Spell discusions

Official forum of the Equilibris mod to Heroes of Might and Magic IV (Russian forum)

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Le_Faucheur
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Postby Le_Faucheur » Jul 14 2006, 20:38

the plague could do more damages(could be level 4 and do as many damage as poisonous attack)since death has only 5 spells level 4,and lots of spells level 2 and 3.also inferno and armaggeddon could be a bit more powerful.

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Postby Le_Faucheur » Aug 30 2006, 13:32

chaos:
level 3:Firewall:used like the quicksand,it has the same size,and every creature
which crosses it, receives damages.does 40 + 4X the level of the hero who casts the spell
(like a fireball)
level 3 or 4:fog:7X7 squares.gives + 50% range defense,slows down units.
we should also be able to see which creatures will be hit by the spell "sparks"

death:
level 3:mass dispersion ray
level 4:death ripple:inflicts damages to all living creatures on the battlefield except
demons.does 30 + 3X the level of the hero

order:
level 4:magic missile:targets one single stack.no need to see the target.
number of damages:80 + 8X the level of the hero
level 3 or 4:mass displacement:cast displacement on all the creatures on an area of 5X5(or 7X7)

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Postby okrane » Sep 1 2006, 22:26

how about these two(names suck):

deploy curse/ deploy all curses should be chaos and do the reverse of steal enchantments: place a random curse/ all curses affecting your army to the enemy.

transfer energy: transfers a number of mana points to a friendly creature or hero... should be order 3rd level or so, and transfer 10 + level of hero MP

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Postby Le_Faucheur » Sep 4 2006, 12:28

I thought about those 3 spells,and transfer energy shouldn't be too powerful.
imagine if you use it on angels...

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Postby okrane » Sep 5 2006, 8:24

i don't think it would be too powerful, because it would cost you the mana to cast the spell and then the mana transfered, and after the angels will have to cast res themselves. It isn't stronger than casting resurection yourself.... and you would have to have the angels in the first place... lots of them for more effectiveness...
I'd just like to have a spell or a certain way to replenish the mana of some creatures which, after their mana is gone, they become useless(like genies or fairy dragons)
I mean I was a few times in the situation when casting mass slow and mass fervor with my genies, the enemy dispelled and then my genies had barely no more spellpoints... I became much more fund of nagas since Equilibris patch...

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Postby Le_Faucheur » Sep 5 2006, 12:44

in another way,equilibris balanced the genies but unbalanced the nagas.

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Postby okrane » Sep 6 2006, 10:52

yeah, well maybe it did...
i just think it could be a way of introducing this spell w/o making spellcasters overpovered... I mean it's a spell you might get it you might not... if you get it the only usefulness is when having casters in your army, if you do not then it's just plain useless... of course it would enable lepricauns for example to cast many fortunes, but hey since it would be a 3-4 level spell it would be the same to mass fortune for example...
Anyway we can alter the number of spellpoints transfered... i think balance is about that.. finding the right number...

As an off topic: Could the equilibris team give us a list of changes in the new patch... the ones already implemented and the ones to be implemented.., because i would like to see which of the ideas proposed here will actually be in the new game...

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Postby DaemianLucifer » Sep 10 2006, 17:55

Is it posible to make DD spells do SP^2 times some damage?Or SP^3,or something like that.It would really make them much more usefull later.

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Postby rhomboidspace » Sep 10 2006, 20:32

DaemianLucifer wrote:Is it posible to make DD spells do SP^2 times some damage?Or SP^3,or something like that.It would really make them much more usefull later.

only problem with that is there's not any spell power attribute

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Postby DaemianLucifer » Sep 10 2006, 21:23

rhomboidspace wrote:
DaemianLucifer wrote:Is it posible to make DD spells do SP^2 times some damage?Or SP^3,or something like that.It would really make them much more usefull later.

only problem with that is there's not any spell power attribute


Okay,level^2 then.

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Postby Le_Faucheur » Sep 16 2006, 13:44

you mean level X2 or level²?
the first one would be ridiculous

the second one would be ridiculous until you reach a really good level (30?40?) and insane with very strong heroes.

you mean level X2 or level²?
the first one would be ridiculous

the second one would be ridiculous until you reach a really good level (30?40?) and insane with very strong heroes.


current power of spells:

Chaos:
sparks: 20 + 2 X the level of the hero
magic arrow: 30 + 3 X the level of the hero
firebolt: 50 + 5 X the level of the hero
fire ball: 40 + 4 X the level of the hero
fire ring: 40 + 4X the level of the hero
lightning: 70 + 7 X the level of the hero
hell: 40 + 4 X the level of the hero
implosion: 90 + 9 X the level of the hero
armaggeddon: 40 + 4 X the level of the hero
chain lightning: 80 + 8 X the level of the hero
disintegrate: 110 + 11 X the level of the hero


Death:
poison: 10 + 1 X the level of the hero
animate skeletons: 7 + 0,65 X the level of the hero
life drain: 10 + 1 X the level of the hero
poisonous attack: 20 + 2 X the level of the hero
animate deads: 50 + 5 X the level of the hero
animate ghosts: 4,5 + 0,4125 X the level of the hero
plague: 10 + 1 X the level of the hero
animate vampires: 1 + 0,1375 X the level of the hero
death call: 90 + 9 X the level of the hero
hand of death: 1 + 0,1 X the level of the hero


Nature:
summon sprites: 4 + 0,3 X the level of the hero
summon wolfs: 4,5 + 0,3875 X the level of the hero
summon leprechauns: 6 + 0,4125 X the level of the hero
summon tigers: 1,5 + 0,125 X the level of the hero
summon elves: 1,5 + 0,1625 X the level of the hero
summon satyrs: 2 + 0,175 X the level of the hero
summon water ele: 1,5 + 0,1625 X the level of the hero
summon air ele: 2 + 0,1875 X the level of the hero
summon fire ele: 2 + 0,2 X the level of the hero
summon earth ele: 2,5 + 0,225 X the level of the hero
summon griffins: 1,5 + 0,1625 X the level of the hero
summon unicorns: 2 + 0,2 X the level of the hero
summon waspworts: 2,5 + 0,225 X the level of the hero
summon mantis: 0,5 + 0,0625 X the level of the hero
summon phoenix: 0,5 + 0,0625 X the level of the hero
summon faerie dragons: 0,5 + 0,0625 X the level of the hero


Life:
bind wounded: 30 + 3 X the level of the hero
retribution: 10 + 1 X the level of the hero
holy word: 45 + 4 X the level of the hero
healing: 50 + 5 X the level of the hero
divine shield: 50 + 5 X the level of the hero
regeneration: 20 + 2 X the level of the hero
holy shout: 30 + 3 X the level of the hero
mass healing: 25 + 2 X the level of the hero
guardian angel: 1 + 0,1 X the level of the hero
divine intervention: 50 + 5 X the level of the hero


Order:
magic fist: 20 + 2 X the level of the hero
create illusion: 40 + 4 X the level of the hero
icebolt: 40 + 4 X the level of the hero
banishment: 110 + 11 X the level of the hero
phantom image: 80 + 8 X the level of the hero

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Postby okrane » Jan 9 2007, 17:23

ok... I see there haven't been posts in a while here so I would like to
ask if there would be any new spells in equilibris... cause I think lots of the ideas here are really good

second I would like to propose something else:

Seems to me that for certain spell schools the skill that increases their efficiency is pretty much useless: mostly I speak of order and life
I mean for order the only skills that increase in power are Magic Fist, Ice Bolt and the two illusion creating spells, and for life there are just the healing ones...
Furthermore, it seems a bit non realistic that when casting a spell like bloodlust with a level 40 hero the increase is the same as with a level 1.

So I would suggest, if it is possible, that all spells get an efficiency formula, like the destructive and summoning ones.
I mean for example(and the numbers should be taken as an example) Bloodlust should increase the attack of a stack by

15%(1 + 0.2*level_of_Pyromancy) + 1%*level_of_hero

or anyway something similar to the formulas DD and Summoning spells are calculated.

This way empowerers and cursers would become stronger as they level up, and it would be more interesting to cast your curses with the stronger heroes.

What do you think?

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Postby Dalai » Jan 9 2007, 17:59

I would like to ask if there would be any new spells in equilibris... cause I think lots of the ideas here are really good

Yes, some ideas are good indeed. There are chances for new spells, but they are pretty low. :(

all spells get an efficiency formula

Lack of that is one of few flaws of Magic system in H-4. But changing it would change a game dramatically, effectively creating new game.

So these ideas would fit H-6, not H-4.

15%(1 + 0.2*level_of_Pyromancy) + 1%*level_of_hero

You forgot to divide it by number of creatures in target stack ;)
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Postby DaemianLucifer » Jan 10 2007, 19:47

Le_Faucheur wrote:you mean level X2 or level²?
the first one would be ridiculous

the second one would be ridiculous until you reach a really good level (30?40?) and insane with very strong heroes.


The second one,because the way it is now,DD spells are quite good in the begining,but lame later.However,if it was to the power of,spells would remain dangerous against strong armies as well.

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Postby Galactygon » Jan 15 2007, 18:25

I developed a nice formula for exponential spells. Using a modifier of (Base + (Spell Effect) * (Level^1.Level)) would be better than simply squaring the level (that would be ridiculus).

For example, at level 9, assuming you have GM pyromancy, GM sorcery, disintegrate would cause 692 damage (330+33*(9^1.09)) rather than 627 damage (330+33*9). At level 40, disintegrate would cause 6103 damage (330+33*(40^1.40)) rather than 1650 (330+33*40) damage.

The same should be applied for healing, summoning, and other non-damaging spells that increase with power (such as hand of death).

At the beginning of the game, the difference is barely noticable, but by higher levels (especially 30+), spells that are based on levels don't fall behind other spells not based on level modifiers. So hypnotize might not be much stronger than disintegrate or armageddon... the way it should be.

By the way, the damage multiplier of armageddon should be upped by 1 or 2, since it causes the same amount of damage as Fireball and Inferno.

I am hoping these changes are implementable.

-Galactygon

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Postby Le_Faucheur » Jan 19 2007, 20:49

seems good.

what about:

nature:
level 1 stone skin: also protect your stack against petrification

chaos:
level 3 fog : a large area of smoke. stacks who are in it are slowed down, but get +50% ranged defense.

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Postby Metathron » Jan 23 2007, 17:28

nature:
level 1 stone skin: also protect your stack against petrification


Do you mean the stone gaze of the medusa?

chaos:
level 3 fog : a large area of smoke. stacks who are in it are slowed down, but get +50% ranged defense.


I'm not sure I really see the point in this one. I guess you could cast it on your own shooters/casters (well, shooter and no casters in the case of Chaos, as there's only the medusa) to deal damage to enemy shooters without fear of too much reprisal. Or cast it on enemy walkers that will be dealt with from afar by casters? Again, not that useful for chaos except for the hero himself (if sorcerer).
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Postby Le_Faucheur » Jan 23 2007, 19:54

yeah the stone gaze.

hum, order has slow, death has tireness (probably not the good name but...), nature has quicksand, so I thought, why not chaos?

magic fist could be a physical attack, and ignore the magic resistance like in heroes 5 since it's weaker than magic arrow.

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Postby Dalai » Jan 24 2007, 10:30

Le_Faucheur wrote:hum, order has slow, death has tireness (probably not the good name but...), nature has quicksand, so I thought, why not chaos?

... life has Song of peace, nature has Waspsworm, chaos has Confusion and Cloud of confusion.
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Postby Le_Faucheur » Jan 27 2007, 14:17

I only thought about slowing spells.


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