Inferno TotE Guide

Feedback for the articles that appear on Celestial Heavens.

Moderators: Moderators, Celestial Heavens Staff

User avatar
vicheron
Marksman
Marksman
Posts: 403
Joined: 06 Jan 2006

Inferno TotE Guide

Postby vicheron » Apr 16 2009, 2:28

If you would like to take a look at the original page visit this link:
http://www.celestialheavens.com/730

User avatar
vicheron
Marksman
Marksman
Posts: 403
Joined: 06 Jan 2006

Inferno TotE Guide

Postby vicheron » Apr 16 2009, 2:28

The Defense skill is actually far more useful for Demon Lords than for Heroes that have high defense attribute. Expert Defense reduces 30% of damage taken and since Demon Lords have low defense attribute, their creatures take more damage, which means the damage reduction reduces more damage. For example, if a creature controlled by a Demon Lord takes 1,000 damage, and the Demon Lord has Expert Defense, the damage is reduced by 300. If instead the creature was controlled by a Ranger with super high defense and takes only 500 damage, Expert Defense would only reduce the damage by 150.

User avatar
Bandobras Took
Genie
Genie
Posts: 1006
Joined: 06 Jan 2006

Postby Bandobras Took » Apr 16 2009, 4:07

Good point; the counterargument is that you're still going to be taking a load of damage -- the Demon Lord's troops still take double the damage of the Ranger's troops in your example.

I'm not too mathematically minded -- is there ever a point at which a low defense+expert defense does more actually good than a high defense with expert defense?
Far too many people speak their minds without first verifying the quality of their source material.

User avatar
ThunderTitan
Perpetual Poster
Perpetual Poster
Posts: 23266
Joined: 06 Jan 2006
Location: Now/here
Contact:

Postby ThunderTitan » Apr 16 2009, 6:18

Sure... if you fundamentally change how maths works...

But of course that doesn't mean that having a high defence won't be a factor in choosing another skill instead of defence... because as you take less dmg it becomes more worth it to do more dmg to the enemy then to take even less dmg.
Disclaimer: May contain sarcasm!
I have never faked a sarcasm in my entire life. - ???
"With ABC deleting dynamite gags from cartoons, do you find that your children are using explosives less frequently?" — Mark LoPresti

Alt-0128: €

Image

Roman
Pixie
Pixie
Posts: 127
Joined: 02 Dec 2006

Inferno TotE Guide

Postby Roman » Apr 16 2009, 7:40

A less cynical answer would be that low defense + expert defense may be better than high defense + expert defense, because those points that would have gone into high defense presumably went to something else that is even more important in the given circumstances.

nevermindspy
Pixie
Pixie
Posts: 145
Joined: 04 Sep 2006

Inferno TotE Guide

Postby nevermindspy » Apr 17 2009, 20:01

Another misjudgment to one of the best heroes in the game, No its not deleb i'm talking about what was reffered here as the indisputable worst - alastor ofcourse.. And let me dispute it, Man did i use to do amazing things with alastor..

Ofcourse you failed to mention his greatest strength which is lowering mana of spell-casters .. I can not stress out enough how important that ability is..

Alastor can take out units other heroes/factions/whatever will never think of messing with( ever... EVER...! )..

Confusion is hardly a spell to take lightly.. Don't work against normal units? Come on - no retaliation? Thats one of the most usefull abilities in the game .. You usually bring your no retaliation units to the battle (shooters , Fast movers) on normal heroes , So here you can just pretty much bring all your units to the battle - sheild them with enormous number of gated creatures and have them act with no retaliation - This hero isn't weak and anyone that thinks so doesn't understand the potential with alastor, If anything Alastor is slightly overpowered.
Edited on Fri, Apr 17 2009, 16:06 by nevermindspy

User avatar
astral76minor
Assassin
Assassin
Posts: 252
Joined: 12 Jun 2006
Location: There I am

Inferno TotE Guide

Postby astral76minor » Apr 18 2009, 3:33

The Inferno and Orc factions benefit, like any other faction, with a very high defense stat, as well as the Defense skill. I can play almost any faction with defense stats in the 40-60 range, and generally win against the computer. Although, this might be a flaw in the AI or the entire game itself. Still, if one plays a game in LAN or online mode against humans, none of the above applies. H5 ToE is a great game for human deathmatches. Also, if Inferno has the Will of Urgash artifacts and the Pendant of Mastery, his gating skill is off the scale. Not to mention, the gating skill bonus of Urgash. Couple this with high defense, and Inferno can take on any faction quite well. (Quote added later)

User avatar
Bandobras Took
Genie
Genie
Posts: 1006
Joined: 06 Jan 2006

Re: Inferno TotE Guide

Postby Bandobras Took » Apr 18 2009, 3:46

nevermindspy wrote:Ofcourse you failed to mention his greatest strength which is lowering mana of spell-casters .. I can not stress out enough how important that ability is...


Bandobras Took wrote:Alastor can take on ranged stacks with fewer casualties, and with sufficient levels, you can take on spellcasting neutral stacks with possibly fewer casualties thanks to his specialty.


I don't know how you can consider this as failing to mention it. ;)

nevermindspy wrote:Confusion is hardly a spell to take lightly.. Don't work against normal units?


Until you get expert Dark Magic troops will still retaliate. Until you get Master of Mind, you can only affect one troop/spellcasting turn.

nevermindspy wrote:This hero isn't weak and anyone that thinks so doesn't understand the potential with Alastor


That's just it -- it's only potential unless you get Dark Magic. The Demon Lord has respectable chances to get Dark Magic, but it is not a sure thing. Every other hero in the Inferno lineup has almost certain chances of getting what they need -- Alastor is very iffy. If neutral spellcasters and/or ranged troops stayed in a single stack, I'd rate Alastor higher.

I'm curious -- of the Inferno heroes, whose opening game would you rate worse than Alastor's?
Far too many people speak their minds without first verifying the quality of their source material.

User avatar
astral76minor
Assassin
Assassin
Posts: 252
Joined: 12 Jun 2006
Location: There I am

Inferno TotE Guide

Postby astral76minor » Apr 18 2009, 4:15

In campaign mode or with only humans for opponents? Your claim is highly variable. In the ideal game, all players (human or not) face their own experiences in a balanced map based upon a number of designs. Is there yet a perfect map? Considering all the options, any faction can struggle to win in a well designed map....
Edited on Sat, Apr 18 2009, 00:29 by astral76minor

User avatar
Bandobras Took
Genie
Genie
Posts: 1006
Joined: 06 Jan 2006

Re: Inferno TotE Guide

Postby Bandobras Took » Apr 18 2009, 13:36

@astral76minor:

Were you addressing that comment to me or to nevermindspy?
Far too many people speak their minds without first verifying the quality of their source material.

User avatar
astral76minor
Assassin
Assassin
Posts: 252
Joined: 12 Jun 2006
Location: There I am

Inferno TotE Guide

Postby astral76minor » Apr 18 2009, 20:03

Agrael is a campaign hero, but he can be used in a regular map. If I knew that the enemy was too much, I would use Agrael. He increases the initiative of troops 1% per hero level which helps with those devils and pit spawn. Oh, the comment was directed to Bandobras. Another interesting effect with Agrael is learning Expert Light magic. I know it defeats the purpose of inferno's nature, but those spells can change the game flow. UPDATE - Agrael cannot be used, but Soveriegn can be used in any map if you enable the hero in the editor. He has the same aura of swiftness skill as Agrael.
Edited on Sat, Apr 18 2009, 21:25 by astral76minor

User avatar
vicheron
Marksman
Marksman
Posts: 403
Joined: 06 Jan 2006

Inferno TotE Guide

Postby vicheron » Apr 19 2009, 2:56

Defense is more of a back up skill for factions with high attack and initiative like Inferno and Dungeon. The main strategy is to invest heavily in attack so that you can kill the enemy before they can even attack you. Even when the enemy survives your attack, their numbers should be diminished so they can't do much damage.

Defense is a necessity for slow factions like Fortress and Necropolis since they're almost guaranteed to go second so they have to survive the initial attack.

The attack oriented factions are more likely to have less casualties but they're riskier since when they do take casualties, it's likely to be a lot. For example, if an Inferno army goes up against a faster enemy or if they don't finish off the enemy fast enough, they'll probably end up losing a lot of troops. The defense oriented factions are likely to take some casualties but they'll rarely take a lot of losses. For example, a Fortress army will probably be attacked first and even if they managed to hit first, they won't be able to finish off the enemy in one swift strike but they'll never lose a huge chunk of their army.

In the end, Sylvan are actually in the worst position since they have fast units but low attack. Of course, their powerful units compensates for this disadvantage. If Rangers gained skills and attributes like the Demon Lord or the Barbarian, they would be really powerful.

User avatar
Infiltrator
CH Staff
CH Staff
Posts: 1071
Joined: 06 Jan 2006

Inferno TotE Guide

Postby Infiltrator » Apr 20 2009, 15:12

What vicheron said. Effectively, defense will block more damage inflicted to inferno troops than it will to defensive town troops. In practice, the demon lord is open to two general paths - you either want to hit hard and fast (focus on attack and initiative) and eliminate the opposition's strong attackers before they get to act, or, defend gate units in to overwhelm the enemy in the forthcoming turns.

Both of them are viable and are more suitable vs certain towns than other ones.

Nice guide btw.
Infiltrator out.

User avatar
astral76minor
Assassin
Assassin
Posts: 252
Joined: 12 Jun 2006
Location: There I am

Inferno TotE Guide

Postby astral76minor » Apr 21 2009, 2:30

I agree completely, the strategy of Inferno is dependant upon the map design. Yes, inferno can be the infiltrator and so can the Orc faction. Then magic might be the only thing in the way (Dark Magic that is).

lumpoor
Leprechaun
Leprechaun
Posts: 35
Joined: 13 Jun 2009
Location: Stockholm, Sweden

Inferno TotE Guide

Postby lumpoor » Jun 16 2009, 21:13

I agree alastor is great. Of course he's worthless without dark magic, but that's quite obvious.

With expert dark magic and master of mind, he can do alot in half a turn. You can block och use normal confusion on a mage or druid, but they'll still be able to do a ranged attack without retaliation. when alastor casts mass confusion, he takes away both ranged attack AND casts. So those back-up spells that mages and druids have will be gone.

Takes away both ranged and magic. Eliminates almost ALL ranged threat. As soon as you cast mass confusion the enemy will have to use only melee.

And oh, it also takes away retaliation

User avatar
Bandobras Took
Genie
Genie
Posts: 1006
Joined: 06 Jan 2006

Postby Bandobras Took » Jun 16 2009, 22:53

All of which has already been mentioned, but without the guarantee of getting Dark Magic, he's not as efficient a choice as the others for a starting Hero.
Far too many people speak their minds without first verifying the quality of their source material.

dragonpainter
Leprechaun
Leprechaun
Posts: 2
Joined: 05 May 2010

Inferno TotE Guide

Postby dragonpainter » May 7 2010, 8:56

I`m stuck in HOMM5 campaign 2 with Agrael - mission 5 when you have to find Tieru but I can`t beat the 30 Emerald Dragons that guard the bridge. My army is only 9 Pit Lords. Please, anybody help.

User avatar
Shad0WeN
Pixie
Pixie
Posts: 119
Joined: 10 Jun 2006

Inferno TotE Guide

Postby Shad0WeN » May 17 2010, 6:51

@dragonpainter

Sounds like you lost too many troops along the way. You may have to restart. The key is just clever battle tactics and smart use of gating to cut your losses. I had Urgash's Call (instant gating) going into this so I found it somewhat easy, even on Heroic difficulty. As far as I can recall there were a few inferno neutral stacks placed that will join your army, but aside from that the only location where you can recruit troops is on the central southern volcanic island (hellhounds, succubi, and pit fiends I think?). I remember arriving there on a day 7 so I was able to get 2 weeks worth of troops before leaving. And later in the scenario I came back for more troops that had accumulated when I was passing nearby and it was convenient to do so. Took the Sextant of the Sea Elves as the starting bonus.
Edited on Mon, May 17 2010, 03:05 by Shad0WeN

User avatar
Elvin
Round Table Hero
Round Table Hero
Posts: 5475
Joined: 27 Aug 2006

Postby Elvin » May 17 2010, 10:46

A few things to add on the guide. Consume corpse is a good way to avoid an opponent resurrecting his fallen units. The demonlord doesn't occasionally get knowledge, at 30% chance you can sometimes get as much as attack.. That really sucks when it happens, esp when you get enlightenment. Rangers actually have a pretty good chance to get attack but regardless they can be more damaging than inferno.

Attack skills in multiplayer usually are power of speed and tactics. Excruciating strike isn't bad but it's not nearly as effective most of the time and tactics will allow devils to reach enemy lines on first turn and of course make charging units harder to block. Of course it depends if you plan to charge or gate.

Machines are a rather crucial skill because inferno has trouble clearing shooters/casters without casualties and you can't always have the right dark spells when you need them. Plague tent should never be picked. Ever.

Destructive are mostly for show, fire and ice effects can be ok but not as much as dark. There is no comparison really.

In dark most useful perks are master of curses to make up for your lack of defense and mind because both mind spells are outrageously good. Mind you continuous mass vulnerability is a good way to take down defensive factions but only after you have established a major advantage. Seal of darkness and suppress dark are great versus necro, especially with hasted vermin draining mana. Dark renewal is another good pick, not because of the regained mana but because it allows you to cast faster should the spell be resisted. I avoid picking mark of the damned before I pick the perks I want because weakening strike will keep appearing.

Sorcery isn't much though I have seen a counterspell build work effectively. Still that's 6 levels usually better spent elsewhere not to mention you are at the mercy of your atb. If you play after enemy hero it can be messy, if you play before he can cast a mass spell and still play before you counterspell again.

Defense is actually one of the most crucial skills for a demonlord, especially vs might factions. Not only because of the main skill but because of power of endurance, that +9 defense takes care of your main weakness. Resistance and hellwrath are not worth your time.

Luck is always good with main pics soldier's luck, resistance and lucky gating. Latter works nicely with swift gating, I usually pick it when I see luck artifacts. A double pit spawn gate is a terrifying sight.

Light magic is perfect for a demonlord, all you need is a couple of low level buffs to make it worth your while. Also it boosts your power of speed/endurance and offers stormwind that is always useful.

Enlightenment is another pick on sight skill, it is just that good. Just hope the stats will go into attack instead of knowledge.


About units.

Vermin are better only when you have the means to hasten them in draining mana but then they won't take much part in the battle. Familiars may have one less speed but they can drain mana and leap into action right away so they are usually better.

Actually you should always pick grunts, not only do they add psychological pressure to the opponent but deal insane dmg as well. And they can attack even in long distance, their only downside is they often die in retaliations but with mass endurance or even better mass confusion they will be fine. One lucky attack from them can kill a whole stack.

Succubi mistresses aren't so hot anymore, seducers are often better. Except vs necro and maybe vs sylvan because they have a decent chance to act before arcane archers. Seducers have the bonus of forcing an opponent to deal with them or suffer the consequences - thus they draw fire from your melee forces.

-3 morale isn't bad by all means but 10 dmg per hell charger is sweet. Certainly helps in dealing short term high dmg something that infeno desperately needs.

Archdevils are easier to use though I cannot deny that teleport other has its uses. Like against a huge crossbow stack hiding behind paladins and shooting your units one by one. Unfortunately that -1 speed hunts a lot and in case of stormwind they are practically useless.


Inferno is a pretty strong town nowadays, it has everything it needs. Heck they can even tackle puppet/frenzy with vampirism which covers their dark vulnerability and triple machines, mass spells from attack/defense can make them good all around.
I, for one, am dying to find out what colour they paint Michael's toenails.
- Metathron

dragonpainter
Leprechaun
Leprechaun
Posts: 2
Joined: 05 May 2010

Inferno TotE Guide

Postby dragonpainter » May 25 2010, 9:38

Thanks!


Return to “Articles”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests