Spell discusions

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Akul
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Spell discusions

Postby Akul » Mar 9 2006, 13:45

Which spells would you want to appear in Equilibrius mod?

This are my ideas:

-GM Life: Summon Angel
-Death: Cloud of Darkness - unexplores the territory where it is casted for everyone besides the caster
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Postby cherko » Mar 9 2006, 21:16

I would like to see summoning for chaos magic. After all, they have conjuration. And I don't think elves or satyrs should be summonable. In that case, you might as well make gargantuans summonable. It doesn't really make sense. Most humanoid-creatures shouldn't be summonable. Angels would be nice for summoning, and leprechauns should stay.
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Postby Black Ghost » Mar 9 2006, 21:34

GM Life: Summon Angel

:| Isn't Life Magic good enough? What's more, instead healing/blessing/ect spells which are life's speciality you'd summon creatures and it's characteristic to Nature. Btw. angels are far better than ex. F.Dragons or Mantises (that's why there's no Summon Gargantuan)

I don't like mixing faction specialities, it kills their unique character....

Cloud of Darkness

it's simmilar to Velon of Darkness form h3, isnt it? I like the idea as I miss really good adv. spells...

My spell suggestion:

for Order:
lev.5, [12 mana]
Dimension Door- spell radius 11 movement points (single lev.1 hero has normally 22 movement points). Limit: able cast 3 times/turn and consumes 7 mov. points

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Postby Black Ghost » Mar 9 2006, 21:42

cherko wrote: After all, they have conjuration.

To conjure deadly Lightnings, Fireballs & Implosions...
And I don't think elves or satyrs should be summonable.

Why? Elves doesn't suck. They are just a bit weaker than White Tigers.
As for Satyrs they are simmilar to Leprechaun in usefulness: summon & cast Mirth (2x). and you get a defending body as well with stats simmilar but worse than WT.

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Postby cherko » Mar 9 2006, 21:42

Hmmm... I think we need lvl 6 spells! Or maybe lvl 5 spells with double mana cost.
Anyway I think chaos should have summoning spells. Chaos has a skill called 'Conjuration' and hardly any of the chaos spells are conjuration.
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Postby Black Ghost » Mar 9 2006, 21:56

Conjuring doesn't 100% mean summoning. There IS a diffrence. And please don't create common magic (like in previous parts of the game) with summoning, control, direct dmg, etc spells.
Death's aim is to animate dead and curse the opp.
Life is to supprt troops, heal them and resurrect when they die
Chaos conjures devastating spells and makes it's armies more agressive
Order speciality is to control the situation on the battlefield (units and magic)
Nature makes it's armies stronger and more numerouse

And it shouldn't be changed. H4 is diffrent game than H1-3 !!!

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Postby gravyluvr » Mar 9 2006, 22:44

I think Mother Nature needs two DD spells.

One would be at a low level and the other a high level spell.

Elemental Attack (or some other cute name for solo DD)

Elemental Storm would be the higher level DD spell (Mass)
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Postby Grumpy Old Wizard » Mar 9 2006, 23:31

Black Ghost wrote:Conjuring doesn't 100% mean summoning. There IS a diffrence. And please don't create common magic (like in previous parts of the game) with summoning, control, direct dmg, etc spells.
Death's aim is to animate dead and curse the opp.
Life is to supprt troops, heal them and resurrect when they die
Chaos conjures devastating spells and makes it's armies more agressive
Order speciality is to control the situation on the battlefield (units and magic)
Nature makes it's armies stronger and more numerouse

And it shouldn't be changed. H4 is diffrent game than H1-3 !!!


You hit the nail on the head. :)

The factions should each continue to have its unique emphasis. Any spells added should be in line with their specialties.

If DD is addeed it should automatically be a disabled spell unless the mapmaker enables it. Otherwise it will break a lot of maps that are already made.

GOW

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Postby HodgePodge » Mar 9 2006, 23:34

gravyluvr wrote:I think Mother Nature needs two DD spells.

One would be at a low level and the other a high level spell.

Elemental Attack (or some other cute name for solo DD)

Elemental Storm would be the higher level DD spell (Mass)

I too would like to see Nature have at least one spell that dealt damage, even if just low level damage like Order's Magic Fist or Ice Bolt.

Or maybe a high-level mass-damage spell like Hurricane or Tornado or Mud Slide. :-D
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Postby DaemianLucifer » Mar 10 2006, 7:10

For nature:
aura of thorns - lvl 3 - deals damage to every unit adjacent to the creature every round.
entangle - lvl 2 - holds creature in place for 2 rounds.

For order:
aura of frost - lvl 4 - when creature is hit,there is 20% chance attacker will be frozen for 2 rounds

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Postby Metathron » Mar 10 2006, 15:57

I agree with Black Ghost and Grumpy Old Wizard. The magic schools as they exist are unique in their own right and intermingling spells that are similar to those of other schools would disrupt this originality.

Dimension door sounds tempting but I too worry about it giving too great an advantage to the hero wielding it. But with some heavy restrictions it could work.

I don't miss any direct damage spells with nature, to be honest. You summon a wide array of creatures and there's your damage!

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Postby Grumpy Old Wizard » Mar 10 2006, 17:56

Metathron wrote:I agree with Black Ghost and Grumpy Old Wizard. The magic schools as they exist are unique in their own right and intermingling spells that are similar to those of other schools would disrupt this originality.

Dimension door sounds tempting but I too worry about it giving too great an advantage to the hero wielding it. But with some heavy restrictions it could work.

I don't miss any direct damage spells with nature, to be honest. You summon a wide array of creatures and there's your damage!


It is not so much the advantage DD gives a player that I worry about. DD is a nightmare from a mapmaker's point of view unless he wants his map to be totally open. With DD quest gates and obstacles mean nothing and the player will also miss placed events that the mapmaker meant to be triggered.

That is why if it is added as a spell it must be initially disabled unless the mapmaker enables it. Even then the player could possibly get a DD scroll from a treasure site such as an Ivory Tower unless DD is also disabled there somehow.

I repeat DD will ruin many maps that are already made if it is added and can be obtained in any way without specifically enabling it in the editor.

GOW

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Postby Akul » Mar 10 2006, 18:06

Why are we still discussing mixing effects from different scholls? :|
All seem to be of the same opinion.
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Postby cherko » Mar 10 2006, 18:43

Not me. I've always conjured creatures in baldur's gate, morrowind or any other similar rpg. Can't you make smth similair to demonology, conjuration+nature magic summons chaos creatures? It'd make sense, and it wouldn't ruin the balance too much, except for the fact that chaos and nature are linked, not like death and nature.
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Postby Akul » Mar 10 2006, 20:37

cherko wrote:Not me. I've always conjured creatures in baldur's gate, morrowind or any other similar rpg. Can't you make smth similair to demonology, conjuration+nature magic summons chaos creatures? It'd make sense, and it wouldn't ruin the balance too much, except for the fact that chaos and nature are linked, not like death and nature.


I also conjured theme in all those games. But not all games use the same word for all things. Take H1 and H4 sorcerers. In H1-3 (Gem in H3), they were druids, but in H4 they are totaly opposite.
The same rule is for other games too. Somewhere they are this, and somewhere something else.
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Postby Black Ghost » Mar 11 2006, 9:29

1. As you know I'm against DD spells for nature.

2. DaemianLucifer wrote:
ntangle - lvl 2 - holds creature in place for 2 rounds.

as for entangle it's unnecessary since there's Wasp Swarm (it doesn't need upg., it's not Blind or Terror)

It insipred me to give natur spell:
Mantis Grasp- target unit gets 'Binding' ability

3. Metathron wrote:
Dimension door sounds tempting but I too worry about it giving too great an advantage to the hero wielding it. But with some heavy restrictions it could work.

I agree. Mana Portion is to easily acquirable, and there are too much mov. modifyiers... Mabye it could consume 1/3 of total mov, so would ignore mov. boosts and full mana/mov. combos? Limit remais: max. 3/round or for hero 1-15 1/round, 16-25 2/round and for 26+ 3/round

4. summon- order forces of nature to fight on your side
conjure- create( in h4 enhance) something by magic, like firebolt
I'd be grateful if the conjure/summon discussion would finish...

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Postby cherko » Mar 11 2006, 17:46

Right. Let's talk spells. I would want to see a little more interesting spells for chaos. there are 3 L5's and they all deal damage. Boring. And I just don't see what Armageddon is good for unless it's empowered. I have never ever found any use for it.
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Postby DaemianLucifer » Mar 11 2006, 18:03

cherko wrote:Not me. I've always conjured creatures in baldur's gate, morrowind or any other similar rpg.


No,youve summoned them.BG and every other TS...errr,I mean WotSC's game is based on D&D rules,and there are two different scholls:summoning and conjuration.As for morrowind,Im not sure.Conjuration is ussualy a spell with short effect(usually its instant),while summoning means a longer one.

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Postby Metathron » Mar 11 2006, 19:06

cherko wrote:Right. Let's talk spells. I would want to see a little more interesting spells for chaos. there are 3 L5's and they all deal damage. Boring. And I just don't see what Armageddon is good for unless it's empowered. I have never ever found any use for it.


Well, sure, it's not the most widely usable chaos school spell, but it could give you a great kick with creatures who are fire/magic resistant. For asylum, those are the efreeti and the blackies. Cast armageddon a couple of times and you will heavily cripple your opponent.

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Postby Akul » Mar 11 2006, 19:45

DaemianLucifer wrote:
cherko wrote:Not me. I've always conjured creatures in baldur's gate, morrowind or any other similar rpg.


No,youve summoned them.BG and every other TS...errr,I mean WotSC's game is based on D&D rules,and there are two different scholls:summoning and conjuration.As for morrowind,Im not sure.Conjuration is ussualy a spell with short effect(usually its instant),while summoning means a longer one.


For the name of the Holy, please stop arguing about conjuration/summoning!!! They are the same words!! They just sound different!! Conjuration is taken as conjure fire! Conjure wolf or summoning skill in chaos magic would sound silly, don't you think??
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