Fabrice Answers Questions Too

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Unread postby Angelspit » 31 Jul 2006, 13:07

Fabrice Cambounet wrote a lenghty post <a href="/http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/ ... 089764">on the official forum</a> after receiving a series of pruivate messages from concerned players. It's mostly a clarification on the communications (or the lack of) between fans and the publisher, the patching process, and the status of the features that have been promised and not yet delivered. He explains that simultaneous turns and the map editor were never planned to be in the gold master: the editor showing up as a game feature on the Ubisoft US Web site was an error. However, both the editor and simultaneous turns will be delivered later. Fabrice also says that the remaining problems with multiplayer are being worked on <i>("what is remaining on MP is due to personal configurations")</i>, and the game's artificial intelligence is being refined. Despite the initial delay with the pathes, he still plans to release patches on a monthly basis. Read the whole thing all <a href="/http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/ ... 4">here</a>.

If you would like to take a look at the original page visit this link:
https://www.celestialheavens.com/1154351265
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Unread postby addicted » 31 Jul 2006, 13:38

I was just getting ready to post this on the CH forum when I seen your news post here so I decided to just go with your post. Thanx for posting this Angelspit. I for one feel a little more assured with Fabrice's post so I will continue to hold onto patience and give ubi the benifit of doubt.. I want this game to succeed but I do want it stabilized and I raally want the editor to be bug-free before they release it.. :)
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Unread postby Orfinn » 31 Jul 2006, 13:46

Well, as Fabrices post seems to indicate, they dont want to rush the map editor but take time along with the testers to make the ME as polished as possible. Calming to hear from Fabrice again, was a bit wondering when he would pop in and say hello since last time :P

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Unread postby DaemianLucifer » 31 Jul 2006, 14:40

Well,like alias-hw said,its all just propaganda.Especially fabrices whining about making patches,testing them,and translating them in 12 languages.We know its hard work,but why is nival then doing the stupid things like changing the looks of units when there are major features to be focused on?Also,I can understand their work on heroes been hidden,or their work on some unreleased game,but keeping their work on the patch hidden? 8|

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Unread postby Grumpy Old Wizard » 31 Jul 2006, 15:19

DaemianLucifer wrote:Well,like alias-hw said,its all just propaganda.Especially fabrices whining about making patches,testing them,and translating them in 12 languages.|
I do not see his post as "just propaganda" and I do not see a whine in his post. I do see a whole lot of whining going on around here.

He stated that they are working on making the map editor more user friendly. I believe that that is true and not just propaganda. It is good that they want the editor to be polished and user friendly rather than just releasing one and saying "ok we fulfilled our promise."

He stated that multiple versions of the patch are being worked on simultaneously. I believe that that is true and not just propaganda. They could chose to only work on one at a time and release it before they start on the next one. Then eveyone who didn't get it the first time would be whining.

Everything takes time. Tracking down bugs in programming can be difficult. It appears to me that Ubi/Nival is doing everything it can do at this point. We need to show a bit of patience and sensibility.

Yes, there are things I want to see changed (like the academy currently being underpowered and the summoning tree lacking in useful spells) but I am going to try to be patient too.

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Unread postby Orfinn » 31 Jul 2006, 15:23

@DL



They follow the same pattern as with full games, its a bit lame if they announce thath THIS will be in or that and none of them in the end will be included at all anyway. And I rather blame Nival, Ubi at least have a vision on how the game should be IMO a good way, Nival just screws around tumbling and nitpicking on features and things they should let be or have as a second priority.
Edited on Mon, Jul 31 2006, 09:24 by Orfinn

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Unread postby stijn » 31 Jul 2006, 15:42

I do not see his post as "just propaganda" and I do not see a whine in his post. I do see a whole lot of whining going on around here.
i'm agree :)
the summoning tree lacking in useful spells
apart from the 2 best and imbalanced spells i guess? (phantom forces and raise dead. conjure phoenix ain't bad either)

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Unread postby Alais_Servius » 31 Jul 2006, 16:44

I do not see his post as "just propaganda" and I do not see a whine in his post. I do see a whole lot of whining going on around here.



Agreed.

Patience people. That's the clue.

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Re: Fabrice Answers Questions Too

Unread postby LordErtz » 31 Jul 2006, 16:51

Alais_Servius wrote:I do not see his post as "just propaganda" and I do not see a whine in his post. I do see a whole lot of whining going on around here.



Agreed.

Patience people. That's the clue.

How long do you think people have to have patience before they lose it???

It's been months. We've been waiting. What's the limit?

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Unread postby omegaweix » 31 Jul 2006, 17:53

Well, sounds nice but what i really really miss is an explanation for the things that 1.2 screwed up....



....even a "we are sorry, didn't realize that X,Y and Z were done wrong in the patch... we will surely correct this with 1.3 or later" excuse would have been enough for me!



So, maybe my missing spell descriptions will last forever?

And the ATB bar will stay like this?

He wrote a plenty but said very little!
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Unread postby Ethric » 31 Jul 2006, 19:54

Just a few things from one who don't know squat about making games, but a fair bit about complaining:

"This patching process is a new process overall, and it took some time to start : this is where the current delay is coming from."

New perhaps, as the game is still fairly new. But it shouldn't really come as a surprise to anyone that patching is needed, should it? It's something any halfdecent company would expect and prepare for as early as possible.

"We need to make it more user-friendly than what it is now. Quite a few people are testing it and would tell you the same thing."

Odd that they made it so user unfriendly from the start with in my opinion. That it's a bit rough around the edges and don't really have an interface suitable for the "common man", sure. But from what was said a while ago about the editor, it sounded like they had to rewrite the whole thing (or quite a lot of it, at least). Seems like a roundabout and inefficient way to go about it, as opposed to keeping in mind from the get-go that this will have to be made available and useable to the public shortly after release.

"Most of what a game company is working on is kept secret until released. I think on the heroes production I disclosed quite a lot, and perhaps you got accustomed to it ?"

Didn't disclose more than is usual to keep the masses interested and build up the hype.
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Unread postby Sir Charles » 31 Jul 2006, 21:16

Quote from Ethric: "New perhaps, as the game is still fairly new. But it shouldn't really come as a surprise to anyone that patching is needed, should it? It's something any halfdecent company would expect and prepare for as early as possible."



I think you misunderstood Fabrice here. He (and nival & ubisoft) was fully aware that they'd be patching the game. What he was referring to is the fact that the software program that they're using for implementing patches is a new one and Nival had never used it before. So they're having to learn how to use it and implement it properly. Hence the delay.



As for the user-friendly-ness of the editor...well, to a programmer who designed the game, the original editor made perfect sence. But there were lots of abbreviations and technical terms that the common gamer wouldn't understand. That's where the biggest changes are. The rest are things like adjusting the user interface and cosmetic changes.



@Omegaweix

Okay, what are all these things that 1.2 screwed up? I'm seriously not seeing them. The ATB bar...they didn't screw it up...they adjusted it, but they adjusted it too far. It was never really correct. Spell descriptions? I've got them in mine. They even added information on the projected impacts of the spells, so I'm not following you on this one. Other than that I've only noticed some typo's. So where's the big problem with the 1.2 patch? Just curious.
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Unread postby Gaidal Cain » 31 Jul 2006, 21:41

Sir Charles wrote: Okay, what are all these things that 1.2 screwed up? I'm seriously not seeing them. The ATB bar...they didn't screw it up...they adjusted it, but they adjusted it too far. It was never really correct. Spell descriptions? I've got them in mine. They even added information on the projected impacts of the spells, so I'm not following you on this one. Other than that I've only noticed some typo's. So where's the big problem with the 1.2 patch? Just curious.
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Unread postby Sir Charles » 31 Jul 2006, 23:36

Really? You're considering THESE as problems? The gremlin change isn't a bug, it's a designed change. Same with the summon elemental spell. Don't be surprised if we see more changes along these lines with future patches. Several spells/abilities need balancing a bit. Stijn (earlier in this thread) pointed out a couple spells that need attention already (raise dead and phantom forces). Everyone will go nuts over the changes (I did the same with the gremlin change) but they'll adapt and get used to the changes. I for one see the gremlin change as an improvement (same with the summon elementals) but hopefully they'll add more to help the Academy compete.



The disappearing ship isn't a bug either. Another town summoned it before you boarded. I think that spell should be changed to summoning only YOUR ship, but still...not a bug.



The thing with the catapult and walls I haven't witnessed so I can't comment.



The special aura access point...again, not a bug. This is how they intended it to work. This should only be accessible from the main menu...not DURING a game.



The rest of these have yet to be confirmed and some are small video glitches that were already there and haven't been corrected yet.



All in all, I fail to see why people are complaining about this patch so much. It added some new features, fixed some broken ones, and enhanced the gameplay. WHERE exactly is the problem again? *sigh*
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Unread postby HodgePodge » 01 Aug 2006, 00:18

I don't think anyone actually wants to complain about Heroes 5. It's a good game with lots of potential. I think mostly, people are upset with the way we, the fans & customers, have been treated and patronized by UbiSoft.

For example: a post by Fabrice mentions that "Heroes fans are never satisfied" . Well, that's just not true.
  • We'd be satisfied if we got a finished game and all of the features which were advertised and promised.

    We'd be satisfied if the promises which were made after release were kept and if time constraints were an issue, then it would be a professional move on UbiSoft's part to let people know.

    We'd be satisfied if we were told the truth. For example: the Email maps … we were promised two NEW maps, not just the same rehashed ones that came with the Collector's Edition & Limited Edition.
It's issues like these that are causing the fans and forum members not to hate Heroes, but to hate and not trust UbiSoft. How many times can someone be fooled and lied to by a company before one gets fed up.

Now this old adage has become a new motto for UbiSoft:

No one believes a liar, even when they are telling the truth!
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Unread postby Kristo » 01 Aug 2006, 00:58

You know, Ubisoft doesn't have to release these patches at all. They already have your money. They're trying to maintain enough interest in the game (and maybe build some more) to make an expansion pack profitable. So if you guys aren't happy about the way things are being handled, start talking with your money. Don't buy the expansion pack when it comes out. All the talk in the world won't make a gaming company change its ways. Things will never be different until it starts hurting them in the pocketbook.

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Unread postby asandir » 01 Aug 2006, 01:02

the thing that really gets me is much what hodgepodge stated, and i also agree with kristo .... unless they can show a great deal more professionalism with the editor and patching then has been shown to date, they can stick the expansion where it fits
Edited on Mon, Jul 31 2006, 19:03 by stefan.urlus
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Unread postby Grumpy Old Wizard » 01 Aug 2006, 03:14

I say give Ubi some more time. Yes, they certainly made a mistake by promising 2 new maps and then giving what some others have (I had the US regular version, so I did not have them.) So in my book they have that against them.

However, they did make HOMM5 and are working on patches and probably an expansion, which is good. The series could be dead with the death of 3DO.

I hear a lot of I want, I want, I want NOW damit! Let us all calm down and try to be a little more patient.

As for monthy patches, I see that as a goal, not as a promise. How can they predict that a problem will not cause the patch to run a bit more than a month? Lets be realistic here.

As I have said before, I too think there need to be some changes (balances.) Let us focus our critism constructively.

I have somewhat more to say but I am rather grumpy and somewhat drunk at the moment so I'll not go into that now. :)

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Unread postby DaemianLucifer » 01 Aug 2006, 04:33

Grumpy Old Wizard wrote:I say give Ubi some more time. Yes, they certainly made a mistake by promising 2 new maps and then giving what some others have (I had the US regular version, so I did not have them.) So in my book they have that against them.
Why should we?They made the deadline for the heroes game,not us.We wanted it to come out later but finished,didnt we?But now that they rushed it,its just normal for us to want it finished,if not polished.They made that deadline themselves,so they better stick to it.If they want more of our money,that is.
Grumpy Old Wizard wrote: However, they did make HOMM5 and are working on patches and probably an expansion, which is good. The series could be dead with the death of 3DO.
Oh please!Its better to let the series die with whats left of its dignity then to revive it and drag it around in dirt.
Sir Charles wrote:Really? You're considering THESE as problems? The gremlin change isn't a bug, it's a designed change. Same with the summon elemental spell.
A designer change doesnt necessarilly mean its a good one.
Sir Charles wrote:
The disappearing ship isn't a bug either. Another town summoned it before you boarded. I think that spell should be changed to summoning only YOUR ship, but still...not a bug.
You shouldve read the original comment on this one.The ship disappears when you come near it to board it.On that turn,not the next one.I dont see this posible without sim turns,unless its a bug.
Sir Charles wrote:
The thing with the catapult and walls I haven't witnessed so I can't comment.
Happened to me lots of times.
Sir Charles wrote:
All in all, I fail to see why people are complaining about this patch so much. It added some new features, fixed some broken ones, and enhanced the gameplay. WHERE exactly is the problem again? *sigh*
AI,for example,being weaker.And really,they fixed what?The looks of some units?Yes,it was a real gamebreaker.

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Unread postby Daelius Praal » 01 Aug 2006, 05:57

> I say give Ubi some more time.



More time??? :))



This is all so hilarious. I would like to ask you people, would you buy a cold and half baked bread? I guess not. You look at it, smell it, get disgusted and go to another shop and buy a real good bread.



But in the software world, the trend seems to be: just release the stupid thing and get the money, they'll never know it's half baked, they need to buy it first. And after they bought it, they're stuck to it. Let them hope for patches.



What would a patch be to a half baked bread? Someone would come to your house and bake it some more? Come on, let's be serious. Heroes is dying of a terrible death, and it needs 2 version to do so. Well since the last version was not that good also, I guess this one is gonna put a cross on its tomb.



And for people working on the game, shame to have ever released such a "product". I am myself a software developer, and the "oh my god it's so hard to write code, build, test and debug" argument is more than a silly excuse. All software companies go through the same process, and if it's that "hard" it means you need to hire some people that know what they are doing.



Oh please! Give them more time... phu, they took your money when you bought it didn't they? They should have taken more time before selling it.


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