Worlds of M&M 2

[hellegennes]

If you would like to take a look at the original page visit this link:
https://www.celestialheavens.com/780

[hellegennes]

Marzhin's English are surprisingly exquisite in writing. Better than the English of many English speakers, for that matter.



I noticed only one dissonant word and this is "ephemeral". The word is not used in this context. It literally means "lasting one day" and its metaphorical meaning is that of a trend. OED agrees with this definition. There's ephemeral power, music, language, lifestyle, fashion.



Other than that minute detail, the chronicles are very well written; really interesting read.

[Corlagon]

You can blame me for that one I've always used ephemeral as a synonym for "fleeting" or "short-lived", and it seems most of the Internet does too, but perhaps the original definition is more stringent.

[XEL II]

Great article! But there are also few minor mistakes:

It is unknown on what continent HoMM IV vanilla is set. It could be Lodwar, but nothing in the game itself suggests this. The article uses Axeoth's geography from LotA, but still, LotA is non-canon.

Lord Kilburn was actually killed by the Kreegan near Blackshire, as stated in the quest (his shield was presented as a proof that he was slain by devils, and Kilburn was investigating the devils before he died). Werewolves were actually a result of more recent (to MM6) curse caused by thw Wolf Altar, which had something to do with the Cult of Baa.

Castle Kriegspire hasn't been Agar's laboratory since the mintaurs he created there rebelled during the Succession Wars. Agar and other Warlocks fled to his other lab in Frozen Highlands, where Agar created beholders in hopes to regain the Memory Crystal from Kriegspire and later conquer Enroth.

While Sandro was indeed the instigator of the alliance between Deyja, Eeofol and Nighon, the war was also caused with the help of Kreegans and Baa (who were already allied with Nighon by the time), whose goal was to lead Catherine away from Enroth to weaken the crown against Baa machinations.

Aside from that, interesting read, very well written. I especially liked the time travel idea.

[Avonu]

It is unknown on what continent HoMM IV vanilla is set. It could be Lodwar, but nothing in the game itself suggests this. The article uses Axeoth's geography from LotA, but still, LotA is non-canon.

It is no wonder, then, that one of the difficulties valiants face when exploring Axeoth is the lack of proper maps detailing its landmasses. The one we bought from some red-haired wizard-turned-pirate seems approximate at best, as several continents are missing altogether. Surely, in the great academy of Farndale, master cartographers would suffer a stroke if faced with this travesty of an atlas, but hopefully it will be accurate enough to convince a captain from the great city of Uludin to navigate our way to the far-away lands of Aalondor.

Suffer a stroke XEL II.

Lord Kilburn was actually killed by the Kreegan near Blackshire, as stated in the quest (his shield was presented as a proof that he was slain by devils, and Kilburn was investigating the devils before he died). Werewolves were actually a result of more recent (to MM6) curse caused by thw Wolf Altar, which had something to do with the Cult of Baa.

He was killed at Blackshire while he investigated devils rumors IIRC. The Kreegan never crossed Sentinel Mountains - they were stopped by Roland.

Castle Kriegspire hasn't been Agar's laboratory since the mintaurs he created there rebelled during the Succession Wars. Agar and other Warlocks fled to his other lab in Frozen Highlands, where Agar created beholders in hopes to regain the Memory Crystal from Kriegspire and later conquer Enroth.

But it was Agar's and warlock's castle... before they escaped. Roland hold this castle for any futher lord who could he nominate.

While Sandro was indeed the instigator of the alliance between Deyja, Eeofol and Nighon, the war was also caused with the help of Kreegans and Baa (who were already allied with Nighon by the time), whose goal was to lead Catherine away from Enroth to weaken the crown against Baa machinations.

Church of Baa was nothing on Antagarich, they were mainly refugee from Enroth after their defeated.

[Corlagon]

I got approval from Tim Lang to call the H4 continent Lodwar back in late 2010 based on the context of its use as a term in The Gathering Storm: "Merlion lies on the southern shores of Lodwar", etc (I would have preferred to ask Jennifer Bullard if it had a different name among the H4 team, but we couldn't contact her).

Was it conclusive that Kilburn was really slain by the devils? I thought the Kreegans didn't manage to get that far, that the Werewolves were part of the twist of the quest, since Humphrey and Roland both initially assume the Kreegans did it so you would spend time looking for them in Blackshire when there weren't any - and that the Kreegans had simply taken advantage of the disappearance to mount a thinly-veiled trap. The shield is in the possession of Werewolves with no Kreegans in sight, and Humphrey only blames the death on "foul monsters" when you give it back to him.

[XEL II]

Suffer a stroke XEL II.

Church of Baa was nothing on Antagarich, they were mainly refugee from Enroth after their defeated.[/quote]
Indeed But the article holds this map as the correct one, mentioning that Great Arcan is in Lodwar.

He was killed at Blackshire while he investigated devils rumors IIRC. The Kreegan never crossed Sentinel Mountains - they were stopped by Roland.

Roland didn't stop Kreegans from crossing the mountains, he fought them near Edenbrook (the city on the southern edge of Paradise Valley), and then pursued the survivors to the north, until he was forced to retreat to Castle Kriegspire. Kreegans have crossed the mountains and set up an outpost near Kriegspire after Roland's defeat. Quest with the shield in MM6 states that Kilburn was actually slain by devils (the shield being the proof), and all sources link his death with investigation on the devils. A Kreegan spy also tried to fool Roland by giving him map with the location of Kilburn's death on it. Besides, Blackshire's population didn't turn into werewolves at night when, when Roland's army was staying there.

But it was Agar's and warlock's castle... before they escaped. Roland hold this castle for any futher lord who could he nominate.

The article visits the Castle with Agar in there after the Succession Wars.

Church of Baa was nothing on Antagarich, they were mainly refugee from Enroth after their defeated.

There was actually a temple in AvLee, but the High Priest apparently fled there after the Churches was disbanded in Enroth. Church of Baa and Kreegans did have a hand in Restoration Wars, which they used as a gambe against Catherine to force her to leave Enroth. This is mentioned in Zenofex's letters to Suleman and Baa priests.

[XEL II]

I got approval from Tim Lang to call the H4 continent Lodwar back in late 2010 based on the context of its use as a term in The Gathering Storm: "Merlion lies on the southern shores of Lodwar", etc (I would have preferred to ask Jennifer Bullard if it had a different name among the H4 team, but we couldn't contact her).

Lang didn't have any involvement in HoMM IV development, his words wouldn't have weight in this regard. It would have been better to ask Jennifer or Terray.

Was it conclusive that Kilburn was really slain by the devils? I thought the Kreegans didn't manage to get that far, that the Werewolves were part of the twist of the quest, since Humphrey and Roland both initially assume the Kreegans did it so you would spend time looking for them in Blackshire when there weren't any - and that the Kreegans had simply taken advantage of the disappearance to mount a thinly-veiled trap. The shield is in the possession of Werewolves with no Kreegans in sight, and Humphrey only blames the death on "foul monsters" when you give it back to him.

Humphrey says (not exact quotes) "if Lord Kilburn was indeed slain by devils, you should find his shield", and when you complete the quest "so it is true that Kilburn was slain by he foul monsters". So, that would be Kreegan. It's not like werewolves couldn't infest the place later, and Kreegans don't have to remain where they have slain Kilburn until MM6. The werewolf curse wasn't yet placed upon Blackshire when Roland visited it, which was after Kilburn's death.

[Corlagon]

It would have been better to ask Jennifer or Terray

Sounds great, do that and let us know what you find out.

[XEL II]

It would have been better to ask Jennifer or Terray

Sounds great, do that and let us know what you find out.

Sound like an order lol. It is you who is/were interested in finding out about that. If you ask me, the vanilla continent doesn't seem to be Lodwar at all, no connections between it and Lodwar whatsoever were made in the plot of vanilla or TGS.

[Corlagon]

It's easier said than done to find former NWC employees willing to have a chat about minute details from the Might and Magic plot written ten years ago, though, you can surely appreciate. Having bothered to find some, I'll say that between Tim Lang's opinion and nothing, I'm quite satisfied indeed to go with the former.

But glad you liked the article in any case, and thanks for the feedback.

[GreatEmerald]

Also, Tarnum wasn't exactly mad. Well, unless he was mad at the wizards of Bracaduun He kind of had a reason for his reign - attempting to save the culture of his people. And while he was sort of an extreme ruler, I wouldn't call him a tyrant. Then again, I guess the mudlanders would disagree...

Anyway, nice article, as usual.

[XEL II]

He got tyrannical when he overthrew the Bracaduun and founded his empire. He reigned for several years, until Gryphonheart killed him.

[Evernight]

Dang, I miss Antagarich.

[Avonu]

Also, Tarnum wasn't exactly mad. Well, unless he was mad at the wizards of Bracaduun He kind of had a reason for his reign - attempting to save the culture of his people. And while he was sort of an extreme ruler, I wouldn't call him a tyrant. Then again, I guess the mudlanders would disagree...

He was becoming mad while he strugged against Bracaduun. When he lost his troops in ambush he slayed all who didn't want to join his army against wizard-kings. Not to mention about his advisors and mudlanders fate.


@XEL II
From what I remember from one of interviews, HIV continent (including TGS and WoW lands) is on the other side of planet ("severeal thousands miles away") then Rysh. Maybe Lodwar isn't the same continent as Devonhire but it should be close enough.
And read second latter of Roland - this messanger who wore hat concealed inhuman ears and barely fit in his outfit, was something else then devil or Baa follower.
Kilburn death had nothing to do with devils but rather with strange incidents in Blackshire.

[XEL II]

There was no werewolf curse (which IIRC had something to do with Baa) on Blackshire at the time of Roland's crusade. And the messenger's description sound like that of a disguised Kreegan (especially the large ears part), not to mention that it would just be redundant to factor another force (which would also be not mentioned again) into this.

Being several thousand miles away doesn't necessarily make it located on the other side of the planet, although I do remember some mention of Rysh being on the opposite side in that statement. WoW continent is Axeoth's northern continent, which is not Lodwar or vanilla continent. Lodwar is more than likely not vanilla continent, although there is room for that for fanfiction.

[Corlagon]

You can say it more than likely is or isn't, but that's just bias as there isn't a single clue at all to suggest likeliness aside from the presence of Dogwoggle in both stories and the possible connection between The Wheel and Aldamar. There's no more likely or less likely.

[GreatEmerald]

He was becoming mad while he strugged against Bracaduun. When he lost his troops in ambush he slayed all who didn't want to join his army against wizard-kings. Not to mention about his advisors and mudlanders fate.

Yes, but I still wouldn't call that 'mad'. Extreme, brutal - yes. But there still was reason to do so.

[Avonu]

Depends of point of view... or point of Tarnum's axe/sword.
He was mad, not insane but still mad and cruel.

[hellegennes]

Although it's rather unclear how Kilburn died, it's obvious that the werewolf curse happened long after the events described in Roland's letters. For one, the townsfolk would have told Roland about it. But even more evident is the fact that the curse is recent, because that's what the townsfolk say when you ask them about it! And it has been a few years since Roland's abduction because it's stated in the intro that the game begins 3 years after the night of shooting stars (which wouldn't be more than a year before Roland's expedition)*.



Could it be just one random werewolf? Doubtful; Lord Kilburn wasn't alone.



About the messenger, I think it's quite clear that he is a Kreegan and not a werewolf. He acted on a plan, whereas a werewolf would only had instincts. And it is also clear that he was trying to lead them to a Kreegan trap.



In all, there's no evidence whatsoever to support a definite answer for the death of Lord Kilburn and his men.



* Also, note that some dates are contradictory. The MM6 manual states the year to be 1152, several times, -through Roland's letters- but in-game we start in 1165 IIRC. I am guessing that the former was supposed to be 1162.