, 21:49, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Karmakeld » Dec 18 2013, 22:50

Dalai wrote:
Karmakeld wrote:Will the update be featured in the next version or is it possible to get? I'm working on a campaign, and would love the fixed version before releasing it..
It will be featured in the next Equilibris version, of course. How far are you from finishing your campaign?

Well out of the 15/16 maps I'm working on map 9, but I plan on releasing the first 5 maps in the begining of the new year. For some of these maps I would like the bug free version, as I had to do some changes to avoid bugs. But 100% completion lies a few years out in the future.

Maciek, once again you amaze :creative:. But I was right, to point you to the task :)
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Postby Karmakeld » Dec 18 2013, 23:43

dalai, btw there's a similar bug with another decrease/ script. if you try to decrease dwelling population, this will also go beskerk after loading. Instead of decreasing, it will generate 65.489 monsters pr. turn.
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