Bandobras Took wrote:Why not? It's the current method. Take a little part of the whole, decide you don't like it, and complain about it. They didn't fix artifact descriptions in the patch? They're lazy. They did? Why are they wasting time on that? Either way, they're not listening to the fans.
Well then,you should read me more carefully.I complained that artifact descriptions were missing from the initial release.Its fixed in a patch?Well good,one problem solved,many more left.I continued to complain about the problems I complained before,but didnt got fixed(overpowered spells,lousy story,for example),I never said that they wasted time on that.But they did waste time on trivialities like changing the looks of blood witches(or some other unit,I dont care,because it looked fine before,it looks fine now,so its like nothing changed at all).
Bandobras Took wrote:Great, so the fans want:
1) No delay on the map editor;
2) More maps;
3) No delay on patches; and
4) Patches that fix more than just a handful of bugs.
Except, given what you just said, the fans wanted delay so that everything could be finished and polished. And what happens when they delay a map editor so that they can finish and polish it? The fans don't want a delay. Either way, they're not going to win with that list of demands. No delay, but significant and flawless improvements anyway. Yeesh, if the fans give them contradictory requests, they're going to have to pick one eventually.
There is a diference between delaying the whole product and delaying the patches.While delaying the whole game in order to polish it is fine,delaying patches is not.When the final release comes it is expected to be just that,the FINAL
release,meaning it needs no fixing.But if it so happenes that a small bug went through,it should be fixed the moment its spotted,and the patch for it released as soon as posible.
Bandobras Took wrote:Because all fans approve of these things?
Ill just say caravans.Check the polls.How many people wanted caravans in?Almost everyone.Even those that think HIV came straight from hell and should be banished forever.
Bandobras Took wrote:Because they couldn't decide to delay other races until an expansion, when they've got a clearer idea of the game balance?
I never said that there have to be dwarves at all cost,just that the fans made briliant proposals.Hopefully not all of those will be overlooked.
Bandobras Took wrote:Of which I do not approve. If they had put it in, I could happily rant about it for the next 5,000 posts and claim that had not listened to the fans because they didn't use my ideas. Just because one cannot see what reason Nival had for not doing something does not mean they had no reason.
Im not saying that everyone loves stack XP,just that it shouldve been considered.Maybe it has,I dont know.But I doubt it.
Bandobras Took wrote:Let them speak for themselves, then. Get a firm testimonial from either crew.
And then ask Ubi's corporate lawyers what they think of the idea.
Ok,let them.I ask now anyone working on WoG and equi,would you be willing to work on some HV features for no money at all if you were asked to by the developers?
Bandobras Took wrote:I have no problems with criticisms; I've made a few myself. It's the manner in which it is done that's not going to make them any more eager to take suggestions.
And given that not everybody agrees with what ought to have been done with Heroes 5, losing hope and become a critic seems more akin to throwing a fit because you didn't get what you wanted.
Lets see...You hope for some of the errors to be fixed from previous sequels,yet the good things to still stay in the game.But during the whole development process you see the old errors reemerging,and those things that were very good simply slip back into the oblivion.The constructive criticism from me disappeared once I saw that all of the problems from HIII are back,with none of them fixed,even though those were fixed in HIV.Thats is not
a smart evolution,like they stated.Yes,I am angry.Justfully angry.
Bandobras Took wrote:Correct. Those of us who have no clue what Nival's doing on an average work week have no right to say what Nival's doing on an average work week. If anybody who works at Nival would like to give us a heads up, then we might have something concrete and solid to complain about. Otherwise, "Nival's lazy because I don't get what I want" is the cry of a spoiled child.
You know,there are business standards.Those arent different when it comes to software development or car assembly.
Bandobras Took wrote:Yep. The sarcasm of Thunder Titan is meant to communicate that Ubi didn't do enough with the patch. Or that they released the game too soon, and the patch should have been included with the inital release, pushing back the release date.
Your comment is that as soon as they get enough features that work, they should release.
So which is it? Should Ubi, for example, release the map editor when enough features work, as quickly as possible, or should they delay it past the promised date to make sure that it's polished and finished?
Tell them what the fans want. Speak up.
Again,you are confusing the final game release with the patches.Those two are not
the same.While the game needs to be fully polished on its final release with as little bugs as posible,the patches should come out as soon as they are tested.The developers today rely on patching too much,so they think that they can release the game whenever they want and patch it during the next year.Wrong.Its the initial final release that is being sold,and not the patches.
Bandobras Took wrote:Yep. But the fans didn't care about optimization or fixing the ATB or the addition of an Easy difficulty or the toning down of some Campaign Maps. They waved around the artifact descriptions as something Nival was too lazy to do as though that were the important thing. All it would have taken was a little time with the patch to find out that the problem had been fixed.
Yes it is nice that they added the easy difficulty,and that they fixed the bar,but about nerfing the maps I disagree.Those maps were chalenging and they shouldve been made easier just on the newly added easy difficulty.And to use one of your previous arguments:Now everyone liked the nerfing of those maps,I know I didnt.
Bandobras Took wrote:It's a symptom of a much larger problem with the majority of complainers: their unfinching ability to assign factual statements with a complete lack of solid evidence.
Complainers told us artifact descriptions were missing from the patch based on a news release. It apparently never occurred to them to install the patch and see if Nival considered that too trivial to be mentioned in the news release.
Yet there are those of us that complain about the bugs that are still there,or about those that got added.Not everyone complains just for the sake of complaining.
Bandobras Took wrote:Likewise, people assume maliciousness/laziness in a delayed map editor. There's no evidence for this. They assume maliciousness/laziness in a non-delayed release. There's also no evidence for this.
Really?They had time enough to fix mages hat,didnt they?I find that to be poor prioritization.
Bandobras Took wrote:They assume that game is critically bugged because it does not run on their machines. Perhaps mine is the only machine in existence where it runs smoothly, but statistically speaking, I doubt it.
Check the bug thread then.Yes,the game is critically bugged.CivIV works perfectly on mine machine with no patches,yet I still admit the game has a lot of bugs since so many people complained about it.
Bandobras Took wrote:If you read the thread, his complaint was eventually found to be that certain heroes would be weaker through constricted skill selection than others. Then he revealed his ignorance of one of the more basic skills of the Demon Lord. He was complaining without play experience or firsthand observation to back it up. That's not a good way to get the point across.
Those arguments of his were faulty,but the essence of his complaints,the way I see it,is that the skill system is flawed because it is limmited.
Bandobras Took wrote:Oh, I remember the old forums quite vividly. For example, when the first concept art for the Angel came out, and everybody started complaining that it was Anime (which it wasn't, the style comes nearly directly out of the French comic books I've seen while in France), that the Angel was female (there's the crowd that wants something new, all right), that there was overt religious reference (never mind a building in H2 called a Cathedral that produces Crusaders -- no overt religious reference there!). I also remember quite a few maniacs with pet theories who would repeatedly post them until sensible suggestions were drowned out.
I still complain about the inquisitors angels and devils.Angels and devils shouldve never appeared in the first place.Yes,its too much western religion.And the angel is anima.Anima is not just the japanese drawing style.
Bandobras Took wrote:If the fans gave their skills for free, why are you hanging around waiting for a receipt?
Im not waiting for it.
Bandobras Took wrote:If somebody with the best of intentions offers me a basket full of refuse for free, I'm under no obligation to accept. I'd still be very polite in thanking them.
Refuse?Really,reread all of those proposals.Sure,there are dumb ones(biclops
),but there are briliant ones as well.Besides,its not like everything nival came up with is oh-so-goody-good-beautiful(hell charger,for example).
Bandobras Took wrote:It's wonderful sentimentality to believe that everybody who offers something up for free ought to see their suggestion implemented, but it's not going to result in a good game.
True,but I expect at least the best proposals to appear.It happend with civ,and thats why I praise that game so much.
Bandobras Took wrote:Once we admit that decisions on what to accept and reject have to be made, somebody's going to end up disappointed.
I don't believe any fan makes a suggestion because they think it will be a bad idea for heroes. Of course those who don't see their suggestions implemented are going to think it weakens the game -- they wouldn't have made the suggestions if they didn't think they were an improvement.
Again true.But I am not amongst thoe that complain about my suggestions being not implemented.Im complaining that the best suggestions are not implemented.Chaotic upgrades was not my suggestion,yet the way it got developed in the old table had some very nice things in it.Some fans even went as far as balance it completely for nine races.Sure,a few tweaks were needed for those proposals too,but those were very small tweaks.
Bandobras Took wrote:I personally am rather upset that I can't really play the game with my nephew, because of the explicit nature of Dungeon troops. And everybody in my community who I know plays Heroes feels exactly the same way. But this by no means indicates that Nival is not listening to the fans.
Does the inclusion of a sexpot faction indicate that Nival is ignoring the fans and acting against the best interests of the game by alienating the family/religious crowds?
They even went so far in the patch as to redesign one of the models. Talk about adding insult to injury.
If I were following standard complaint format on Celestial Heavens as it stands, I would be posting in every thread (it doesn't matter the topic) and turn it to a discussion of morality. I would also make startling statements about the sexual preferences and habits of every Nival employee, whether I have direct experience with such or not. I would finish up by, whenever a Nival/Ubi employee posted in this forum, searching his/her comments for any sign of sexual innuendo, and take this as proof positive of my assumptions about their private lives.
Then do.Fight for your beliefes.I for one dont feel anything wrong with a bit obscene dressing(although I do find it idiotic for fighters to dress like that).But if you disagree with that,then say so.If you just shut up no one will know that some people find it immoral.
Bandobras Took wrote:It's not the complaints I'm complaining about. It's the manner, conduct, and abrasive prolixity of those who complain that strikes me as singularly ill-mannered, and ensure that Ubi/Nival will likely bypass CH as a source for ideas in favor of forums where people express complaints in a polite, intelligent manner, and accept denials with good grace and patience.
I never found CH to be impolite,or the complaints to be noninteligent or without any just points.Calling someone lazy,and saying why you think so is not an insult.But calling someone an idiot and never saying why you think that is just a dumb insult.See the difference?
Bandobras Took wrote:Because outrage over a computer game is really rather silly, and outrage against a crushing corporate/economic structure that strangles creativity in favor of profit is probably better handled through politics/revolutionary means than spamming a fansite's forums?
Speaking personally, I've never had an experience where anybody -- myself included, was justified in losing their temper. People getting angry and lashing out were ones incapable of seeing both sides of the story, which is a fairly crippling blindness.
I disagree here.If enough people complain about one thing,it gets changed.Hey,its why HIV is being disregarded in the first place.Its why we never had the forge town.
And though there are people that see just one side,I dont think those people are numerous here.I,and others that dont like HV still admit that there are good things about it.Those that like HV still admit that there are things that need fixing.