The End of Deconstruction

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winterfate
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Postby winterfate » Jun 4 2007, 2:37

So how will the debate work?

Is there a set time frame I have to be logged in?

More importantly...are there still spaces open for the debate...I must defend the honor of the Sylvan faction! :D

(Bet'cha guys didn't see that coming...:up: ;))
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Re: Heroes V, Deconstructed (4)

Postby Omega_Destroyer » Jun 4 2007, 2:42

stefan.urlus wrote:you only just noticed that?


Yeah. Never seemed to be a problem before I started playing Battle for Andora. Seems like the AI on that map is really unmotivated.

And what are you looking for specifically in the debate Corribus?
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Postby asandir » Jun 4 2007, 5:28

wow .... I always would see things that the AI had left behind, easy things, chests, resources, mines etc ....

so who's batting for the inferno? :)
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Heroes V, Deconstructed (4)

Postby Thelonious » Jun 4 2007, 13:02

The heroes off the battle field brings us back to the HoMM III way which makes magic heroes better that might heroes, because of their magic skills.

I'd like to see a better solution to this; perhaps not the HoMM IV solution, as uber-heroes aren't what we want either. I'd like to see a hero that can be on or outside the battlefield, granting him more supporting skills of the battlefield; less effective active skills (spellcasting etc.) and immunity, yet on the battlefield the supporting skills are less effective and the active skills are effective a 100%. A hero could choose to enter or exit the battlefield during battle and would have a maximum number of turns on and off the battlefield.
Ofcourse the hero has to be seen as a unit this way (more so like HoMM IV) and would have to enter if all units are defeated
Edited on Mon, Jun 04 2007, 09:03 by Thelonious
Grah!

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Corribus
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Postby Corribus » Jun 4 2007, 16:05

As I've mentioned in passing, there are no set "rules" yet. The format is very open at this point. Once I get the requisite number of volunteers (I'm about 2 or so shy of having ideally enough to make this feasible), my thought was to brainstorm among the participants (over email) for a set of rules. Right now I have four definite volunteers, and another who has expressed interest but won't be able to participate immediately because he is out of town. That's a total of 5 for 7 available factions. A few factions have been claimed already. If necessary, I will take a faction myself, but as the coordinator, I'd prefer to stay neutral.

The ultimate goal is to create a dialogue between experienced and enthusiastic H5 players about the best strategies for each faction, particularly to use against other specific factions. I think it will be a nice resource for the community if it all comes together. It should also get some discussion going among non-participants about the pros and cons of each factions. I don't envision it really taking that much time beyond thinking about the strategies you would use, and then putting them in a few paragraph's worth of writing.
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Postby Omega_Destroyer » Jun 4 2007, 16:13

I'll give it a shot. Just give me some random faction and I'll see what I can do for it.
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Corribus
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Postby Corribus » Jun 4 2007, 16:28

@O_D

Sweet. Please send me a pm with your email address, as it will be easier to do this via group email.
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Postby Omega_Destroyer » Jun 4 2007, 16:30

Just did.
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Corribus
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Postby Corribus » Jun 5 2007, 2:16

@Thelonious

H5 has reduced the power of magic heroes (vis a vis those in H3) a little bit by limiting the power of "mass" spells. A number of them only affect all the creatues within a given area, instead of all the creatures total. That's a step in the right direction.
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Heroes V, Deconstructed (4)

Postby TxTBoy » Jun 5 2007, 3:58

@Thelonious"have to enter if all units are defeated"
I really like it, as H4 way, the hero (leaves his horse) enters the battlefield, then show his might.

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Heroes V, Deconstructed (4)

Postby hein321 » Jun 5 2007, 9:17

heroes of might and magic 4 deserves a second look.
Corribus why is that a step in the right direction weakening magic heroes will only make them suck more and even less people will want to play with them
Edited on Tue, Jun 05 2007, 05:43 by hein321

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Postby Corribus » Jun 5 2007, 15:47

Magic heroes are overpowered in H3 wrt might heroes. Spells are just too powerful and allow the player to completely manipulate the course of a battle. Might heroes don't have that option. Thus, by limiting the power of "mass" spells in H5, the power of magic Heroes is attenuated to some degree, which is a step towards balance between might and magic.
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Postby ThunderTitan » Jun 5 2007, 17:21

I think C is referring to magic skills and the spells being too powerful in a battle, not the so called might heroes being weaker then their magic counterparts in the faction (the different stat progression not being very unbalanced).
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Re: Heroes V, Deconstructed (4)

Postby Bandobras Took » Jun 5 2007, 18:13

hein321 wrote:heroes of might and magic 4 deserves a second look.

Corribus why is that a step in the right direction weakening magic heroes will only make them suck more and even less people will want to play with them

Edited on Tue, Jun 05 2007, 05:43 by hein321


Thelonious wrote:The heroes off the battle field brings us back to the HoMM III way which makes magic heroes better than might heroes, because of their magic skills.


It would seem that Might and Magic are fairly balanced in Heroes 5 if magic heroes both suck and are overpowered.

Further food for thought: in Heroes 2 the most recommended course for Sorceress/Warlock towns was to get a Barbarian ASAP and make them your main hero.

In all Heroes 5 has done an excellent job of making sure that a faction functions best when led by a hero of the same alignment, whether they be might or magic.
Far too many people speak their minds without first verifying the quality of their source material.

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Postby ThunderTitan » Jun 5 2007, 18:20

Magic skills and high Atk/Def stats made heroes overpowered. And they made sure you use the hero of the same alignment with the special town dependent skills, not by any balancing, which is annoying coz it limits your choices.
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Postby Corribus » Jun 5 2007, 18:22

@B. Took

That's true, with hero alignment affecting troop moral, it is almost imperative to select heroes of your town alignment when hiring them. Unfortunately, sometimes they aren't available for some reason!!
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Postby Bandobras Took » Jun 5 2007, 20:25

ThunderTitan wrote:And they made sure you use the hero of the same alignment with the special town dependent skills, not by any balancing, which is annoying coz it limits your choices.


I was referring to that, yes, but also to the morale hit. I don't find it too annoying because with the reintroduction of Hero specialties, you can have some variety even within the same faction. Jezebeth's game doesn't play remotely the same way as Grok's.

ThunderTitan wrote:Magic skills and high Atk/Def stats made heroes overpowered.


You seem to be saying that all heroes are overpowered -- should we remove them from the game entirely? :)
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Postby HodgePodge » Jun 5 2007, 20:46

Bandobras Took wrote:You seem to be saying that all heroes are overpowered -- should we remove them from the game entirely? :)

Oooh, there's a good idea … if fact, let's remove the whole GAME (H5) entirely and start over. :-D
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Postby ThunderTitan » Jun 5 2007, 21:53

Bandobras Took wrote:You seem to be saying that all heroes are overpowered -- should we remove them from the game entirely? :)


Not all heroes had high Atk/Def stats.
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Postby winterfate » Jun 6 2007, 0:19

HodgePodge wrote:Oooh, there's a good idea … if fact, let's remove the whole GAME (H5) entirely and start over.


A brilliant idea! :devious:

I hope TotE addresses some of these balance issues...but that's a blind and hopeless hope... seeing how badly unbalanced certain parts of the game are. :sad:
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