Nival Answers: Part Trois

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Gaidal Cain
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Postby Gaidal Cain » Jul 9 2006, 17:25

Yes, you did ;)
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Postby theLuckyDragon » Jul 9 2006, 18:17

Of course. There's a Sell Artifacts button in the lower left part of the screen.
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Postby Ethric » Jul 11 2006, 19:38

Lord_Haart wrote:MAYBE the liches are just able to CONTROL their magic, so that the acid is only aimed at enemies...



Nah... that makes too much sense to be true...


The deathcloud doesn't affect friendly non-undeads? Or did I miss something in that post?
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Postby LordErtz » Jul 11 2006, 19:43

Ethric wrote:
Lord_Haart wrote:MAYBE the liches are just able to CONTROL their magic, so that the acid is only aimed at enemies...



Nah... that makes too much sense to be true...


The deathcloud doesn't affect friendly non-undeads? Or did I miss something in that post?


No, it affects friendly non-undeads...they were just trying to figure out a reason for why it doesnt affect friendly undeads. Nothing technical with the game, since it's supposed to work that way. Just brainstorming on how the liches can do it.

I think its just since the undead are already "dead" they arent hurt by the acid spray just like they arent hurt by decay and the like. But when they use it on one undead enemy, it is concentrated on them so it hurts...? :P

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Postby DaemianLucifer » Jul 12 2006, 0:54

LordErtz wrote:I think its just since the undead are already "dead" they arent hurt by the acid spray just like they arent hurt by decay and the like. But when they use it on one undead enemy, it is concentrated on them so it hurts...? :P


Yet it affects constructs,but they arent really alive.

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Postby ThunderTitan » Jul 12 2006, 10:43

DaemianLucifer wrote:Yet it affects constructs,but they arent really alive.


It some sort of Decay Cloud, and as undead are already decayed....
As constructs are made of stuff that's not decayed, it affects them.
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Postby DaemianLucifer » Jul 12 2006, 10:54

ThunderTitan wrote: It some sort of Decay Cloud, and as undead are already decayed....
As constructs are made of stuff that's not decayed, it affects them.


Wrong,because undead are made out of carcasses,and carcasses also decay,with dust as their final stage,so only the incorporeal(ghosts,wraiths and spectral dragons)undead should be uneffected.

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Postby ThunderTitan » Jul 12 2006, 11:29

DaemianLucifer wrote:Wrong,because undead are made out of carcasses,and carcasses also decay,with dust as their final stage


Which is something Necromancers don't want to happen, so their magic stops.... if not an undead army would have a very short unlifespan. It's magic. :tongue:

Or Death Cloud affects only that which hasn't begun decaying yet.
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Postby Ethric » Jul 12 2006, 12:42

Well undeads don't really decay much more after being raised, else the armies wouldn't last long. Preservatives added to the raise-spells see to that ;)

It's all just a matter of finding some explanation that fits, it's all made up anyway. So can't see much good in arguing this particular point.
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Postby DaemianLucifer » Jul 12 2006, 13:19

ThunderTitan wrote: Which is something Necromancers don't want to happen, so their magic stops.... if not an undead army would have a very short unlifespan. It's magic. :tongue:


Ethric wrote:Well undeads don't really decay much more after being raised, else the armies wouldn't last long. Preservatives added to the raise-spells see to that ;)


Though its true that natural decaying is slowed down,magical one(like the proposed decaying affect of the cloud)would counter that and the corpse would decompose.

ThunderTitan wrote: Or Death Cloud affects only that which hasn't begun decaying yet.


Ethric wrote:It's all just a matter of finding some explanation that fits, it's all made up anyway. So can't see much good in arguing this particular point.


The only reasonable explanation I see is that nival didnt give it much thought and screwed up.

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Postby LordErtz » Jul 12 2006, 15:50

Decay doesn't work on undead. Use that with your logic now, guys. Undead can't decay it seems. Or they are already decaying just without damage.

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Postby Qurqirish Dragon » Jul 12 2006, 16:34

DaemianLucifer wrote:The only reasonable explanation I see is that nival didnt give it much thought and screwed up.


Actually, the reason is probably the same as why the succubus chain-shot doesn't effect inferno forces- a unit is not going to deliberately hurt its allies.

Look at the Heroes 2 liches- their area attack did damage all adjacent units, and so the lich became practically useless once melee battle began.

That problem was corrected in H3, but there they introduced the magog problem (one reason that in H3 I never upgraded gogs!)

If the shots could be targeted at an open space (like aoe spells), then this need wouldn't be there, as you could aim to avoid your own troops.

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Postby ThunderTitan » Jul 12 2006, 16:38

DaemianLucifer wrote:The only reasonable explanation I see is that nival didnt give it much thought and screwed up.


Or just said: "screw it, let the fans come up with an explination"!

By way of Eberron: the Undead are powered by Negative energy, and the Death Cloud is too, so anything powered by Negative energy isn't hurt by it, but everything that isn't is.


Or you can say that the magic that stops decaying can only be broken by the main, more powerfull attack, and the Cloud itself is too weak to break the Necromancy spell keeping them from decaying.
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Postby DaemianLucifer » Jul 12 2006, 22:59

LordErtz wrote:Decay doesn't work on undead. Use that with your logic now, guys. Undead can't decay it seems. Or they are already decaying just without damage.


Yeah,but zombies can weaken them,even though their description says it affects the living.

ThunderTitan wrote: By way of Eberron: the Undead are powered by Negative energy, and the Death Cloud is too, so anything powered by Negative energy isn't hurt by it, but everything that isn't is.


And demons are powered by positive eneregy?Then why doesnt the curse of netherworld affect them?

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Postby Paradox » Jul 13 2006, 3:00

the map editor comment is interesting i think. i imagine it has menu's and windows for editing creatures, stats, numerous other things. basically a more expanded version of that H5 Tweaker utility someone made, a GUI for editing the game files.

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Postby ThunderTitan » Jul 13 2006, 12:54

DaemianLucifer wrote:And demons are powered by positive eneregy?Then why doesnt the curse of netherworld affect them?


No, undead elves are positive energy.... keep the Eberron conection alive. Demons are Chaos or something.


And my second point about intensity still stands.
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Postby DaemianLucifer » Jul 13 2006, 13:13

ThunderTitan wrote: Or you can say that the magic that stops decaying can only be broken by the main, more powerfull attack, and the Cloud itself is too weak to break the Necromancy spell keeping them from decaying.


Yet it works perfectly on golems even though these are held by very similar magic as the undead.

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Postby ThunderTitan » Jul 13 2006, 13:25

DaemianLucifer wrote:Yet it works perfectly on golems even though these are held by very similar magic as the undead.


Yeah, making a piece or rock/metal move is most definatly the same as raising the dead.... :disagree:
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Postby LordErtz » Jul 13 2006, 16:43

ThunderTitan wrote:
DaemianLucifer wrote:Yet it works perfectly on golems even though these are held by very similar magic as the undead.


Yeah, making a piece or rock/metal move is most definatly the same as raising the dead.... :disagree:


Well, if I remember correctly, the wizards animate golems to give them life, same way the undead raise the dead to give them "life." I remember in a story about the wizards, that it is seemingly similar to dark magics.

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Postby ThunderTitan » Jul 13 2006, 17:47

LordErtz wrote:Well, if I remember correctly, the wizards animate golems to give them life, same way the undead raise the dead to give them "life." I remember in a story about the wizards, that it is seemingly similar to dark magics.



Doesn't sound that way to me:
Golems are mechanical statues that have been magically animated by the mages.
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