Like Tears in Rain

[Corlagon]

OK then, agree to disagree. I'm afraid I'll stick to what the sign said and not what it didn't say.
Back to the Forge Wars I suppose.

[XEL II]

An interesting point is that Corak was apparently travelling a lot using the time machine while trying to stop Sheltem destroying CRON. This provides a vast potential for different storylines and events.

[hellegennes]

No XELL, Kreegans in MM are nothing like the demonic race in Heroes. They certainly are the same race, but that is it. They look nothing alike. That you observe any kind of similarities is beyond me.



And NO, Morglin Ironfist is NOT from VARN. I have read the manual a billion times and I know the whole story by heart. There was no connection to the MM games until MM6. And I explained the reasons behind this decision. Of course, only JVC can say that, but to me it's fairly obvious that they went this way for the reasons expounded.



Neither is the Eye of Goros the same thing. And why does the word "ancients" have to mean The Ancients? It's not like it's a rare or special word. It's one of the most used words in heroic fantasy.

[XEL II]

What can I say, you can compare yourself. I was talking about the physical appearance of their bodies and complexion. They have the same type of legs, overall "demonic" appearance, glowing eyes, they burn after they die, have horns. They don't look exactly the same, that's for sure, but then again, nor do humans and pther races.

Morglin is actually from VARN, the manual mentions Varnal Hills and the Ironfists itself is one of five main noble dynasties of VARN 4. Eye of Goros is not the one from VARN, it's Enrothian one. And that Archipelago is not "Ancient Archipelago" or something like that, it's "Archipelago of the Ancients", which is clearly referencing the progenitor race of MM.

[Avonu]

And NO, Morglin Ironfist is NOT from VARN. I have read the manual a billion times and I know the whole story by heart. There was no connection to the MM games until MM6. And I explained the reasons behind this decision. Of course, only JVC can say that, but to me it's fairly obvious that they went this way for the reasons expounded.

He is.
His homeworld has red sun (diferrent from Enroth's sun) and also different gravity (no, he is NOT from Krypton ).
Also, Morglin Ironfist came to Enroth with his companion Lord Kilburn. In MM1 both these characters appears and Lord Kilburn is vassal of Lord Ironfist IIRC.
And one more thing - both Queen Lamanda and Lord Slayer also could be from another world, form CRON. Both of these characters appers there. Why and how they ended on Enroth, well there are many ways to explain that.

[GreatEmerald]

I, for one, am sure that, knowing NWC, they must have done the job well.

This. Look at the town screen, it's certainly beautiful. Magical, if you're feeling dramatic. And we never got to see finished units from what I know.

[GreatEmerald]

Not in term of shooting speed - that's why blasters are superior to artifacts/relics (unless your attack button will "jam" when you are shooting with bows ).

Have you tried using blasters in turn-based mode without Haste and pressing buttons without holding them? Well, that's basically how they were supposed to work.

Also, in MM1, Laser Blasters are essentially magic wands of Disintegrate. They have a few shots only, but have a pretty good chance of instakilling enemies, which is a lot closer to what we see in the cutscenes in MM7 and such.

[Avonu]

Yes, I tried. Blasters are still quicker then normal weapon and they can do more damage by this fact. Of course they can't deal 200+ damage to dragon in one hit like knight can do, but still they do large amount of damage in short time.
IIRC they shooting speed depends also of armsmater skill.

Ohh, and blasters are magic sticks or light swords which (lore wise) can shot down anything in one shot, even dragon. Not to mention Robert the Wise/Tolberti who knew how to use desintegration mode of their boomsticks.

I think blasters don't have "% eradicate hit" just for sake of game balance.

[GreatEmerald]

Of course, they are supposed to be powerful, they are still late game items and of Ancient origin

Well, they could have, like in MM1 - limit their ammo. But, of course, that way the Ancient Weapon skill would be useless and weapons themselves would be too rare to be used. Well, not to mention that there is no Disintegration spell for PCs to use anyway.

[XEL II]

In MM1 both these characters appears.

They are rather of same respective dynasties. Lord Ironfist in MM1 is most likely Ragnar.

[hellegennes]

@XELLII, Avonu:



This is trying to fit things to the lore. "Ironfist from MM1 is probably Ragnar" is such an assumption. There are no clues to say any of these.



If you read the manual, it's absolutely obvious that Ironfist and his generals have never seen any of the creatures that dwell Enroth, hence they come from a land much more mundane.

[Avonu]

Do you remember HOW goblins or gremlins look like in MMV? They were nothing like they little, green friends from Enroth.
MM1-5 creatures looked much more different then these from Enroth. Well, even creatures from Morglin Ironfist times looked different then 25 years later (troll, goblins, dragons, etc.).

[hatsforclowns]

[img]http://static2.ubi.com/uk/mm/history-of-the-orcs_v2.jpg[/img]

Except MM6 is really an ogre. Would be cool is someone made a comparison of all monsters in MM.

[Corlagon]

And NO, Morglin Ironfist is NOT from VARN. I have read the manual a billion times and I know the whole story by heart. There was no connection to the MM games until MM6

This is trying to fit things to the lore. "Ironfist from MM1 is probably Ragnar" is such an assumption. There are no clues to say any of these.

While it's quite true that it was never confirmed by NWC that Morglin Ironfist is from VARN (unless they did so on the 3DO discussion board or somewhere), it entered into general convention that he was long before XEL II came along, and I think it's folly to say the Varnal Hills, Lord Kilburn, Ironfists, the Eye of Goros and the red sun are anything but strong clues indeed. You can argue that there was another space-travelling Ironfist family somewhere out there in the universe, and you may be right, but then you'd the the one making assumptions.

[hellegennes]

Except, guys, Ironfist clearly states his amazement at the creatures from Enroth. It's not that they are just different, he has never seen anything like them. He doesn't know what they are. It's crystal clear if you read the letters in the manual.



Neither is Lord Kilburn with him, as one of you have said. Lord Kilburn of Enroth is a different person, otherwise in his expedition in MM6 he would be way beyond retirement (seeing as more than 40 years have passed between Morglin leaving his former land and MM6).



All other things are just references for fun. Unless we are to believe that the actual crew of Star Trek landed on Dragonsand, not to mention Trip Hawkins, JVC and tons of characters from The Chronicles of Amber.

[GreatEmerald]

Would be cool is someone made a comparison of all monsters in MM.

There are those already, called Creature Evolutions. All creatures from HoMMs are already done I believe, I did a few of the MM ones. The thing is that there is no good library of MM1 sprites, and I haven't found a way to extract them, either.

[Avonu]

The thing is that there is no good library of MM1 sprites, and I haven't found a way to extract them, either.

There is but not finished but there is a good chance it will be someday.

Except, guys, Ironfist clearly states his amazement at the creatures from Enroth. It's not that they are just different, he has never seen anything like them. He doesn't know what they are. It's crystal clear if you read the letters in the manual.

If you visit VARN, CRON, Terra and Xeen (and even Ardon) you would see creatures that don't look like on Enroth. You would be amazement by theier look.

Neither is Lord Kilburn with him, as one of you have said. Lord Kilburn of Enroth is a different person, otherwise in his expedition in MM6 he would be way beyond retirement (seeing as more than 40 years have passed between Morglin leaving his former land and MM6).

He is in H1 campaign, so lore wise he was present when Morglin Ironfist conquered Enroth.
And you forgot about Fountain of Younth on Dragonsand desert or Rejuvenation Potion. After all Gem or Luna had more then 80 years in HIV (as stated in one of bios).
BTW - between HoMM1 and MM6 passed less then 40 years (25 between HoMM1 and HoMM2 and 10 years between HoMM2 and MM6).

[hellegennes]

Plus 15 years from the start of Heroes 1 to its end. You can see it from the dates of the letters.



Lord Kilburn in Heroes 1 is probably a young knight from Enroth. Might and Magic wikia has a different opinion but I don't see where they get their sources. According to them, Kilburn was 160 years old when he died.



Oh, and the fountain of youth does not make you younger, it just removes magical ageing. That's different.

[Corlagon]

Plus 15 years from the start of Heroes 1 to its end. You can see it from the dates of the letters.

The calendar of VARN which Morglin was using for his journals likely isn't comparable to that of Enroth. If it's anywhere close to that of Xeen, the events of Heroes I translate into something more like four or five years time.

Lord Kilburn in Heroes 1 is probably a young knight from Enroth. Might and Magic wikia has a different opinion but I don't see where they get their sources.

It was written in Spinward Tales logic. Don't believe everything I write. But the source I'll likely be using for that in the future is the Worlds of Might and Magic article written by Marzhin, whether canon or not.

According to them, Kilburn was 160 years old when he died

Incorrect - "~ 1000s AS" is not the same as "~1000 AS". It indicates he was probably born in the last years of the ninth century.

As for the ageing, you are quick to claim that it can't be the same Lord Kilburn just because he's too old, but then consider Crag Hack of Enroth and the fact that he's probably entering well into his seventies or eighties by the time of Heroes IV.

[hellegennes]

Morglin is very precise about the timing. He states in his first letter "30 days since I crossed through", and the letter is marked 23rd of Raven. Then the next one is 4th of Dragongly and he states "more than a month since my last missive". Then he refers to years. Unless the duration of day in Enroth is different, these are the same earthly concepts.



As for Crag Hack, well... he is a barbarian. He would fight till his death. But it's very likely he was very young in Heroes 1, say 14. He is after all a barbarian, so this couldn't have been weird.