Elwin and Shaera → The Lovers

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Grail Quest
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Elwin and Shaera → The Lovers

Postby Grail Quest » Jun 24 2007, 1:04

If you would like to take a look at the original page visit this link:
http://www.celestialheavens.com/257

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Elwin and Shaera → The Lovers

Postby Grail Quest » Jun 24 2007, 1:04

I think one of the keys to having a relatively easy time on this map is to be careful not to lose troops in the early game. Do not fight unnecessary battles, and try to protect your troops with an excess of summoning magic to make enemy charges turn back to kill summoned sprites, or enemy ranged attack retaliations strike summoned troops put in front of your own.
If you ever lose a significant portion of troops, you might be quite far behind the later enemy towns in troops.

If you can get the ability to cast a very strong and useful summon, like Summon Water Elementals, you can start the next map with your lone hero taking down most guard monsters with just that one spell cast once or twice.

It appears no one can build a Tavern, so I was pleasantly surprised to see one of the enemy heroes (Orange, I think) dead in the underground, apparently slain by a stack of neutral monks. Picked up a lot of nice artifacts, too!
Edited on Sat, Jun 23 2007, 21:05 by Grail Quest

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Elwin and Shaera → The Lovers

Postby gravyluvr » Mar 25 2008, 16:45

One thing that always gets me on this map is how to develop Elwin so that you can get the most out of the Expert Nature boon on map 2. Most of the time the combat skill is offered just north of the first orange town so I tend to go for summoning and fork the nature skill so that I just end up with advanced nature magic (so I can use quicksand and summon elf) and use the remainder for Combat skills. I try to get the free combat skill (2000gp actually) and wait to take the tome and hope for summoning. By level 15 you should be able to have GM Combat, Advanced Nature and then about 11 other level ups. I love to try to get the magic resist going but end up settling for melee and archery sometimes. Leaving the Nature Skill relatively low in the first map can make it slow going at the beginning but by the time you start on Map #2 you should have plenty of combat and you'll get expert nature (and associated powerups) as well as a few nature skills. I find it helpful to add some life and tactics to help the troups as well.
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Elwin and Shaera → The Lovers

Postby Wheeler Dealer » Dec 8 2009, 23:00

The wand of firebolt along with a stack of sprites and and the quicksand spell will take you a long way on this map. At first I had severe gold problems but about the time I took the thrid town, gold became a non issue. I thought I had screwed up big time when I first met blue. I had sacrificed my whole army to take the first neutral town and had only built back up to 6 griffins, 8 elves with a few wolves and sprites.

I was just west of the underground entrance when blue came out of the fog headed southwest toward my unguarded chaos town. I tried two or three times to attack him but it wasn't even close. Finally I was able to drop everything but my griffins and just barely reach the unguarded blue might town. Lucky for me it had a castle. I laid down quicksand in front of the gate and then summoned elves every turn. The griffins (from inside) took on any army attempting to break down the gate. I was able to stand blue off losing only two griffins.

By the time I reached the second chaos town I had a promising army but I couldn't take the town without taking huge losses. There were three stacks of shooters, orcs, medusas and evil eyes and they just chewed my army to pieces before I could take the town. I finally built a second army of all the might and chaos (except for medusas which I wanted in my main army) creatures I could buy. My plan was for Elwin to lead this army on a suicide mission, fleeing at the last moment to come back with my real army against a seriously weakened defensive garrison. It turned out that even though I lost all my troops Elwin was able to finish up with summoned creatures.

That was my last real challenge.

The reason to take the chaos towns is the den of thieves, the witch hall and the mana portal. The might towns are good for the stat improvements from the wrestling pits and arena of honor.

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Re: Elwin and Shaera → The Lovers

Postby Wheeler Dealer » Dec 18 2020, 19:43

This my third or fourth time through these campaigns. I played this time on expert on this campaign, I think I can win on Champion but there are so many reloads required that it just isn't fun.

One tactic I don't remember using before was very helpful. If there was only one type neutral monster I would go in with Elwin alone. If you have only one stack the neutrals will all be in one stack. I would used summoned sprites to distract the hostile stack and the Wand of Fire Bolt to whittle down the enemy. If I ran out of mana I could retreat and come back to finish, though I only had to do this once. When I learned quicksand this got even easier.

In the past I always took the nearby orange town before the blue town. This invariably resulted in blue attacking before I was ready. This time I took the blue town before the orange and orange play gave me as long as I needed to prepare for the battle for the orange town.

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Re: Elwin and Shaera → The Lovers

Postby cjleeagain » Dec 26 2020, 18:45

Wheeler Dealer

I played this when I was younger, and finished on Champion. Now that I am older and have less time, I can't do that anymore.

But based on my memories, I'm pretty sure you can do it on Champion if you want. For most campaigns including H4 vanilla campaigns, playing on Champion is truly torturous on the first map. You literally reload every single battle at least 3 times. Sometimes you play a battle 10-15 times before everything turns out right.

Elwin's campaign is so horrible on Map 1 because you depend on summoned creatures. One extra turn is very important because it allows you to get just that many more sprites.

While we all like to think of playing on Champion as a show of creative tactics and daring, actually it is more of an accountant/ auditor's proofreading grind.

What I mean is, you have to count every single HP, you have to tally up every single creature's actions, you have to be absolutely anal and can't make a mistake, you have to visit every single stat location and learn every single possible spell.

But after the first map, the rest of the campaign is normally no different from playing on Expert or Hard. In fact, the rest of the campaign is often easier. Since the huge stacks of neutrals discourage or prevent your enemies from expanding.

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Re: Elwin and Shaera → The Lovers

Postby Wheeler Dealer » Dec 28 2020, 21:33

Back again. This campaign was ridiculously easy at expert so I decided to try again on Champion. It is extremely hard to get the first town, still difficult to win the next two, but after that it was easier. Apparently the biggest difference between Expert and Champion is the difference in the size of the neutral stacks. That proved to be more a problem for the computer players than for me.

Here's a tactic I haven't used before: After laying down a lot of quicksand while firing off you're wand when you get a chance, bless Elwin with Terrain Walk and cross back and forth over it while pausing to fire you're wand when you can.

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Re: Elwin and Shaera → The Lovers

Postby cjleeagain » Dec 31 2020, 17:34

Incredible, my friend.

This game is nearly 20 years old. But 3DO did such a great job that I am still learning something new everytime.

Never thought Terrain Walk could be used on the battlefield.

But your tactic is awesome. So that's how to use that wand of fire in map 1 to beat even the hardest walking neutrals!


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