On Iron Lore and PC Gaming

[Moragauth]

I agree w/ Gryphon for the most part.

[AllanPoe]

jeff wrote:

"...Making illegal copies of games is theft and distributing them is black marketing, pure and simple and any justification to the contrary is a sign of an individual’s poor moral training..."



It's always funny when you hear an American talking about moral values...and "poor third world".



PS. My game is not pirated.

[PhoenixReborn]

jeff wrote:

It's always funny when you hear an American talking about moral values...and "poor third world".

An American and the American government are two seperate things.

[theGryphon]

Now returning to that example from the earlier post, if game cost were based on local conditions then all things considered with the exchange rate and strength of the economies, if we in NA are paying $50 US that means all you in the EU ought to being paying close to 60-70 US equivalent in Euros, now won’t that be fun.

First off, this is already the situation now: a game that costs US$45 in the US costs EU45 in the EU. Second, average GDP per capita is around US$30000 in the EU compared to US$45000 in the US, and it is much more variable - please do some research if you don't believe me - therefore the prices in the EU should be at most 2/3 of those in the US. Plus, I was talking about localization per countries or maybe regions to further capture the variability in willingness-to-pay. What I mean is that if the companies were hurt so badly by being pirated in Eastern Europe, South America, Middle East and Far East, they have tools to make localized versions (in respective languages) and market them. This wouldn't hurt English speaking users in richer countries like the US, the UK, Canada, Australia or French speaking countries like France or Canada (btw ) or Germany, etc. with more people to afford prices at US$45 or EU45. Finally, the argument "I don't want to pay US$45 so that the poor can buy the same thing for US$5" is so wrong. No matter what they do, if you are willing to pay US$45 then they will charge you for that. We live in a capitalist world and prices are literally determined by the customer base; if nobody buys at US$45, then they cannot charge that much. The pricing practice in the gaming industry now is like this: 1) start with the premium price which is around 40-50, so that some enthusiastic buyers will be able to afford it, 2) observe feedback and sales numbers, 3) markdown in time according to observations. Thus, they are not DIRECTLY hurt by piracy in anywhere but several creme of the crop countries.

Again the indirect effect is possibly the disregard of software as a product with a price and spread of the notion that "I don't have to pay for software". This is I believe a serious threat, because I'm thinking, "Why would a person who can afford not pay for something he uses?", and the answer is simply "Ignorance and/or lack of moral values".

This was more about the economical aspects of the issue. Before anybody flames me off: Using pirated software is equivalent to theft and guess what: it is wrong! Buying pirated software is even worse, and marketing it is much worse! Really...

[ywhtptgtfo]

I don't really pirate games. The only times I use Torrent is to DL a program I need for a school assignment or two (no sense in paying $800 for 2 uses).

[Muszka]

Making illegal copies of games is theft and distributing them is black marketing, pure and simple and any justification to the contrary is a sign of an individual’s poor moral training,

[jeff]

jeff wrote:

It's always funny when you hear an American talking about moral values...and "poor third world".

An American and the American government are two seperate things.

Thank you, many Americans do not condone our government’s actions, but I hold my values pretty dear, and do not appreciate flippant remarks assuming all Americans condone the mistreatment of the third world.

This was more about the economical aspects of the issue. Before anybody flames me off: Using pirated software is equivalent to theft and guess what: it is wrong! Buying pirated software is even worse, and marketing it is much worse! Really...

That was the major point I was making.

[Muszka]

You are talking about incorrectness of blind judgements, and still you condamned at least a whole country. How correct was that judgement? It's shame that you talk about 'the third world' and than you haven't only judged it blindly acuseing people you never knew, but you state that people are wrong when blaming blindly.

[Jaffenheimer]

I think that stealing (pirating) is a really good solution. Next time I need a new car, I will simply steal a Mercedes to see whether it is worth buying... Not that I can afford it anyway, but then they should just lower the price so that I can buy it...



Or why not just steal your food (to see whether it is worth buying)...



When do people learn that pirating IS stealing and nothing else.
Edited on Mon, Mar 03 2008, 01:55 by Jaffenheimer

[ywhtptgtfo]

>This was more about the economical aspects of the issue. Before anybody flames me off: Using pirated software is equivalent to theft and guess what: it is wrong!

>When do people learn that pirating IS stealing and nothing else.



I am pretty sure most people know that. It's just a matter of whether or not they'd let morality stand in their way.

[ThunderTitan]

Quick question: How many of you have ever borrowed a book or something from a friend, and ho do you justify not paying the books publisher, you damned krimals?!

Also, here's a nice take on the subject of pirating: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0 i believe it will enlighten most of you.

[PhoenixReborn]

You made a nice video TT.

Why don't libraries have video games?

[Bandobras Took]

Quick question: How many of you have ever borrowed a book or something from a friend, and ho do you justify not paying the books publisher, you damned krimals?!

1) I have yet to read an EULA on a book which prohibits lending or copying;
2) Piracy is not instance of lending. The appropriate question is "How many of you have ever made a complete copy of a friend's book, including cover art, and read it while your friend kept his own book?" The obvious answer is that we haven't, because that is criminal, and that is exactly what software piracy is;
3) A remarkable instance of such a thing occurred with the first American publication of Lord of the Rings -- Tolkien didn't approve it, and he didn't see a dime from all those people reading it. This was piracy, and he remained upset about it for the rest of his life.

For crying out loud, at least bring up a similar circumstance.

[Angelspit]

Why don't libraries have video games?

A library I used to go to rented PC games, surprisingly.

I always wondered how members were supposed to finish Morrowind in the three weeks time frame that was allowed for such rentals.

[Ya5MieL]

10 years ago my software was 100% pirated. Including the OS and all programs and games. ATM i would say i have around 70% of original software, with tendency of replacing that 30% with originals as soon as i can find them. As a kid, i didn't care much about the legal stuff, game was a game, and i even got unlicensed win98 with my computer straight from the legal distributor .



With that in mind.. does anyone know a legal way to grab a copy of all heroes chronicles. There seem to be one or two listed at ebay(mostly the same 2-3 episodes), but i never saw some online shop actually selling those. WHile i do know having pirated versions of those is illegal, i'm holding my hands on it until i can find originals somewhere.
Edited on Mon, Mar 03 2008, 11:09 by Ya5MieL

[Muszka]

Books...

What about the eBooks, that are copied? 'cos there are lots of those.

[PhoenixReborn]

I always wondered how members were supposed to finish Morrowind in the three weeks time frame that was allowed for such rentals.

LOL. That's about how long it takes to walk from Seyda Neen to Balmora without getting killed.

[Akul]

LOL. That's about how long it takes to walk from Seyda Neen to Balmora without getting killed.



It takes 30min every time I do it. Much less if I don't stop anywhere and even less ignoring the anoying load times.

[Pol]

. WHile i do know having pirated versions of those is illegal, i'm holding my hands on it until i can find originals somewhere.
Edited on Mon, Mar 03 2008, 11:09 by Ya5MieL

Could be that it maybe be allowed with Heroes Complete edition, you need to check for theirs license statement.

Similarily Heroes3 Complete stated that you have claims on AB video and missing bundled maps from previous releases if any.

Why don't libraries have video games?

They do, mostly in USA. Even here they are willing to lend you a video game but only for kids and only within two weeks. Same goes for musics, and you could be surprised how big riot it was and how the RIAA and ohers demanded.... (and they partially won , from this time libraries need to paying some fixed fee to actually provide this service and shortened the lending period afterward. )

[PhoenixReborn]

I've seen 1 video game at a library, a civil war strategy game that had a book with it.

Even in the library example, someone is being compensated at some point.

People even pirate Indie developer games made by 1 person and sold for a tiny sum...what's the point?

@Akul, it's exaageration to prove a point, and your first time through Morrowind you would stop to talk to people and look around.