Scouting changes

Official forum of the Equilibris mod to Heroes of Might and Magic IV (Russian forum)

Would you like some changes for the scouting skills and what would they be?

I would change Scouting only.
0
No votes
I would change Pathfinding only.
0
No votes
I would change Seamanship only.
1
14%
I would change Stealth only.
0
No votes
I would change some or all of them.
1
14%
I would not change anything about scouting.
5
71%
 
Total votes: 7

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TheUnknown
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Scouting changes

Unread postby TheUnknown » 02 Mar 2010, 04:45

Hi here :)

While playing homm 4 I am always concerned about not getting seamanship on a non water map and its not so easy doing it with scouts. In the other case if there's too much of water then getting seamanship is vital, it provides almost all the tactics for fights on a ship. Even unboard penalties are nullified in equilibris.

On the other hand pathfinding is a skill everyone tries to get, it's a core reason to get scouting. 50% movement on land with no penalties, specially great for fast creatures on map.

Scouting is pretty fair and interesting skill for me, every level of it has its use, goes well with all the rest scouting skills.

Stealth, a unique skill that makes you invisible to the enemy with no scouting and creatures if they don't have enough level, also you can level the hero just from walking near the neutrals. Still it's requirements are big hence it has its ups and downs.

Change1: I think that pathfinding and seamanship should be changed, even their names can be changed. In my opinion they should be like:

B.Path the same as is now + 25% move on water (+tactics on ship)
A.Path the same as is now + 50% move on water (+tactics on ship)
E.Path the same as is now + 75% move on water (+tactics on ship)
M.Path (15%-20% movement not sure yet) 100% move on water (+ tactics on ship)
GM.Path (30%-35% movement not sure yet) 150% move on water (+tactics on ship)

B.Seamanship would be called Backstabbing and would provide some map and combat abilities. Description would be "Thieves are hero types that live among the common population and tend to use every means necessary to achieve their goals." For example this ability can give:

B.Backs Every once in a while goes to take drinks for the long roads. (every 5 days gets one potion or vial)
B.Backs Every once in a while finds someones hidden treasure. (every 3 days gets one potion or vial)
E.Backs Every once in a while wins a bet. (every 4 weeks gets a treasure artifact) (like Cloak of Warding) +3 day potion/vial
M.Backs Every once in a while kills someone that prepares his assassination. (every 3weeks gets treasure artifact) (like Cloak of Warding) +3 day potion/vial
GM.Backs Every once in a while finds out about competitive thieves and arranges their assassination. (every 2 weeks gets treasure artifact) (like Cloak of Warding) +3 day potion/vial

Change2: Divide moving and terrain from pathfinding and seamanship skill into two skills like logistics and pathfinding in homm 3, something like:

B. logistics 10%mov on land, (30%-40%) ship
A logistics 20% mov on land, (60%-80%) ship
...
GM logistics 50% movement on land and (150%-200%) on water

B pathfinding reduces terrain movement penalties by 0.25 points.
A path reduces by 0.5 points
E path No penalties on land
M path 50% onboard ship penalty
GM path 0% onboard ship penalty.
Pathfinding also has ship tactics bonuses from basic to grandmaster like seamanship in normal homm 4.

Post what you think about the current or changed scouting skill.

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GreatEmerald
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Unread postby GreatEmerald » 03 Mar 2010, 05:12

The backstabbing skill (although I think it could have a better name) has interesting descriptions :D DARRR PARROT!

I don't really have any issues with seamanship myself TBH, I just don't choose it from the options. After all, that's why you get so many of them.

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Arctic_Slicer
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Unread postby Arctic_Slicer » 03 Mar 2010, 09:08

Honestly I was always fine with the Scouting skill set as is.

Getting seamanship on non-water maps can be kind of obnoxious but this is a problem caused by poor map building in the first place. Seamanship is not a necessary skill to have to learn higher levels of the other scouting skills so on waterless maps it should have been disabled in map properties when the map was built.

The problem with Pathfinding being too unbalancing has more to do with access than it does with does with it being too good. Tactics is quite a game changer as well but thanks to the fact that there are two different heroes of opposite alignment that have the skill anyone with sufficient gold and access to tavern can hire such a hero; this isn't the case for scouting. What would likely fix this is increasing the appearance rate of the scouting skill for knights and lords so that they can choose it as a skill when leveling up.

If we were to do a backstab skill or add backstab as part of the stealth ability it could be a simple combat ability that gives chance of no retaliation and critical(double) damage when attacking an enemy from behind. The chance could be 10% for basic rank and 50% for grandmaster. It would make for some interesting combat situations and make your thief feel more like a might hero. Though I'm not sure such changes are really necessary.
People are products of their own ingenuity; they are who they choose to be.

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pacobac
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Unread postby pacobac » 18 Mar 2010, 11:32

if u wont play seamanship just disabled it on editor....

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TheUnknown
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Unread postby TheUnknown » 18 Mar 2010, 23:36

pacobac wrote:if u wont play seamanship just disabled it on editor....
I still think it should be changed, but on the other hand that solution does wonders : )

have any of you guys played a map with banned seamanship, leadership, diplomacy, magic resistance, resurrection, necromancy, sorcery, summoning and charm :) it just might be a great way to balance the game.


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