Marzhin and Penin Twitching in May

Discussions about the latest news in the Might and Magic community.

Moderators: Moderators, Celestial Heavens Staff

User avatar
Kalah
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 20000
Joined: 24 Nov 2005

Marzhin and Penin Twitching in May

Postby Kalah » May 14 2015, 19:07

Two of the designers working on <i>Heroes VII</i> will appear for another talk on <b><a href="http://www.twitch.tv/ubisoft">TWITCH</a></b>, May 21st at 7pm CEST.

If you want to see what they have to say first-hand, you can watch that stream live by tuning in at the right time. Make a note in your calender.

If you would like to take a look at the original page visit this link:
http://www.celestialheavens.com/viewpag ... 1431630449
In War: Resolution, In Defeat: Defiance, In Victory: Magnanimity, In Peace: Goodwill.

mr.hackcrag
Archangel
Archangel
Posts: 1441
Joined: 05 Jul 2006

Postby mr.hackcrag » May 14 2015, 23:55

Are they actually playing or just talking? If they're just talking, then :slap:

Wizard of Soz
Leprechaun
Leprechaun
Posts: 49
Joined: 19 Jul 2012

Postby Wizard of Soz » May 19 2015, 12:30

Ok, I am a Newb to Twitch. Do you have to watch it live, or is there a recording that you can go back to and watch later?

User avatar
Kalah
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 20000
Joined: 24 Nov 2005

Marzhin and Penin Twitching in May

Postby Kalah » May 19 2015, 13:16

It's live like a TV broadcast (podcast), but sometimes it's stored somewhere so you can watch it later. Not sure what they'll do in this case, but I imagine it could be stored somewhere.
In War: Resolution, In Defeat: Defiance, In Victory: Magnanimity, In Peace: Goodwill.

User avatar
LordGraa
Leprechaun
Leprechaun
Posts: 29
Joined: 06 Jan 2006
Location: Prague
Contact:

Marzhin and Penin Twitching in May

Postby LordGraa » May 19 2015, 13:57

They are archiving those videos so you can find them later and watch them.

http://www.twitch.tv/ubisoft/b/578728829
http://www.worldofheroes.cz - Czech Heroes Fansite
http://wpu.worldofheroes.cz/indexEN.html - H7 community project Wryn Pendragon: Umbramancer

User avatar
Kalah
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 20000
Joined: 24 Nov 2005

Postby Kalah » May 21 2015, 19:00

The video is available here. :)

I'm watching it right now. Marzhin is a tease with the collector's box. And random skills will be in the game; not sure I understood what they meant, by that, though.

Release is set for September - tentative date but Limbic are confident.

So far the AI works, but isn't very good yet. But it doesn't cheat. It will cheat by starting with higher troops/resources on the higher difficulty settings, but only at the start.

The campaigns are laid up as in H4: separate plots that you can play separately, but which tie in with the main story. It's not like H6, where the campaigns were tightly connected.

That's it. To conclude: good video, although I could have wished for more direct Q&A in it. My English is way better, and Marzhin is a tease. ;)
In War: Resolution, In Defeat: Defiance, In Victory: Magnanimity, In Peace: Goodwill.

mr.hackcrag
Archangel
Archangel
Posts: 1441
Joined: 05 Jul 2006

Postby mr.hackcrag » May 22 2015, 8:24

What did you guys think of the gameplay?

After watching segments of it, here are a few impressions of areas that I think need care and attention:

1. Town/Hero screen interfaces are not that appealing to the eye.

2. Battle animations seem slow/clunky and not very exciting. Battle system has changed so little that it kind of looks like a chore rather than a source of entertainment.

3. Why have we not yet moved away from single unit type neutral battles?

4. I'm not a fan of the constant camera changing views on battle screen and even the zooming on the adventure screen... They won't do 3D town screens - I wish they would also not do 3D adventure screens :(

User avatar
prichindel
Leprechaun
Leprechaun
Posts: 13
Joined: 06 Jan 2006

Marzhin and Penin Twitching in May

Postby prichindel » May 22 2015, 8:43

@mr.hackcrag
The game looks promising. I could see from the interview that the developers put a lot of hard work each day into it. The spells, random map generator, random skills and map editor may give the game a longer life than Heroes VI. Will have to wait and see how they turn out.

About your questions:

1. I think the focus right now is behind the interface, on the game mechanics and so on. It will surely be redefined before launch. It could use more colors than brown :P

2. They mentioned that the speed of the animations was slower only for the demonstration. It can be changed.

3. That would be a good idea.

4. They said 3D townscreens are very costly (were half the art budget for Heroes V), and while you would spend some time at the beginning marveling at the spinning screen, then you would just enter, do your things and exit fast. So, yeah, I agree that they look cool, but I also agree that spending the resources on the other aspects of the game is more important.
The action cameras can be disabled like in the previous games.

5. In a personal opinion, I think the devs should also focus their presentations/videos on the new features that Heroes VII brings to the series.

Cheers!
Edited on Fri, May 22 2015, 04:45 by prichindel

mr.hackcrag
Archangel
Archangel
Posts: 1441
Joined: 05 Jul 2006

Re: Marzhin and Penin Twitching in May

Postby mr.hackcrag » May 22 2015, 21:21

It's not just that the animation were slow, they were so poorly executed. Watching the units perform actions actually sucked the enjoyment out of the battles for me.

prichindel wrote:5. In a personal opinion, I think the devs should also focus their presentations/videos on the new features that Heroes VII brings to the series.


Because this game brings hardly any new features, they are unable to do this. It's the main reason I won't buy this game - because it's not a fresh and innovative game; it's the 800th copy pasta of the past decade or so.

User avatar
Galaad
Vampire
Vampire
Posts: 911
Joined: 06 Mar 2015

Re: Marzhin and Penin Twitching in May

Postby Galaad » May 23 2015, 11:01

mr.hackcrag wrote:it's the 800th copy pasta of the past decade or so.

Not even a good copy-pasta. And tbh, last time they tried to be "innovative" it didn't turn out so well.

mr.hackcrag
Archangel
Archangel
Posts: 1441
Joined: 05 Jul 2006

Postby mr.hackcrag » May 23 2015, 20:09

I don't care whether or not the developer has talent or vision. I would rather they try and fail again, than copy game over with mediocre results.

mr.hackcrag
Archangel
Archangel
Posts: 1441
Joined: 05 Jul 2006

Postby mr.hackcrag » May 24 2015, 2:53

I just discovered this article about the subject. I found the comments more insightful than the article though.

http://www.pcgamesn.com/heroes-of-might ... ative-fans

User avatar
Galaad
Vampire
Vampire
Posts: 911
Joined: 06 Mar 2015

Postby Galaad » May 24 2015, 11:10

This article is a bunch of lies and direct insult towards any die-hard fan.

Kalah wrote:good video

Are you kidding??! This video clearly shows lead game designer doesn't have a clue about what HOMM is and how it is supposed to be played and Marzhin finds it interesting to "be a tease" and seems proud not to like h3 much (which is his right ofc).

Yes Heroes 4 had good features, where are those in Heroes 7, the "very best of"? IMO governor is just another excuse to justify their whole ZOC thingy.

And what about Heroes 2? Town development or upgrade system of units just for example.

User avatar
Kalah
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 20000
Joined: 24 Nov 2005

Postby Kalah » May 24 2015, 15:09

@Galaad: You are confusing your own opinion with fact. If we placed ten die-hard HoMM fans in the same room, there would be huge differences in opnions about "what HoMM is" and which features of the old games were good. Marzhin himself is a big fan of the series and came into the creation process after being recruited to do some work on it (see question 11-12 here). I doubt we will ever see the end of that debate though.
In War: Resolution, In Defeat: Defiance, In Victory: Magnanimity, In Peace: Goodwill.

User avatar
Salamandre
Genie
Genie
Posts: 1032
Joined: 13 May 2006
Location: France
Contact:

Postby Salamandre » May 24 2015, 15:29

I think it depends on the definition of "die hard". Does it mean they played the game intensively multiplayer, tournaments and such? Then I bet their opinions will be similar. We have the proof with MP tournaments, bot ToH and WTL reached a point where the majority of players agreed with a rules setup and stopped bickering about how unfair this or that is.

Does it mean each of them made 5-10 professional maps for one of HoMM? Then I bet their opinions also will be similar.

Does it mean each of them spent a bunch of time to create theories (probably respectable) about how HoMM should be but without any material argument, like we see hundreds of people around?

Then I bet their opinions will differ. Because when no solid ground supports an idea, the idea itself is volatile. You have to prove it can work in order to convince others.

I think the pattern about how a game should be is quite simple for people who dig it until they reach the deepest mechanics, know by heart the editor, the real issues in players vs player and so, from first hand experience. They understand that playability, simplicity and flexibility is what ensures game survival and make its success. Then there are others, who talk a lot but play very little.

And then you find as many opinions as are the people talking about. Their opinions are respectable, why not. But I doubt any is practical, HoMM games are way too complex to share their secrets to a theoretical approach only. Then Marzhin is a designer, not a player. The whole team played very little the games, otherwise they wouldn't go for such complicated and worthless skill wheels, bland town screens and slow battle mechanics. Also, if he is proud to not like H3, he shouldn't be on the team, that's so simple as that. When you don't like Beethoven 9th Symphony, you don't try to create the tenth because it is obvious you don't understand anything about Beethoven.

mr.hackcrag
Archangel
Archangel
Posts: 1441
Joined: 05 Jul 2006

Postby mr.hackcrag » May 24 2015, 18:34

:tsup:

Everything written there is very profound.

It seems it's not uncommon for developers to not play their games for one reason or another. I've been a tester for a game and it was interesting to see that developers would listen to our balance suggestions and they didn't even know how to play their game at an advanced/meta level. They hardly had the basics down and that was also apparent while watching that H7 twitch video up there.

User avatar
Groovy
Golem
Golem
Posts: 619
Joined: 03 Sep 2011

Postby Groovy » May 24 2015, 20:38

mr.hackcrag wrote:I just discovered this article about the subject. I found the comments more insightful than the article though.

http://www.pcgamesn.com/heroes-of-might ... ative-fans


If this is how they felt after Heroes 6:

“We want to do a good game but don’t have a vision for how Heroes should be.”

Why are they making Heroes 7?

User avatar
hellegennes
D'oh
D'oh
Posts: 842
Joined: 04 May 2009

Marzhin and Penin Twitching in May

Postby hellegennes » May 24 2015, 22:34

I am a die-hard fan; I have been since 1995. My opinion is hugely different though. I also like H3 less than the other games of the series. I have explained the reasons numerous times. And in my own opinion, the comparison to Beethoven's 9th is wrong. Many old fans see H3 as the greatest of the series, but that is mostly because most of the old fans were introduced to the series with H3. It's like liking the 9th symphony best because you hardly ever hear the other 8. Not to mention that I personally find the Ode to Joy one of the most dull, lame, monotonous, lazy and unimaginative pieces Beethoven has ever written.

User avatar
Galaad
Vampire
Vampire
Posts: 911
Joined: 06 Mar 2015

Postby Galaad » May 24 2015, 22:52

@Salamandre

I think your post hits nail on the head. I would add legacy problems (lore) and immersion (visuals).

@Kalah

twitch video by Penin & Marzhin

maretti random map day one video

Sure, make up your own opinion.

Same goes for all features of previous HOMM games, but I don’t feel the need to backup what has been considered to be good in homm2 or homm4 in this forum.
As for homm3 and homm5, the amount of mods and custom maps and scenarios speaks volume.

User avatar
Salamandre
Genie
Genie
Posts: 1032
Joined: 13 May 2006
Location: France
Contact:

Re: Marzhin and Penin Twitching in May

Postby Salamandre » May 25 2015, 8:59

hellegennes wrote:. And in my own opinion, the comparison to Beethoven's 9th is wrong. [...etc]


I don't say 9th symphony is the best, I don't say Heroes 3 is the best (however I think H3 is but this is personal stance).

I say that 9th symphony has everything in that makes Beethoven unique and great. If one likes Beethoven, he can't ignore 9th symphony, which is like an index to all techniques and ideas making that composer having his place in the history. Of course comparison is dull, Heroes is nothing but a video game and Beethoven is a genius, but also Marzhin comment about not liking H3 (while he is not even able to design a game half as good) was dull, hence my comparison.

Look, I am not crazy and I understand a designer can't be at same time a long time player, because both take lots of time and is not humanly possible. But also I know that Heroes series had some tournaments over a decade, there are guys being champions, guys knowing the games (H2-H3-H4-H5) so it would be natural for Ubi to hire them as consultants, for testing and game play advices. Yet they think there is no reason to do such, then show us a video where designers admit having no idea what's inside their game (retaliation from back or no) then playing at the level of a 5yo kid.


Return to “News”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Majestic-12 [Bot] and 8 guests