Creature stats discusion

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Le_Faucheur
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Postby Le_Faucheur » Jul 3 2007, 17:14

what about the double strike? (if the hero has a PoI :D )
what?
no?
ok ==> []

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okrane
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Postby okrane » Jul 3 2007, 17:24

You can easily make him have no retal by casting aura of fear on him...

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pacobac
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Postby pacobac » Jul 3 2007, 19:23

devil are enough big !!!
the combo venom - devil is very strong, tactical, mass cancel.......

on random MP, bad luck for player who ablle to play with vampire and ghost dragons, very weack on final battle without moral (+10 attack for other level 4, faster and bigger than dead creatures..)

the first equilibration is erase or decrease, Angel’s Blade (50 to 25%)
the second is more vampire growth (3 to 4 / week), cheaper (1100 to 950)
same for ghost, cheaper (4000 to 3000- 3500)

dark champion are very strong agaisnt neutral army but weak on final human battle as other dead....good changes is decrease the xp dark champion (1000 to 850-900).......to have more of them

is it possible to add wow creatures on next equilibris ?
good job dream team......

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Postby Le_Faucheur » Jul 4 2007, 11:34

vampires are weird, not too hard to carry about them, but the AI is unable to counter them. I would make them weaker to give the Ai a chance ;| (are they that bad in mp? I mean, even if they are less good than venom spawns in a final battle, they can win tougher battle against the AI, and somewhat help you in another way)

about the bone dragon (ghost dragon is in homm 3 lol :D ) is he that weak too? flight, huge defense, big attack, some magic resistance, no retal against most creatures, protected against shooters... undead and speed 5 are his only flaws

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Slayer of Cliffracers
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Postby Slayer of Cliffracers » Jul 4 2007, 13:57

The unicorn's blinding ability however, is obviously quite physical. It's about hitting the target in the eye with that sharp, nasty horn. Hitting both eyes with one blow is not very likely, but i guess it could happen if you hit just in between. Other than that, the possible outcomes of an unicorn attack is either "hit in an eye" or "not hit in an eye". In this case, in a physical sense being blind means having no eyes left. If you were one-eyed to begin with and then "hit in an eye", you would have no eyes left and therefor be blind. But if you had two eyes, and then "hit in an eye", you would still have one eye and not be blind.


I disagree. The Unicorn's blinding ability is not physical, else every creature with a sharp pointy thing would be able to blind.

It's beacause it's so dazzling that looking directly at it, causes you to go blind.

I would be wary of changing stats too much. I think they seem quite fine as it is, although Spell casters like Genies are a little powerful.

- Spellcasting for Efreeti and Monks. I don't see any problem with using the (ranged) attack animations for spellcasting. All castles have spellcasting creatures except for life and chaos, and the reasons why Efreeti and Monks should recieve some spells is (IMO) very logical.


Monks should lose their ranged attack and become pure spellcasters.

Effreeti should maybe be able to cast fireballs.
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Postby Le_Faucheur » Jul 4 2007, 20:48

about monks : they would be too much like mages.
monks could call their god for help, and would be able to cast the following spells :
-exorcism / mass exorcism
-displacement
-steal enchantment? (but not steal all enchantment)

about efreets : too powerful, even if I think it's the weakest 3rd level creature. They could have least have speed 7 or 8, speed 6 is ridiculous compared to their 13 on homm 3.

spell :
-firewall?
Last edited by Le_Faucheur on Jul 4 2007, 21:10, edited 1 time in total.

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Slayer of Cliffracers
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Postby Slayer of Cliffracers » Jul 4 2007, 20:52

about monks : they would be too much like mages.
about efreets : too powerful, even if I think it's the weakest 3rd level creature. They could have least have speed 7 or 8, speed 6 is ridiculous compared to their 13 on homm 3.


Monks would cast Life Spells exclusively. Mages can't do that.

You are right about Efreet though. They are nasty enough as it is, without giving them spells.

Indeed there is fluff evidence to suggest that the natural abilities of Efreet, are at odds with the use of magic.
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Le_Faucheur
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Postby Le_Faucheur » Jul 18 2007, 11:52

what about lowering the growth of levels 3 and 4?
they would growth twice as slowly.
it would make level 1 and 2 better, and DD spells better too.

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okrane
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Postby okrane » Jul 22 2007, 18:14

it would be interesting... although it will slow down the game.....

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Postby Galactygon » Jul 23 2007, 8:32

You are right in that Devils are hero-killers, and they would be overpowered if they were given no retailiation. What about weaking their hit points, initiative, and damage by a certain amount in return for no-retaliation? Or first strike at the very least? I think it makes sense that teleporting would surprise the devil's opponent.

As for monks, I was thinking of giving them the following (life+order) spells:
* Chaos Ward
* Death Ward
* Heal
* Bless
* Holy Word
* Dispel
* Magic Fist
* Displacement
* Banish

I imagined the combat abilities of the Efreeti being weakened somewhat, but not to the extent of Genies. Their spellbook would contain offensive spells, but not any key spells like slow or create illusion or confusion. In other words, their spells would be less useful on the battlefield, but in turn, their combat abilities will be better than that of the genies.
* Fire Aura (4 extra Dmg/Efreeti)
* Haste
* Sparks (same Dmg as Equi Ogre Magi's sparks)
* Misfortune
* Firebolt (same Dmg as Genie's Icebolt)
* Smoke

-Galactygon

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Postby Le_Faucheur » Jul 24 2007, 18:44

growth of neutral creatures would be lowered too.
I don't think it would slow down the game that much, because anyway you can beat level 1 and 2 creatures with only a couple level 4.

don't make efreets weaker, they are already too weak for what they cost

850 gold for 1840 HP(80x23) and an average 375(10-20x25) damages whereas the nightmare cost 800 gold for 2200 HP(110x20) and an average 437(12-26x23) damages.


ok, what do you think of that :

sprite : growth : 18, can cast mana flare, mana : 5
leprechaun : immune against misfortune, bonus in luck +1
elf : damages : 3-5, the dwelling should be easier to get
satyr : immune against sorrow, bonus in morale +1
waspwort : growth : 6, move on adventure map : 20
faerie dragon : can cast misfortune(but not mass misfortune)
gargantua : move in battle : 5, shots : 10 or 12

balista : doesn't affect the morale of friendly units, move on adventure map : 18
crusader : growth : 5
monk : spellcaster (exorcism/mass exorcism, displacement, steal enchantment), mana : 8
champion : spellcaster on the adventure map (visions, endurance), +1 morale for the army
catapult : move on adventure map : 20

genie : The fact they can have mass slow makes evil sorceress less good.
naga : the dwelling should need a prerequite(alchemist's shop or treasury for example)
golem dragon : 50% magic resistance (since they are golem and built by dwarves)
titan : can cast chain lightning(63 damages per titan), mana : 14
evil sorceress : can cast berserk

cerberus : attack : 18, speed : 7, move in battle : 8
ghost : damages : 3-5
gargoyle : magic resistance : 50%
venom spawn : immune against poison

pirate : no boarding/unboarding penalty,move further on sea
nightmare : -1 morale for the enemies
efreeti : speed : 8, spellcaster (disrupting ray/mass disrupting ray, inferno (10 damages per efreeti) or firewall), mana : 10

harpy:the dwelling should be easier to get
nomad: increases the vision ray by 1, no terrain penalty, the dwelling should be easier to get
cyclop : attack : 30
behemoth : destroys a door in one hit

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Postby pacobac » Jul 27 2007, 0:29

hehe some idee are realy interesting, "le faucheux", just few good changes, amazing changes as i see here, is stupid, i think.......


i add some things......

your efreetis seem too strong, dont forgot on MP, we choose them 80% of time, (maybe just increase their power shield: 33 to 44%), better move for nigthmar to 26, same for licorne and champion, move is too important on Mp, i think we need decrease this fact...

vampire: growth: 4/week, one is 1000 gold
dark champion are too experienced, 1000 to 800, growth: 2/ week
momies are too low experienced
ghost dragon are too expensive for their power (4000 to 3500)

catapult are too experienced, 800 to 600 (very weack level 4)

no prerequite for nomade and harpy dweling
only citadelle prerequite to built thunder

and generaly better move for slow creatures, increase 2 move

CLA CLAP CLAP "le faucheur" ;)

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Postby csarmi » Jul 27 2007, 6:51

Pacobac, the main problem is that adventure map movement and battle movement are tied.

1) You change the function that determines adventure map movement from combat movement in a way that most creatures have similar move on the map (or all have the same).

2) You make the combat movements similar.

Both are problematic.

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okrane
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Postby okrane » Jul 27 2007, 6:54

Really?

I never thought they are tied, i.e. one cannot be modified without changing another...

btw... I'm in the mood of learning to play multiplayer... someone here can help me play a match or smth....

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Postby Le_Faucheur » Jul 27 2007, 12:27

pacobac wrote:hehe some idee are realy interesting, "le faucheux", just few good changes, amazing changes as i see here, is stupid, i think.......


i add some things......

your efreetis seem too strong, dont forgot on MP, we choose them 80% of time, (maybe just increase their power shield: 33 to 44%), better move for nigthmar to 26, same for licorne and champion, move is too important on Mp, i think we need decrease this fact...

I feared that. more speed makes it more like the efreeti in heroes 3 (I really liked the efreeti in heroes 3). I think the firewall would be a nice addition, the inferno is a bit powerful, but the faerie dragon already have the fireball :D
better move for horses is a good idea, forgot how slow the nightmare is. unicorn and champion with speed 25 weren't bad.
vampire: growth: 4/week, one is 1000 gold

I still think it's too strong, aren't they an annoyance sometimes in mp?
dark champion are too experienced, 1000 to 800, growth: 2/ week
momies are too low experienced

hum, right
ghost dragon are too expensive for their power (4000 to 3500)

I think they are really powerful, 2 of them have the strength of a black dragon + no retaliation, they are simply made for dealing with big creatures rather than heroes I think.

catapult are too experienced, 800 to 600 (very weack level 4)

yeah, and I sometimes forget you can get 3 of them per week

no prerequite for nomade and harpy dweling
only citadelle prerequite to built thunder

at least it would give more lust to play stronghold

and generaly better move for slow creatures, increase 2 move

CLA CLAP CLAP "le faucheur" ;)

yeah, it's annoying to have a slow army

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Postby Black Ghost » Aug 7 2008, 9:41

pacobac wrote:better move for nigthmar to 26, same for licorne and champion

the second is more vampire growth (3 to 4 / week), cheaper (1100 to 950)
same for ghost, cheaper (4000 to 3000- 3500)

decrease the xp dark champion (1000 to 850-900).......to have more of them
.


Agree, and...

Monk: 60hp (now 55) & adv_mov 23 (now 21)
Catapult: adv_mov 20 (now 17)
Gargantuan: adv_mov 23 (now 21)
Megadragon: about 2000xp (now 1500xp)
Mummy: 35xp (now 28xp)
Mage: 44xp (now 39xp)
"Set your enemies on fire, light a campfire, or roast a duck. It's an all purpose spell!"
- Firebolt (Chaos spell, level 2)

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pacobac
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Postby pacobac » Aug 7 2008, 21:38

hehe im agree with you Black Ghost ?!!! :)
you are right, megadragon are very strongest than blakys who are strongest than other level 4 creatures....
are you h4 online player ?

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Postby Black Ghost » Aug 11 2008, 19:30

:D I didn't intend to surprise you
Good suggstions for online but also for solo are always welcome.

About being online player... Recently I had only played with friends in hostel, maybe just a bit solo (few chalenging campaigns/scenarios). Anyway the maps and strategies got far more different from what I've been used to.

end with offtop ;)
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Postby TheUnknown » Sep 13 2008, 16:19

As much as I know, map and combat movement are tied, therefore I don't think that changing the move of champions is a good idea.
I agree with movement buff for Unicorn (26) and Nightmare (sugest 25 here so unicorn keeps his advantage over nightmare, nightmare still gains +2 this way rather than unicorns +1), agreed that efreets should get a better fire shield too.
Vampires would be too much 4 per week, return some of the old statistics in attack and/or defense but not in movement.
Crusaders - too strong, reduce their HP to 70.
Bone Dragon - how about giving them cancelation on hit ??? won't help much but might be just the thing they need. Other type for helping them out against moral, is allowing stacking of undead penalties to moral.


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