CH Heroes VI Review

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hellegennes
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CH Heroes VI Review

Postby hellegennes » Sep 4 2012, 13:05

The hallmark of Heroes is neither dragons nor titans nor any other unit; it's heroes themselves. As long as there heroes in Heroes, it's a Heroes game! Granted that heroes add strategic depth to the game, it should be worthy of retaining the name.

And people should come to realise that not all parts of a series could ever be hits. There's no law for that. You could consider H6 as a miss if you don't like it that much, but please stop talking about downfalls and all that. Part of the reason you don't find it so attractive is because you are growing up. The first MM game I played was MM6 and I only discovered its existence through the little ad H2 had in its main menu (if anyone remembers that). After playing MM6, I played all the previous titles in the series but I found that they pale in comparison to MM6. Now, if you ask someone who has played the games in order, he would tell you otherwise. Why? Because he played those games at an earlier age, not because they are fundamentally better in any way. It's the "feeling".

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CH Heroes VI Review

Postby Loco Blutaxt » Sep 4 2012, 15:21

So let us old people talk about the weather?
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hellegennes
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CH Heroes VI Review

Postby hellegennes » Sep 4 2012, 17:01

@Loco Blutaxt:

No. Just because I cried "stop *****ing" it doesn't mean that you should, if you don't want to. All I'm saying is that your arguments are rusty and you are just complaining more because you are getting old and less to the point. I am trying to make you realise that it's not just the game's fault that you can't enjoy it.

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CH Heroes VI Review

Postby Mozared » Sep 5 2012, 19:49

Not sure if this has been said yet, but your argument regarding not playing the campaign is flawed. It's entirely possible and even quite realistic that you didn't play through the rest of the campaigns because the GAME wasn't as enticing. You may have loved the story but disliked the gameplay completely, which makes it unfair to pop up the argument 'if it were better I would've kept playing'.

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CH Heroes VI Review

Postby Kalah » Sep 5 2012, 20:48

Not really. I see your point, though. But I did play through most of them, it's just that neither the story nor the gameplay impressed me much ... and if a game is not good enought in either of these respects to encourage me to keep going, it can easily be claimed that it is not necessary to go on. The grade is not very likely to change much.
Also remember that most reviewers do indeed play a portion of the game only.
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CH Heroes VI Review

Postby cjlee » Sep 6 2012, 7:48

Kalah, you aren't just a standard reviewer who has to follow 100 games and write articles on them all in the course of a standard workyear.

You are a forum moderator and an administrator (and whatever other titles and responsibilities you have) of a site nearly entirely devoted to HOMM alone.

Unless you are a paid grunt (I doubt it), it is normally assumed that you are also a HOMM enthusiast, and that you actually play the game. If you didn't like a campaign enough to finish it, it is very, very telling. That action (or lack of action) speaks volumes about how much you actually like HOMM 6.

I believe you overrated the campaigns at 4/6 and your actions show it. If you cannot find the time to play H6, one year after the release, it's obvious you actually think the campaigns are 2/6 but feel obliged to put a positive spin in order to maintain a cordial relationship with ubisoft. No blame here - I know you moderators/ administrators have to sound positive and constructive no matter how annoyed you may be with Ubisoft.

Edited on Thu, Sep 06 2012, 03:51 by cjlee

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CH Heroes VI Review

Postby Kalah » Sep 6 2012, 8:26

I don't deny that there may be flaws in my review, but accusing me of being a pawn of Ubisoft is just ridiculous. Browsing through some of my criticism over the last two years should be enough to prove the contrary.
To answer your question (if that's what it is), the main reason for my not returning to play the game was not that the campaigns in themselves were bad - it was that the game's other features were either poor or unaccessible to me (since I didn't have Internet on my gaming PC).
In War: Resolution, In Defeat: Defiance, In Victory: Magnanimity, In Peace: Goodwill.

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CH Heroes VI Review

Postby hellegennes » Sep 6 2012, 9:58

@cjlee:

Okay, so what you're actually saying is that he should have marked the game even lower? Otherwise he is "working" for Ubisoft? Have we all gone mad? If the game is so rubbish that you all lost interest completely, what in the name are you still doing in here?

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CH Heroes VI Review

Postby CloudRiderX » Sep 10 2012, 21:57

H5 comes out -> "TOO MANY DRAGONS WORST GAME EVER"

H6 comes out -> "NO DRAGONS OR TITANS WORST GAME EVER"
"A Guardian is always prepared." - Galio, the Sentinel's Sorrow

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Re: CH Heroes VI Review

Postby jeff » Sep 10 2012, 23:53

hellegennes wrote:@cjlee:
Okay, so what you're actually saying is that he should have marked the game even lower? Otherwise he is "working" for Ubisoft? Have we all gone mad? If the game is so rubbish that you all lost interest completely, what in the name are you still doing in here?


Let's be careful and not be so judgmental. Kalah does not pull punches toward UBI; this is not a company site. The reasons that those of us who think H-6 is rubbish still come here; is unlike many we still love Heroes the franchise and have given UBI two tries to continue the series and they have managed to mess it up royally. I will still come to this site primarily to frequent the MM, Hero I-IV, Equilibrius and Mapmaking guild forums, of yeah Campfire and News as well. I have not been on the H-5 forum in over a year :proud: , and mainly check the H-6 forum for news on the editor, and will stop once it is apparent nothing good is going to happen in that regard. The only thing ridiculous is the implication that we must at least tolerate H-6 to love Heroes and enjoy its community.
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CH Heroes VI Review

Postby CloudRiderX » Sep 11 2012, 4:03

"The reasons that those of us who think H-6 is rubbish still come here; is unlike many we still love Heroes the franchise..."

The only thing this community 'loves' is complaining.

First it was "Heroes 5 is great" and now its "Heroes 6 sucks."

This "community" (of people who all have completely different opinions on what makes a 'good' Heroes game and most of which I have witnessed provide no substantial reasoning for said opinions and merely condemn the game for its lack of [insert petty missing feature here]) has become a joke.
"A Guardian is always prepared." - Galio, the Sentinel's Sorrow

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CH Heroes VI Review

Postby hellegennes » Sep 11 2012, 13:59

First of all, I am not bashing out on Kalah, whose opinion I respect. But honestly, Jeff, many of you act like you own the series. Really? You have given Ubisoft the chance to prove their worthiness to you? Is the franchise yours? Was it ever? I understand what the term "fan" means and how much would you like the copyright owner to give you something you will love again, but they don't owe you that. And they're not scums if they don't. They're not even the ones who are at fault for NWC's demise, so you can blame them for destroying the series. If anything, they have tried to revive it and it could very well be in the trash if they didn't buy the rights back when 3DO went bankrupt.

Also, do not pretend that NWC wasn't at fault because it was 3DO that went bankrupt. If JVC hadn't sold his company, it would not suffer that fate. Surely, he couldn't have foreseen it, but that doesn't take away his accountability. People make mistakes.

Of course Ubisoft didn't try and revive the series because of their kind heart. But they are a company, mind you, just like any other. They care to make a good product because this will bring them money. Thus, anyone complaining about intentions and how much the company cares about the series, is really complaining about something that doesn't exist.

And Jeff, even though you've made some wonderful maps, this doesn't change the fact that no game can be geared towards you, because you are a very specific customer who mostly cares about making maps, not playing the actual game. Hence, you are not inside the target audience and the company would be ill-advised to develop a game with you in mind. Surely, everyone wants a good editor, but I myself am satisfied also if the company provides me with their own maps at regular intervals. You must understand that these game editors have become too complex mainly because of 3D. For the company to spend time creating a more user friendly editor means spending money which is debatable if its going to count towards their revenue from the game's sales.
Edited on Tue, Sep 11 2012, 10:00 by hellegennes

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CH Heroes VI Review

Postby CloudRiderX » Sep 11 2012, 15:37

I absolutely agree with hellegennes.

All I've seen on this site since H6's release is a crusade. It's a crusade against Ubi, Black Hole, or anyone else that doesn't fulfill expectations (which are most often unreasonable and poorly justified) 100% of the time.

This community is wallowing in its own self-righteous despair. Nobody here wansts Ubi to make a good HoMM game, because that would actually make them happy.
"A Guardian is always prepared." - Galio, the Sentinel's Sorrow

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Re: CH Heroes VI Review

Postby jeff » Sep 11 2012, 20:56

hellegennes wrote:First of all, I am not bashing out on Kalah, whose opinion I respect. But honestly, Jeff, many of you act like you own the series. Really? You have given Ubisoft the chance to prove their worthiness to you? Is the franchise yours? Was it ever? I understand what the term "fan" means and how much would you like the copyright owner to give you something you will love again, but they don't owe you that. And they're not scums if they don't. They're not even the ones who are at fault for NWC's demise, so you can blame them for destroying the series. If anything, they have tried to revive it and it could very well be in the trash if they didn't buy the rights back when 3DO went bankrupt.


First my comments of Kalah were referring back to cjlee sorry that was not clear. The rest, I find personally offensive as I have never pretended anything that you claimed there. As a paying customer I expect them to deliver what I will enjoy otherwise expect harsh criticism. Unlike several here I have paid for every game I play and do not download anything pirated. No one said they were at fault for NWC’s demise so I guess you just decided to throw that in, whatever!

hellegennes wrote:Of course Ubisoft didn't try and revive the series because of their kind heart. But they are a company, mind you, just like any other. They care to make a good product because this will bring them money. Thus, anyone complaining about intentions and how much the company cares about the series, is really complaining about something that doesn't exist.


I do not remember making any suggestions about UBI’s intention other than to make money; if I did please reference it so I can correct that.

hellegennes wrote:This doesn't change the fact that no game can be geared towards you, because you are a very specific customer who mostly cares about making maps, not playing the actual game. Hence, you are not inside the target audience and the company would be ill-advised to develop a game with you in mind.


I have never claimed otherwise and if you research my posts I have said pretty much the same thing. I am a small market and really do not expect UBI to try and satisfy my desire, but that does not mean I can’t comment on that desire.

hellegennes wrote:Surely, everyone wants a good editor, but I myself am satisfied also if the company provides me with their own maps at regular intervals. You must understand that these game editors have become too complex mainly because of 3D. For the company to spend time creating a more user friendly editor means spending money which is debatable if its going to count towards their revenue from the game's sales.


First I doubt many really care about the editor, but it does pay if they have a user friendly editor look at the number of maps still being made for H-III and IV and compare it the H-5/6. People still buy (at a reduced price) H-III and IV it will be interesting to see how many are still buying 5 and 6 eight to ten years from now.


CloudRiderX wrote: This community is wallowing in its own self-righteous despair. Nobody here wansts Ubi to make a good HoMM game, because that would actually make them happy.


I don’t’ believe that, though there are some that want UBI to fail and I can’t speak for everyone, but I for one (and believe most others) want them to make a great Heroes game. They are the owners and if they don’t it dies. I think most of the despair is caused by the concern another failure may spell the end. UBI itself stated they were not happy with the state of H-6, and few games recover after a bad launch H-6 may end up being an exception.
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CH Heroes VI Review

Postby hellegennes » Sep 11 2012, 21:35

I have no intent to offend you and some of my remarks are more general and not specific to you (you can see which is which). But you're not a paying customer Jeff, you just WERE. It's your right not to buy any game, surely. However, your criticism of games you have not bought cannot be reliable.

You are basing your argument on the fact that I think there's arrogance in the statement "have given UBI two tries to continue the series" because it implies that Ubisoft is liable to work for you. These are your words, in quotes, not mine.

And although you know you are a no-market audience, you still base all your criticism on how Ubisoft neglects you as target audience. There are mutually exclusive.

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Re: CH Heroes VI Review

Postby jeff » Sep 11 2012, 22:04

hellegennes wrote:I have no intent to offend you and some of my remarks are more general and not specific to you (you can see which is which). But you're not a paying customer Jeff, you just WERE. It's your right not to buy any game, surely. However, your criticism of games you have not bought cannot be reliable.


I am sorry I can on occasion be thin skinned something I criticize others for so I need to watch that. However I will concede with regards to H-6 I am not a paying customer or owner for that part, but I do still buy games; so I am still a paying customer who chose as yet not to buy their product. If I go into a grocery store and decide the bananas look pretty bad and don't buy them but still purchase other items I am a paying customer. I did buy UBI's H-III/H-IV complete, since I bought H-5; so I am still buying.

hellegennes wrote:You are basing your argument on the fact that I think there's arrogance in the statement "have given UBI two tries to continue the series" because it implies that Ubisoft is liable to work for you. These are your words, in quotes, not mine.


You are absolutely right I did say that, but my comments on their arrogance was based on the fact that Fabrice after Tribes was released was shocked people did not like the H-5 editor, and my interpretation of Erwan Le Breton comments about a silent majority and thereby the fan sites noise can be considered accordingly. I consider those signs of arrogance; could be wrong but I'm just saying..... By the way, if I buy their product; sorry they become liable to me for the quality of their work.

hellegennes wrote:And although you know you are a no-market audience, you still base all your criticism on how Ubisoft neglects you as target audience. There are mutually exclusive.


Not sure what your point is here, no one wants to be ignored, but I don’t think I ever said I was their or a target audience, if so I know that’s not true. At best I am a small dying part of the market, but I will be a noisy one. I am passionate about what I like and I feel a good editor would only help their cause, but this passion does not imply ownership on my part in any sense, nor do I overestimate my importance, but as long as I care for the franchise I will voice my disappointment.
Mala Ipsa Nova :bugsquash:

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CH Heroes VI Review

Postby hellegennes » Sep 12 2012, 1:34

Okay, fair arguments. I don't see arrogance in Ubisoft though, I just see close-mindedness. These are different things.

For future reference, note that I agree on many things with you and your current views on Heroes and its future. Hence I have no intention of offending you. I like your maps too, some of which I consider to be awesome. I would have liked for mapmakers to have a practical editor and have also commented several times on the fact that the game is in dire need of more maps, but that's a different issue and does not have anything to do with the quality of the game itself and how much fun it is.

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Re: CH Heroes VI Review

Postby jeff » Sep 12 2012, 21:11

hellegennes wrote:Okay, fair arguments. I don't see arrogance in Ubisoft though, I just see close-mindedness. These are different things.


I can understand that view, and I agree with much of what you said. I need to avoid posting right after work as I can be a bit testy. :D
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CH Heroes VI Review

Postby camelotcrusade » Sep 18 2012, 5:31

Bravo to those standing up to the community vitriol. I like this site because it's a good source of news but I will add +1 to the ranks of people tired of the old, bitter and unforgiving "community."

The editors on this site aren't immune to it, either, sometimes you guys indulge in some real puppy-kicking.

What I'd really like to see is a "What I love about HoMM VI" article as contrast to all the moaning. And if you can't do that then how can you call yourselves a "fan" site??!

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Re: CH Heroes VI Review

Postby jeff » Sep 18 2012, 20:14

camelotcrusade wrote:What I'd really like to see is a "What I love about HoMM VI" article as contrast to all the moaning. And if you can't do that then how can you call yourselves a "fan" site??!


I can understand if you like the game you can become tired of all the criticism. However whether the staff here shows love for H-6 or not does not change the fact this is a "fan" site. There are staff members who have given at least tepid approval of H-6. The site is dedicated to the entire MM universe not just H-6. You imply perhaps unintentionally that everything UBI and 3DO/NWC has published in the MM universe has to be at least acknowledged as being somewhat good. It really doesn't work that way, and never did.
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