Skill replacements!

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cherko
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Skill replacements!

Unread postby cherko » 13 Mar 2006, 18:25

OK, this is my suggestion, if you don't like it, tell me why!

Seamanship should be removed. Or at least, it shouldn't be a part of scouting. If you removed seamanship and replaced it with something more useful, like, assassination (for more info on assassination, see below) it would make scouting a lot more useful in many maps. In fact, there are many maps where seamanship is useless, or close to useless and still not disabled.

And over to this 'assassination' skill.

Basic: Could decrease the hit points of all enemy heroes by x %, maybe?
Advanced: Same effect, just a bit more percent.
Expert: Hero casts poison on a random enemy stack/hero at the beginning of each combat (this gives ninjas a bonus, and that makes sense) and also decreases enemy heroes hit points.
Master: Further decreases hit points and casts poison on two or three stacks/heroes
Grandmaster: Further increases hit points and casts poison on 4-all stacks. All might be owerpowered.

And if you want to keep seamanship, you can make it a part of a set of 'stand-alone skills' which no hero starts which but which all heroes can learn. They range from basic to grandmaster and there are no requirements. Other skills than seamanship could be
repair - ressurects mechanical units fallen in battle
alchemy - generates potions every day/3 days/5 days
and one more... suggestions?

OK, I dunno if this is possible. Maybe these changes are just to big for Equilbris, but I would like to see them. If you don't like these changes, tell me why.
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Akul
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Unread postby Akul » 13 Mar 2006, 19:12

Scouting is alredy Great Skill. Seamanship is improved with equilibrius so that it acts like tactics skill on the sea. I heard that GM or M Seamanship in next version of Equilibrius will act like Seaman's Hat (No penality when entering ships)
I am back and ready to... ready to... post things.

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HodgePodge
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Unread postby HodgePodge » 13 Mar 2006, 19:44

Sauron wrote:Scouting is alredy Great Skill. Seamanship is improved with equilibrius so that it acts like tactics skill on the sea. I heard that GM or M Seamanship in next version of Equilibrius will act like Seaman's Hat (No penality when entering ships)
I agree that with the Equilibris improvement(s) Seamanship has become quite a useful skill, especially if there is water on the map. :rofl:

Anyhow, the no boarding a ship penalty would be a great addition to M and/or GM Seamanship. Hooray! Bring on the next version of Equilibris :tsup:
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Black Ghost
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Unread postby Black Ghost » 13 Mar 2006, 21:37

Seamanship should be removed. Or at least, it shouldn't be a part of scouting. If you removed seamanship and replaced it with something more useful, like, assassination (for more info on assassination, see below) it would make scouting a lot more useful in many maps. In fact, there are many maps where seamanship is useless, or close to useless and still not disabled.
I doubt that removing seamanship will be reasonable. If you'll get rid off it any other player may wish to remove other skill...
So I'm rather against it...

I agree that it may be useless on the maps without seas, but you can still disable it in the editor.
In general however, it's nice combination of sextants+s.m.hut, and I absolutely agree with Sauron and HodgePodge about M/GM in Eq.

Additionally any improvemenst of Level Up window could enable you to choose the skills you need, and leave the useless...

I've given a suggestion which might be worth of considering and probably enhancing:
there would be 4 skill options:

1) current basic skill (for knight tactic, druid nature m., etc)
2) another current basic skill (mabye there 4-th skills like charm, m-resistance, summoning, ect)
3*) magic skill from alligned castle (for druid nature/life magic)
3**) nonmagic skill from alligned castle (for knight combat/nobility)
4) any other skill not displayed in previous options [for each level up magic/nonmagic/magic/nonmagic... just to give the suitable varity]

*for spellcaster hero
*for nonspellcaster hero

As for barb:

1) Combat
2) other Combat Skill (like m-resistance)
3) any magic school
4) any other nonmagic skill

And after the current basic skills would be max. gained (life/healing/spirituality/resurrection) the menu would like this:

1*) magic skill from alligned castle (for druid nature/life magic)
1**) nonmagic skill from alligned castle (for knight combat/nobility)
2) another skill from alligned castle (like 4th ones)
3) any other nonmagic skill
4) any other magic skill

Well, mabye it's not perfect but the idea is to have an ordered menu. I suppose it won't disable any class and will be usefull for choosing the best class for our hero in current scenario

What do you think about it? Is it possible? Mabye sth needs to be changed or you have other good idea about developing our hero?

rhomboidspace
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Unread postby rhomboidspace » 13 Mar 2006, 22:22

Sauron wrote:Scouting is alredy Great Skill. Seamanship is improved with equilibrius so that it acts like tactics skill on the sea. I heard that GM or M Seamanship in next version of Equilibrius will act like Seaman's Hat (No penality when entering ships)
actually it's already in there, it starts at the expert level
Black Ghost wrote:
Seamanship should be removed. Or at least, it shouldn't be a part of scouting. If you removed seamanship and replaced it with something more useful, like, assassination (for more info on assassination, see below) it would make scouting a lot more useful in many maps. In fact, there are many maps where seamanship is useless, or close to useless and still not disabled.
I doubt that removing seamanship will be reasonable. If you'll get rid off it any other player may wish to remove other skill...
So I'm rather against it...

I agree that it may be useless on the maps without seas, but you can still disable it in the editor.
In general however, it's nice combination of sextants+s.m.hut, and I absolutely agree with Sauron and HodgePodge about M/GM in Eq.

Additionally any improvemenst of Level Up window could enable you to choose the skills you need, and leave the useless...

I've given a suggestion which might be worth of considering and probably enhancing:
there would be 4 skill options:

1) current basic skill (for knight tactic, druid nature m., etc)
2) another current basic skill (mabye there 4-th skills like charm, m-resistance, summoning, ect)
3*) magic skill from alligned castle (for druid nature/life magic)
3**) nonmagic skill from alligned castle (for knight combat/nobility)
4) any other skill not displayed in previous options [for each level up magic/nonmagic/magic/nonmagic... just to give the suitable varity]

*for spellcaster hero
*for nonspellcaster hero

As for barb:

1) Combat
2) other Combat Skill (like m-resistance)
3) any magic school
4) any other nonmagic skill

And after the current basic skills would be max. gained (life/healing/spirituality/resurrection) the menu would like this:

1*) magic skill from alligned castle (for druid nature/life magic)
1**) nonmagic skill from alligned castle (for knight combat/nobility)
2) another skill from alligned castle (like 4th ones)
3) any other nonmagic skill
4) any other magic skill

Well, mabye it's not perfect but the idea is to have an ordered menu. I suppose it won't disable any class and will be usefull for choosing the best class for our hero in current scenario

What do you think about it? Is it possible? Mabye sth needs to be changed or you have other good idea about developing our hero?
you're asking for alot there, additions to the interface are never easy with out the source code. if you look at the necromancy/summoning menu that was added you'll realize that it's actually a program working above the normal program that's why you can open the menu and also open another menu at the same time in the normal game this isn't doable but because equilibris is a patcher program and not completely built into the game it is, and it is also why the game crashes when you do that, even in WoG there are alot of menu' added but they're all not part of the normal code they're patcher code

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HodgePodge
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Unread postby HodgePodge » 13 Mar 2006, 23:10

rhomboidspace wrote:
Sauron wrote:Scouting is alredy Great Skill. Seamanship is improved with equilibrius so that it acts like tactics skill on the sea. I heard that GM or M Seamanship in next version of Equilibrius will act like Seaman's Hat (No penality when entering ships)
actually it's already in there, it starts at the expert level
You're right! :embarrased: What I was really thinking about was Protection from Whirlpools. Maybe the Equilibris Team will include Protection from Whirlpools with M or GM Seamanship. :-D
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Grumpy Old Wizard
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Unread postby Grumpy Old Wizard » 14 Mar 2006, 12:37

Protection from whirlpools is a great idea! :-D

GOW

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Black Ghost
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Unread postby Black Ghost » 14 Mar 2006, 21:32

@rhomboidspace
you're asking for alot there, additions to the interface are never easy with out the source code. if you look at the necromancy/summoning menu that was added you'll realize that it's actually a program working above the normal program that's why you can open the menu and also open another menu at the same time in the normal game this isn't doable but because equilibris is a patcher program and not completely built into the game it is, and it is also why the game crashes when you do that, even in WoG there are alot of menu' added but they're all not part of the normal code they're patcher code
You're right that it's exttemly difficult to do, or even impossible, but some changes (I must admit that 4 skills windows are too ambitious) should be done, to make the develope-tree much more predictable and gain necessary class or skills quicker. And this is probably possible.
Btw. I wouldn't have dreamed about if I haven't seen beautifully ordered new creature stats menu:
http://equilibris.celestialheavens.com/ ... resist.jpg

and if this would be too time consuming even to cosider it for Eq-team programmers, I agree that it'd be better to focus on their main goals and left the unrralistic idea.

***

I like the idea with whirpools.

I'm not sure, but there's lack of boarding penalty changes description for Seamanship in Eq.

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chaosgorgon
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Unread postby chaosgorgon » 17 Mar 2006, 02:00

hmm, maybe to subclasses could be aviable new skills???

u know.... a crusader, with basic, hmm...-im really thinking :D -.....retaliation skills??, basic 2 retaliations -can retaliate 2 attacks-, advanced 3, expert 4, the skill could be pasive or as a new added spell

and every subclasses with a kind of new skill -with only 3 upgrates-, so no master or GM, to make the things simpler

guess the game needs buffs and skills to bust low level monsters

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Dalai
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Unread postby Dalai » 20 Mar 2006, 20:48

HodgePodge wrote:What I was really thinking about was Protection from Whirlpools. Maybe the Equilibris Team will include Protection from Whirlpools with M or GM Seamanship. :-D
Excellent idea! B-) As soon as we can, we will include it as a bonus to some skill. Probably, there will be an artifact for that too. :creative:
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theGryphon
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Unread postby theGryphon » 21 Mar 2006, 02:14

I look forward to seeing the current state of advanced skills. I look forward to seeing it all!!! :-D
Many many thanks to the Equilibris team that gave me (us?) such an excitement (even more than Heroes V could) out of a deceased game!

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Black Ghost
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Unread postby Black Ghost » 21 Mar 2006, 21:03

Dalai wrote:
HodgePodge wrote:What I was really thinking about was Protection from Whirlpools. Maybe the Equilibris Team will include Protection from Whirlpools with M or GM Seamanship. :-D
Excellent idea! B-) As soon as we can, we will include it as a bonus to some skill. Probably, there will be an artifact for that too. :creative:
Sounds great.

Btw. I'm always with you and support your Team in soul-bound :D

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TheUnknown
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Unread postby TheUnknown » 11 Jun 2006, 01:44

Can you make Scouting or Semanship or Stealth able to when you see the enemy (right click or show on him) it shows how much experience you would gain from the fight with him? If you win that is.


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