Spell discusions

[Black Ghost]

And I just don't see what Armageddon is good for unless it's empowered. I have never ever found any use for it.

I don't know exactly where it was, but somwhere Dalai wrote about enhancing armageddon power and descripting it as fire-based spell. So old good mass anihilation comes back
Imagine only Fire Guard, efreeti and black dragons...

Btw, you wrote chaos lev 5 spells are boring due to the fact thay all are dd. They're but varied in the effect (mean number of targets)
Moreover devastating magic doesn't give you many possibilities other than smashing the enemy, however, the Lust, Slayer, F-Strike, Reflex, H-Health are just awesome

[cherko]

Ywah, and I wanna see more spells like those.

And don't mistake conjuration with evocation/invocation.

[Black Ghost]

More spells? hmmm, I'd say there are more chaos non-dd spells than dd ones
Btw. Chaos seems to have really varied magic:
dd: ~10
boosts: mentioned in previous post, ~8
control: confusion, cloud, shackles, mirror, misfortune ~6
other: like smoke, mana flare, spark? but these really suck

What would you like to see new in chaos?
I've considered Mass Haste, but I don't think entire imitating Nature is good. Chaos is good enough even without M.Haste.

Especially I'd like to see new Order spells, as the faction of magic has the fewest spells.
@DaemianLucifer

aura of frost - lvl 4 - when creature is hit,there is 20% chance attacker will be frozen for 2 rounds

IMO very good, just imagine ice demon ability/potion of cold as a spell casted on nagas (3hand attack); combined with blind it may quicky paralize any army and gain advantage on the battlefield (excelent for contol)

I also thought about 4lev. mass spell "Chill" simmilar to potion of fire resistance/dragon scale shield
(against fire magic and fire based attacks of chaos & nature units)
Spells based on potions effects (endurance, h.health) seem to be very useful

Hmm, intriguing might be Ice Ring (simmilar to Fire Ring, but weaker due to no order skill simmilar to conjuration) as before M & GM icebolt, ilusions and slow seem to be most useful...
However, I'm worried about being Order too offensive...

[gravyluvr]

What about a Level 4-5 spell for Chaos - Mass Cat Reflexes?

[theGryphon]

Mass Cat Reflexes is a good idea imo, but it should definitely be level 5. Even that may be overpowered. what about a cat reflexes spell to be cast over an area, as large as cloud of confusion for instance? All friend creatures/heroes in the area get cat reflexes. But we already have 3 level 5 chaos spells, right?
Btw, does anyone have the information on how many spells are there for each level for each faction? I think we need a balance there, we should have equal number of spells for factions.

[Akul]

Number of spells with and without equilibrius mod:

Life Magic: 34 (!) spells (32 without equilibrius)
Death Magic: 29 spells (25 without equilibrius)
Order Magic: 28 spells (27 without equilibrius)
Chaos Magic: 29 spells (27 without equilibrius)
Nature Magic: 31 spells
Nature + demonology: 5 spells
---------------------------------------------------------------
Total: 156 spells (147 wothout equilibrius)

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For comparison:
---------------------------------------------------------------
HOMM3:

Air Magic: 17 spells
Earth Magic: 17 spells
Fire Magic: 16 spells
Water Magic: 17 spells
---------------------------------------------------------------
Total: 69 spells (All schools + Magic Arrow + Vision (which appear in every school))

---------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------------
HOMM5 (by INFO I have right now):

Light Magic: 10 spells
Dark Magic: 10 spells
Summoning Magic: 14 spells
Destruction Magic: 10 spells
---------------------------------------------------------------
Total: 44 spells

[Metathron]

Compared to H4, spells in H5 are going to suck. At least quantity-wise. I hope they do something about it.

[cherko]

What about a Level 4-5 spell for Chaos - Mass Cat Reflexes?

OMG, I think Cat Reflexes is imbalanced! What if you could make a L5 spell, Mass Reflexes, which gives all troops a 20-70% chance to strike twice.

@ Black Ghost

Nagas only attack one target, don't they?

@ Sauron

Nice stats. I think we should try and reach 40 spells for every school.
We need more Order spells.

[Akul]

@ Black Ghost

Nagas only attack one target, don't they?

Not in Equilibrius. In equi, they attack like cerebrus

@ Sauron

Nice stats. I think we should try and reach 40 spells for every school.
We need more Order spells.

Thanks
Reaching at least 35 spells for every school would show Nival and Ubi how magic system should look like.

[Black Ghost]

Reaching at least 35 spells for every school would show Nival and Ubi how magic system should look like.

Absolutely agree
But at least 30. Some like Wards are just the same but affect other factions...
So the life can have 35.

[Black Ghost]

@Cherko

there are 3 L5's and they all deal damage. Boring.

What about "Dragon Flame" ? Target unit gets Arc-Breath (like MegaDragon)
It'll be excelent for chaotic, unpredictable magic of Chaos-> it can harm buddies as well when mis-used

[theGryphon]

OK, I went ahead and looked for the information that I've asked Btw, thanks Sauron. Below is even more detailed spells statistics:

Level: Eq. / No Eq. (current spells) [notes]

Chaos

Lvl1: 7 / 6 (B.lust, Spark, F. Aura, Haste, M. Arrow, Slayer, Smoke) [Smoke added]
Lvl2: 7 / 6 (Conf., F. Bolt, 1st St., M. Flare, Misfor., S. Shackle, H. Health) [H. Health added]
Lvl3: 6 / 6 (BFrenzy, F. Ring, FBall, Light'g, M. Mirror, M. Slayer)
Lvl4: 6 / 6 (Cloud, Implosion, Inferno, Mass 1st., M. Misfor., Cat R.)
Lvl5: 3 / 3 (Armag'n, C. Light'g, Disintigrate)
Tot: 29 / 27


Death

Lvl1: 5 / 5 (Curse, Poison, Raise S., D. Ray, Weakness) [W moved from lvl2]
Lvl2: 9 / 7 (A. Dead, U. Song, L. Drain, Mire, Fatigue, Sorrow, Canc., P. Attack, Life W.) [Canc. moved from lvl1; P. Attack and Life W. added]
Lvl3: 7 / 6 (Aura, M. Leech, M. Curse, Plague, Raise G., M. Weak., Aging) [M. Weak. moved from lvl4; Aging added]
Lvl4: 5 / 4 (D. Call, M. Sorrow, Sacrifice, Raise V., Terror) [Sacrifice and Raise V. moved from lvl5; Terror added]
Lvl5: 3 / 3 (Hand, M. Canc, Vampiric) [M. Canc. moved from lvl3; Vampiric moved from lvl4]
Tot: 29 / 25 [5 summon demon spells excluded]


Life

Lvl1: 7 / 6 (B. Wound, Bless, Exor., S. Armor, H. Word, S. Ship, Retrib.) [Retrib. moved from lvl2]
Lvl2: 10 / 11 (H. Shield, Defender, Heal, Martyr, Song, Mirth, Wards) [4 Ward spells]
Lvl3: 7 / 5 (C. Armor, H. Shout, M. Bless, M. Heal, Regen., Endurance, M. Exor.) [M. Exor moved from lvl4; Endurance added]
Lvl4: 7 / 7 (M. Fervor, Prayer, Guardian, M. Wards) [4 Ward spells; Guardian moved from lvl5]
Lvl5: 3 / 3 (Divine, Sanctuary, Resurr.) [Resurr. added]
Tot: 34 / 32 [8 Ward spells]


Nature

Lvl1: 7 / 7 (Speed, Path., SSkin, T. Walk, Summon 1st) [3 summon spells]
Lvl2: 7 / 8 (Giant S., Fortune, Snake, Wasp, Summon 2nd) [3 summon spells]
Lvl3: 8 / 7 (Antimagic, M. Speed, Necro. W., QSand, Summon elem.) [4 summon spells; QSand moved from lvl2]
Lvl4: 5 / 5 (M. Fortune, M. Snake, Summon 3rd) [3 summon spells]
Lvl5: 4 / 4 (Dragon S., Summon 4th) [3 summon spells]
Tot: 31 / 31 [16 summon spells]


Order

Lvl1: 6 / 6 (Blur, Disp., M. Fist, Prec., Vision, Cowardice) [Cowardice moved from lvl2]
Lvl2: 8 / 7 (Flight, Icebolt, C. Illusion, Slow, P. Drain, Steal, Dispel, Bind Flyer) [Dispel moved from lvl1; Bind Flyer added]
Lvl3: 7 / 7 (Banish, Forget., M. Dispel, M. Prec., M. Blur, Blind, Phantom) [Blind and Phantom moved from lvl4]
Lvl4: 4 / 4 (Berserk, M. Slow, T. Gate, Teleport) [T. Gate and Teleport moved from lvl3]
Lvl5: 3 / 3 (Hypno., Pain M., Steal All)
Tot: 28 / 27

[theGryphon]

I'm thinking about the following spells/changes, please comment:

Order
- Bind All Flyers: level 4 (too powerful maybe?)
- Mass Flight: level 4 (think about it, it's cool)
- Frost: level 3 (target creature/hero gets the icedemon's freeze ability)
- Move Mass Dispel to level 4 (I think that's where it belongs as it's very powerful)

Nature
- Magic Resistance: level 4 (it's mentioned in Equi changelog, if it's not in already it should, 100% magic resistance to target)
- Mass Giant Strength: level 4 (maybe )
- Mass Terrain Walk: level 3 (I didn't like the name though)

Death
- Life Rip or Life Vortex: level 4 (steals life from all living (non- undead, mechanical, elemental) foes and gives to the caster)
- Raise Bone Dragons: level 4 (raises boneys only from dead (non-bone) dragons, rest of definition similar to other raise spells)
- Move Terror to level 3
- Move Animate Dead to level 1

Chaos
- Fire Shield: level 2 (damage from fire-based-attacks is reduced by 50%)
- Torched Attack: level 3 (makes the target foe's attack a fire-based-attack)
- Thunder Strike: level 4 (gives a friendly target the ability to strike a lightning after its attack, based on creature/hero level, number in stack)
- Change Magic Mirror such that it denies the spell totally with some probability, 25%?

Life
- Increase effect of Endurance

[cherko]

Mass Flight! Mass Flight! That'd be über-cool, and not to owerpowered! Just what order needs!

[theGryphon]

C'mon people comment on my proposals!

Yeah, I like the idea of Mass Flight more, the more I think about it

[Black Ghost]

@gryphonheart

Bind All Flyers: level 4 (too powerful maybe?)

IMO not overpowered like mass Forgetfulness from 3.42.
But isn't it second Mass Slow, which halves the speed both for walkers and flyers?

Mass Flight: level 4 (think about it, it's cool)

Awesome. Very good 4th, just want to see it

Frost: level 3 (target creature/hero gets the icedemon's freeze ability)

Considering between 3 & 4 lev. But mabye you right: lev 3 will be better

Move Mass Dispel to level 4 (I think that's where it belongs as it's very powerful)

Agree

Magic Resistance: level 4 (it's mentioned in Equi changelog, if it's not in already it should, 100% magic resistance to target)

IMO shoul stay lev. 3. Disabled unit to cast any supportive spell on it. Hmm does it negates Phoenix rebirth as well?
edit: I've mis-read... You're not writing about Antimagic... sorry

Mass Giant Strength: level 4 (maybe dontknow )

would be nice I'll have difficulty to chosoe one from so many great lev4 spells...

Mass Terrain Walk: level 3 (I didn't like the name though)

not necessary. too many spells make it less possible to get good spells pack in magic guild\

ife Rip or Life Vortex: level 4 (steals life from all living (non- undead, mechanical, elemental) foes and gives to the caster)

very strong in comparison to holy shout, makes death too agressive

Move Terror to level 3

old, good dispute between terror&blind... I'd like to hear more opinions

Move Animate Dead to level 1

hmm raising any unit on B.Death?! hmm IMO on A.Death it looks better...

Change Magic Mirror such that it denies the spell totally with some probability, 25%?

It's Magic Resistance effect even weaker than M.Resistance 50%(Ogre nature spell). I love Mirror the way it acts...

Increase effect of Endurance

suggesting improving potion of endurance as well?
Spell was even lifted form 2nd lev nature to 3rd life! Don't overpower it...[/b]

[theGryphon]

Thanks Black Ghost!

Bind All Flyers: Yeah, it kinda looks like a 2nd Mass Slow. Actually, it's different in that it only effects flyers and makes them non-flyers. Still, although I like the idea it may not be necessary. I'd like to hear others' thoughts...

Mass Dispel: I insist that it should be level 4.

Magic Resistance: Ogres can cast it!??

to be continued...

[V3N0M]

Hey how about Copy Abilities for Order Magic?
You know like Steal spell only you steal the abilityes of a creature for the duration of combat and give them to a stack of your troops(since in H4 every creature has at least 1 ability). 4 example you copy the Blind ability from the unicorns or life ward from the demons. I don't know if it's possible and maybe it's to comlicated... but interesting.

[Black Ghost]

@ V3NOM
interesting idea, but very messy...

Such spell should affect only abilities possible to copy by magic, like (double strike= c.reflex)

And there are lots of abilities which cannot be given by any spell of any school : Spellcaster (game breaker when copied), 3hand attack, ranged, insubstantial, area attack, unlimited retaliation etc.

All in all it this spell could give too big advance or would be just useless in many situations. IMO it imbalances the game...

[Black Ghost]

@ Gryphonheart

Thanks Black Ghost!

my pleasure

Magic Resistance: Ogres can cast it!??

I've misunderstood that you were writing about antimagic (100%) as lev.4

BUT
there is actually M. Resistance lev 3 spell in Ogre Mage's spell book giving 50%. (based probably on effect of potion of resistant, or sth like that)

IMO Ogres should cast normal nature spell Antimagic (consumes all 5 mana like M.Resist) and makes it fully immune to magic like Dragon or Gnasher. Suits perfectly to Might. The best possible defence against nasty Order/Death/Chaos but not game-breaker (disables any supportive spells, casted only once, affect 1 target)