What Comes Next?

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Xdarkon
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What Comes Next?

Postby Xdarkon » Jul 12 2014, 20:19

I just hope that in the next Heroes game if we get one they will try to please some older fans rather then bringing new ones in

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Fuddelbaerentatze
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Postby Fuddelbaerentatze » Jul 15 2014, 7:54

H7 or MM11 - i am rather indifferent although i might be stupid enough to buy it despite Ubisofts track of underwhelming commitment to produce a really great game and then blaming the studios (nival, black hole, limbic) for the outcome.

What I really would like to see is a kickstarter project by VC to create a spiritual successor to H3/H4

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Postby Panda Tar » Jul 15 2014, 13:28

Well, hoping that a MM XI could come following a free-world exploration game (I enjoyed the MM X play-style, but not as much as MM VII). I also don't know what to expect regarding features, such as storyline.

On Heroes hand, if they make a HoMM VII, I hope the game gets a bit more complex as it were, playable, fun, dunno, less VI-ish?
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What Comes Next?

Postby Wizard of Soz » Jul 15 2014, 15:53

Heroes online I think ties (story wise) into the ending of shades of darkness so I think that's where their next energies are spent.

After that, lore wise, I think its going to go forward in time rather than back again. If we keep going back certain factions like the Orcs and Necromancers wont exist. I don't know if they are ready yet to go past the events of dark messiah and change the status quo dramatically yet but I could be wrong.

If I had to guess, one more Heroes game before or during the Events of Dark messiah, and then we will start seeing games past that date. Lots of spin off games as well. Probably the third eclipse will be in a game involving Dragon Knights.

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Postby cjlee » Jul 18 2014, 19:08

I wish they would license the franchise to some kickstarter guy who crowdsources a team. Let the real enthusiasts develop the game and take the risks. Ubicrap can just collect 10% or whatever of sales proceeds. That's better than doing a terrible job. They have already proven their incompetence.

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Postby JSE » Jul 18 2014, 22:26

I agree, cjlee. Ubisoft managed to lower the overall quality level of the M&M franchise so much that probably any halfway decent indie or amateur game would be a better and worthier candidate.

So, yes, I love the idea of a crowdfunded M&M game! I don't even care if it's an M&M RPG or a Heroes game. I would certainly support it -- under one condition, though: if it's set in the original universe.

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Postby Wizard of Soz » Jul 19 2014, 10:43

Yeah, its ashamed we never got to see where the story from H4 was headed and find out more about the ancients, Kreegans etc. I actually read through H4 campaign dialog a few weeks ago and it was great.

However it has been hinted, or stated, in recent games and interviews that it's all one universe and Axeoth and Ashan are just at opposite ends of the void, so there is maybe a chance (a small one I think) of either a crossover or somehow tie the two together (maybe a kreegan invasion of Ashan, or perhaps like MM7 tied to MM3, I don't know).

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Postby mns3dhm » Jul 20 2014, 17:56

My guess is there is no what comes next at this juncture. Ubi has failed to produce a commercial or financial success with either franchise. The best you can hope for is they sell the rights to someone who can do better.

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vicheron
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Postby vicheron » Jul 20 2014, 22:38

I don't think Ubisoft really cares about the franchise. It's not a huge AAA series that sells millions of copies. It's a pretty niche game with a small but dedicated fanbase. They've tried to make it bigger but they've failed. So they'll probably do something really small. They might remaster some of the older games, port them to tablets. And I wouldn't be surprised if they go the casual game route.

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hellegennes
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Postby hellegennes » Jul 21 2014, 0:39

Most games don't sell millions of copies. During the golden age of adventures, anything reaching six figures was considered a huge success. I know that times have changed and the cost of making a game is higher now, but so is the market potential.

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Postby Qwy » Jul 21 2014, 12:14

I think it will be H7.
New vacancy in Limbic Entertainment - (Senior) Level Designer http://www.limbic-entertainment.de/en/j ... l-designer

Requirements
...
Extensive experience in designing levels for strategy games (TBS, RTS)
...

Likely H7 will be on the Unreal Engine 3.
I hope it will be presented on Gamescom.
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http://www.might-and-magic.ru/topic/91-heroes-7-novosti-sluhi-dogadki/
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Edited on Mon, Jul 21 2014, 08:34 by Qwy

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JSE
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Postby JSE » Jul 22 2014, 0:28

Great finds! I'm especially intrigued by the video of the Paul Romero/Rob King recording session.

Heroes 7 is definitely the most likely M&M game to come out next -- for the obvious but important reason that today, the Heroes series is much more popular than the M&M RPGs. Also, the low-end production values of M&M X -- including recycled background music (!) -- very clearly illustrate Ubisoft's general attitude towards M&M.

No matter what game bearing the name "Might & Magic" will be released next, though -- as fans of Heroes and M&M, it's important that we always remember the reasons why we became fans in the first place: excellent turn-based strategy and role-playing games set in exciting fantasy worlds. We should never expect less. Considering how Heroes 5 and 6 turned out and also considering the questionable online spin-offs Ubisoft have released under the M&M brand, we have every reason to be extremely cautious about the future of the franchise.

I don't know about you guys, but I, for one, will not be excited about Heroes 7 or any other upcoming release until I've seen evidence of vast improvements in terms of gameplay and art style.

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Postby Sunlover » Jul 23 2014, 16:22

Prrrrrrrrrrrobably Heroes VII. I know not too many here have stated their preference, but my least favorite chapters of this to date have been 4 and 6 (I never played the original, #1 :D ). It's silly (if somewhat unique) to have an entire storyline based around all the children of a single family. [I did enjoy the Sandro add-on Danse Macabre and recently picked up the Crag Hack one on Steam's Summer Sale].

Of course there is the eternal cry of "wow I wish they'd remake Heroes 3 with 2014 graphics and gameplay and music", and if Ubisoft is only interested in dumping a "moderate" effort into the next chapter, they could probably develop this with the same stories 3 had and make smaller but "loyalist" sales.

As far as the odd gripes about Internet broadband availability in 2014 (and a link offered to an old article from 2012), a good site to refer to with updated info is: http://www.broadbandmap.gov/blog/ -- the following is an excerpt from June 30 2013 data - over a year old now:

"98 percent of Americans have access to broadband at combined speeds of 6 Mbps downstream and 1.5 Mbps upstream – a slight boost from the December 2012 figure of 96 percent.
83 percent of the population has access to broadband speeds of at least 25 Mbps – a big jump from the 50 percent of the population who had access to broadband at this speed when we began collecting data in June 2010."

I'm only speaking for the US here; but the mid-range for US broadband has increased dramatically in the last 4 years.

Shurikas: "make the storry of heroes 7 set in far of future where magic and technology coexist" --> you, my friend, are basically staring at the world of "Shadowrun Returns"; which is set in the 2030-2060ish time frame. You can explore more on Wikipedia or by looking up "Shadowrun".

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Postby Kalah » Jul 23 2014, 19:02

I was reading this "Wired" article from 2013 which brings up some interesting points: access does not mean you can afford it, and having DSL does not mean you have a fast connection. This study showed that 30% of Americans didn't have broadband access in their home. 3G and 4G is no real substitute, certainly not for gaming.
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hellegennes
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What Comes Next?

Postby hellegennes » Jul 26 2014, 23:37

@romanov77:

Whatever you believe about the Ubisoft MM plots, this sounds unfair and insulting to the people who worked to create the world of Ashan.

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Postby JSE » Jul 26 2014, 23:59

What was unfair or even insulting about this little joke? Romanov was simply using humor to express a sentiment that many M&M fans share (me including): An enormous disappointment with the world of Ashan, its conepts, its characters, its overall design. Considering that we had something as fantastic as the world of Enroth in the past, cynicism seems like a very appropriate reaction to what we have now...

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Postby Kalah » Jul 27 2014, 9:31

Well, considering the amount of work the designers have put into the new universe, it could be conceived as insulting to call it bad on the single merit that it isn't the same as the old. Frankly, this argument is getting a bit old, and the fans who criticize Ashan tend to focus on the fact that it isn't Enroth rather than actually saying what it is about the new universe that isn't any good. You could start there, perhaps?

I am one of those who don't really care one way or the other, since I arrived into the series late and hadn't formed an emotional attachment to the old universe, but the argument made by Ubisoft when moving to Ashan was a good one: They would never get it right anyway. The old team had moved on and the amount of work required to learn the old canon would be prohibitively expensive and time-consuming ... and they would probably get something wrong anyway, thus provoking the die-hard fans. They'd be damned if the did and damned if they didn't, and so decided to go for the solution giving them the fewest problems. They have a point: if I took over a franchise like this, I might think the same way and want to put my mark on it rather than trying desperately to keep making the same thing.
In War: Resolution, In Defeat: Defiance, In Victory: Magnanimity, In Peace: Goodwill.

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Postby JSE » Jul 27 2014, 15:38

---Well, considering the amount of work the designers have put into the new universe, it could be conceived as insulting to call it bad on the single merit that it isn't the same as the old.---

The fact that Ashan isn't Enroth has *nothing* to do with my critcism of it. I've been playing games set in many different fantasy worlds and I do like many of these worlds. My dislike of Ashan is based purely on how badly it is designed -- in my opinion -- and not on nostalgic feelings or the like. The reason I mentioned Enroth in this discussion was to compare the overall quality levels of what we once had to what we have now.


---Frankly, this argument is getting a bit old, and the fans who criticize Ashan tend to focus on the fact that it isn't Enroth rather than actually saying what it is about the new universe that isn't any good. You could start there, perhaps?---

What is really getting old -- in my opinion -- is the "nostalgia argument". There is such a thing as bad game design and bad world design. That is a fact that should be accepted. It's rarely the stubbornness of fans that plunges a game series into a crisis -- but far more often the lack of honest dedication on the developer's/publisher's side.

As for the specific reasons I don't like Ashan, here is a quick list -- I would be more than happy to explain or discuss any of them in detail: a far too simplistic and artificial faction-based concept for the world's realms, the obtrusive use of faction symbols in nearly every situation, the fact that basically all actual dragons are gods and vice versa, most of the place names sound like pathetic attempts at trying to mimic typical Anglo-American fantasy names (examples: Ranaar, Thallan, Heresh, Ygg-Chall -- come on), many of the world's main concepts borrow in a painfully obvious and unoriginal way from the world of Enroth (take the "Holy Griffin Empire" which is basically a rip-off of the Kingdom of Erathia with its Queen Isabel being a carbon copy of Queen Catherine and its former king Nicolai bearing the exact same name as Enroth's prince to the throne and Catherine's son), the fact that several popular characters from the world of Enroth and other worlds of the original universe have been reintroduced as inhabitants of Ashan with completely overhauled background stories (artistically shameful and an outrage for long-time fans).


---I am one of those who don't really care one way or the other, since I arrived into the series late and hadn't formed an emotional attachment to the old universe, [...]---

And again: My opinion about Ashan per se has nothing to do with any emotional attachment.


---[...] but the argument made by Ubisoft when moving to Ashan was a good one: They would never get it right anyway. The old team had moved on and the amount of work required to learn the old canon would be prohibitively expensive and time-consuming ... and they would probably get something wrong anyway, thus provoking the die-hard fans. They'd be damned if the did and damned if they didn't, and so decided to go for the solution giving them the fewest problems. They have a point: if I took over a franchise like this, I might think the same way and want to put my mark on it rather than trying desperately to keep making the same thing.---

Strangely enough, other companies can create worthy sequels in established game universes and even please long-time fans (my favourite example here is Fallout 3 -- which was not created by the original developers of Fallout). Apart from that -- how hard would it have been to simply create a new world *within* the original universe? The meta concept was loose enough to allow for just about any kind of fantastic world. They could have just hinted at the existence of the ancients and would have stayed 100 % true to canon while still keeping up ties to the other M&M worlds. Actually, I find it much more likely that Ubisoft really *wanted* to start from scratch. They wanted a differnt style of fantasy and were convinced that they can do it much better. Some of the things Erwan Le Breton (the "Might and Magic world manager") said in interviews seem to support this theory -- I'm quoting:

"Question: Why did Ubisoft decide to revamp the M&M universe?

Erwan Le Breton: There are several reasons for this.

1.) The world used as a background for the Might & Magic games has often changed from one title to the next (Varn, Cron, Terra, Xeen and then Axeoth with Enroth, Erathia, Jadame, Cheh'dian, etc.) As a result the consistency between all the M&M games was a little weak and the overall background was vague, if not flat-out confusing at times. We want to have a single, deep world that’s consistent across the board and has layers of story and content that players can just dive into.

2.) There was just so much information in the world that it was difficult for new players to really embrace everything that was there. The mass of backstory and continuity was almost intimidating, and we wanted to create a world that new players could enjoy as well.

3.) As much as we enjoyed the original M&M worlds, they had a certain science fiction undertone, while we really wanted to focus on the fantasy aspects – the 'might' and 'magic', as it were. Those games were also “lighter” in tone than what we had in mind for the new generation of M&M games."

The full interview can be found here: http://www.the-genies-lamp.com/heroes_5 ... 20DIARY%20#1
Edited on Sun, Jul 27 2014, 12:00 by JSE

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hellegennes
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What Comes Next?

Postby hellegennes » Jul 27 2014, 19:56

So you don't like the new world because it's so different than the old one and at the same time you don't like it because it sounds like the old one (the thing about the Griffin Empire). How is that consistent?

You don't like the place names. Is this a serious argument? Do toponyms bother you so much? The old universe had plenty of these types of place names, anyway. Enroth, Erathia, Antagarich...

Look, you may not like the new universe, but saying it's bad or lazy is another thing. Some things are a matter of taste. Ashan is sufficiently deep, has a well-established lore, a considerable amount of work has been done on it and it feels unique. And I am saying that despite preferring the old universe.

On the other hand, your main argument against it is that it's not connected to the old universe. Putting a reference to the ancients has absolutely zero effect on anything. Why would it matter? Would it change the setting and the plots? Would it change the lore? How different was MM9 which had no connection to the rest of the series? Just because of a reference in the intro everything changes? I really don't understand the argument. Not that it matters, because the reference is there. It's the same universe, just another planet. It's all there in Sandro's DLC and in MMXL. Now that you know it, did anything change?

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Postby JSE » Jul 28 2014, 3:18

Where do you read that I want Ashan to be like Enroth? Copying a fantasy world can never result in anything good -- especially not when it's copied in such an unoriginal and obvious way. For Ashan to be a good world it would have to be good on its own merits -- which in my opinion is not the case.

Regarding the place names: Of course the quality of names does matter -- it matters a great deal! And yes, all your examples sound far better to my ear than Ashan, Thallan or Ygg-Chall. Those actually sound like the writers set themselves a one-minute deadline for each name.

As for keeping a connection to the original worlds: When Ubisoft took over Might & Magic, they clearly expressed that they had decided to start from scratch and without any connection to the original universe and metaplot. For a lot of fans, that was very frustrating and disheartening. Apparently though, the time for backpedalling has now started.

How does this make me feel? Well, let's see... First my favourite game universe is declared dead. It's then replaced with a completely new world that isn't interesting or exciting to me in the least -- even though I have given it plenty of chances. As if this wasn't bad enough already, even the legacy of the once great Might & Magic is suddenly being taken apart as many iconic characters are reintroduced with completely new background and origin stories. And now you say that they have actually decided to make it all one after all... I feel cheated! The little credibility that might have still been there is definitely gone now.
Edited on Sun, Jul 27 2014, 23:21 by JSE


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