New H4 Maps

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Karmakeld
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New H4 Maps

Unread postby Karmakeld » 24 Feb 2013, 21:43

@Taro: Well I can only agree, that looking at a map in advance spoils the fun. Too long? Oh boy, you don't wanna play my 4th map then ;-) I checked the text, and found no mention of nature being able to resurrect. Not even the word resurrect was found, so.. dunno..



@Maciek: The quest was actually suggested by tester IIRC, but I can see your point. But I think reducing the cost too much, will leave the player with enough resources too still complete the task, where adding more dwarves will make fights too easy. But I'll prob. look into it. For some reason, I added the possibilty to put the golems to work only in the sawmills and ore pits, and not the gold/gem mine. I might fix that as well.



If you reach Master Scouting you should get this message: A small group of ghosts appeared before Bakrus. They came with a warning. If Bakrus didn't immediately stop improving his Scouting skill, they would be forced to kill him or terminate his `contract´. (This goes for the Scouting skill ONLY and NOT Pathfinding and Stealth. If Bakrus get GM Scouting the agreement is cancelled and the game ends.)



Funny thing you say BD's are easier in one stack vs. two stacks. I've tested the apprentice in both WoW and Equilibris, and when you get ambushed by the 30 bandits, in WoW you stand no chance when they're in one stack.
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Karmakeld
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New H4 Maps

Unread postby Karmakeld » 02 Mar 2013, 12:12

@Maciek: Concerning the Dwarv quest in the Apprentice, I'm concidering some changes due to your feedback. Maybe I'll change the quest hut, for more obvious quest hut looks.



".. I think the quest is useless. They could maybe produce Golems from gold, or mine some gold or gems. Or mine Gold Golems if put in gold mine. ..forgot to build City Hall and later on put Golems into Gold and Gem mines where they didn't produce anything."



I see your point. I'd like to discuss some ideas to perfects the map, and I guess I could change the quest, so that sug. 1) dwarves could produce X Gold Golems for X gold. Thinking of maybe 250-300 gold each (normal cost 240). But at the same time it should still put the player in a position where the extra cost might prevent the chance of getting enough resources to complete the map, otherwise I think it needless. E.G. say 2.000 gold for 8 golems, could be enough gold to make it hard to make it, but 8 golems would be a strong army against the neutrals. (I also like the fact that both the dwarves or Golems will slow your hero's movement on the map).

2) I think that if either the dwarves or the golems should be able to mine Gold or Gems, then it should be a lower amount than what the mine generates daily. Perhaps 250 gold extra a day and 1 extra gem each 2nd day, considering that trading gems for gold gives twice as much as wood and ore. (the 4000 gold is earned in 16 days if given 250 a day).

3) There's a fun idea in allowing the dwarves to mine Gold Golems, which might later be put to work or used as an army. You're given 3 golems on day 32. I guess they could produce say 3 golems a week. There's a total of 6 mines, so no point in producing tons of golems. 4000 gold for 3 golems a week, each worth 240 gold, will give a pay back period of 5,5 week. Leaving 2,5 week to profit and collect. I think it would spoil the challenge if the player is able to produce to many resources and end up with +70.000 and 70 gems, and I also think it would be interesting if the player had to do a little math to consider if the quest is worth the cost (again time is also an important factor). But please comment..
Edited on Sat, Mar 02 2013, 07:16 by Karmakeld
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Karmakeld
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New H4 Maps

Unread postby Karmakeld » 02 Mar 2013, 12:20

Concerning Don't Pee.. How fast did you complete the poisoning? I'm thinking if 10 days are still to much time. I've manged to complete it withing a week. If you poison the first well one day 1 of the week, then is possible to reach the last point on day 7. So I'm thinking of a reduction to 8 days. Again to force the player to find the right solution.
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Maciek
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New H4 Maps

Unread postby Maciek » 02 Mar 2013, 14:31

Don't Pee... 9 days, I think. But I didn't do any movement optimization, i.e. did't use portals, didn't run to towns, just visited the wells clockwise, starting in the top right corner. Bakrus had GM Pathfinding and one pair of Gloves(from some enemy hero; I didn't burn down the tavern, so didn't have the other pair). Add to that Stable bonus and Endurance spell. I think it would make sense to reduce the time to 7-8 days on Champion and let it be 10 or so on Novice. On the other difficulties it could be something inbetween. Also, having hundreds thousands of gold and doing that quest for 30k looked a bit silly, but that's partly because I had so many Monks that I could capture towns. I didn't get the message when reaching M Scouting, because you deleted the whole script when Bakrus reached Expert. To my knowledge, 'delete script' deletes the whole named script, not only one white box.



Dwarves - on secon thoughts, single Dwarves can be used to steal retaliations and distract enemies in battle, which saves Immortality Potions or buys time to cast Phantoms. They could also be used to chain potions from Blacksmith, which could potentially save 3000 gold + resources on Potion Shop in town. So now I think the Dwarves can be worth their price, even though it's almost 6 times their regular price and neutral stacks are so much larger than them.

Perhaps the Dwarves could need some potions instead of gold to produce Golems when stationed in Gold Mine. Perhaps a Vial of Acid to melt the metal and a Potion of Endurance to make the Golem walk? It could take all dwarves 1-3 days (would take more time if less Dwarves in mine) to produce a Golem from potions and gold they would mine themselves in the mine. Oh, and maybe let them ask Mudgeon if he wants them to produce a Dragon Golem for some ridiculus price, like ~20k worth of gold and/or resources. If the Dragon Golem carried over, it could be a good reward for makeing good economic choices. Not sure if that would make sense in next map with Mudgeon, though.

Mining gold/gems: Extra 250 gold/day from Gold Mine and 1 gem/2 days from Gem Mine sounds good to me.

Dwarves quest hut detection: I think a simple sign next to it would be enough.



1 stack vs more stacks: Black Dragons in Druid Slayer were easier in 1 stack, because half of that stack would be more than enough to kill a level 5 Barbarian in 1 hit.

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Karmakeld
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New H4 Maps

Unread postby Karmakeld » 02 Mar 2013, 16:36

Had been thinking about setting it to difficulty level, so I'll prob. do that. Hmm. It's set to Skill mastery 3, which should be Master, and will remove AFTER being shown, but I'll check it again. (I've tested it several times, without problems, so it sound strange).



Well def. a fun idea about the Dragon Golem, but really the next map is about him being send out on his own to finish his time as an apprentice. The 20K sound fair, but again I doubt it's possible to gather +80K to both win and carry it over (hopefully it shouldn't).

I'll add the idea with the dwarves being able to produce Golems, and keep the price of 4.000 then. So you suggest 1 of each potion along with the dwarves in the gold mine to produce 1 golem? And no limits to how many golems they may produce over time, as long as new potions are brought to them..

BTW. Your feedback is GOLD to me.. thanks so much..
Edited on Sat, Mar 02 2013, 11:37 by Karmakeld
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Maciek
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New H4 Maps

Unread postby Maciek » 02 Mar 2013, 17:47

Golem limit suggestions: 1 Golem per 2 or 3 days, cost: dwarves need Vial of Acid on first day, Potion of Endurance on second day or nothing on first day, then Vial, then Potion. That is more or less what you said: about 4000 gold for 3 Golems per week. If you think cost is too low/high, you could change potions needed, add some gold/resource cost or give back some gold because dwarves mine it. Perhaps some limit to how many Golems the Dwarves can produce in total. They could get bored with makeing Golems and go away/rebel or they could say that they ran out of some crucial ingredient, or they could gradually die out because of wild beasts attacks or accidents. There are many possibilities. You know your world better than I do.

Clerical Library is enabled while Life Magic is banned. Perhaps enable Basic Life (Life Magic but not its subskills) if it doesn't contradict later story?



I don't know how much gold it is possible to gather. Forest Glenns and the like respawn after some time. Perhaps it is possible to loot them more than once if you really, really hurry?

So Dragon Golem doesn't fit next map... How about Dwarven Hammer and/or Dwarven Shield for 20k gold then? Backstory: something about becoming friends with Dwarves.



Scouting: I was talking about 'stealth_skill' continious script. I think it's deleted after setting 'stealth' variable to 2, but I may be wrong.

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Karmakeld
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New H4 Maps

Unread postby Karmakeld » 04 Mar 2013, 16:35

I think you're right about the stealth script. I had allready placed the rest of scripts in timed and under lose, so I must have forgotten to delete all but the text script. Corrected now, thx.



Clerical Library was enabled due to story (mentions that necromantic isn't accessable), but I wanted only Order and Combat to be availabe in the 1st map. Life is availabe in 2nd map, but I'll take it into account. Dwarven Shield could be made a possible carryover object for a cost.

Well, some good ideas to play around with. Obvious to kill some dwarves in an acid accident and lose some to wild beast. I'll inplement some of your ideas and credit you :-)

Oh, btw. Don't Pee can actutally be completed in 6 days. Champion time limit? ;-)
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Maciek
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New H4 Maps

Unread postby Maciek » 05 Mar 2013, 18:40

Thanks.

Time limit - Do you need both Gloves? If yes, won't player get stuck if he decides not to burn tavern? If not, then I think 6 days are okay.

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Unread postby Yurian Stonebow » 05 Mar 2013, 20:44

Duzeom and others: please see the Heroes I-IV forum for more information about my various Tolkien maps. I hope the additional info found there on my Tolkien thread clears things up a bit.

The H4 version isn't that bad Duzeom, just play the map and you'll see for yourself. As for your "punishment" for words of slander, you are sentenced to hard labour on the map testing departement of the Masters of Sighisoara 2 campaign, which is an upcoming project made for Heroes 3:SoD by the Sighisoara Team.

Please report to me for duty by email asap. olavi_valimaki (@) hotmail.com
With solidarity and friendship :)

Yurian
Don't worry if things are going badly today. They will be much worse tomorrow.

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Karmakeld
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New H4 Maps

Unread postby Karmakeld » 07 Mar 2013, 21:07

Maciek. Both gloves will be needed to complete the time on the highest diff. level., which is set to 7 days. (it can be done on 6). But burning down the Tavern will give you Fireproof Boots. (besides it's possible to burn it down later, every friday).

Yurian, thou are just and fair, I would have sentenced him to cut down the tallest tree on CH with.... a herring ;-) Great to see other campaigns are still being made..
Edited on Thu, Mar 07 2013, 16:08 by Karmakeld
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Maciek
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New H4 Maps

Unread postby Maciek » 08 Mar 2013, 21:32

Ah, ok, I didn't notice you could burn it down later because somehow didn't right-click the Tavern, :p. I mentioned Fireproof Boots because Old Lenny wants them.



By the way, somebody wants to test my latest map? XL, 8 players human/computer, h3roe.

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Karmakeld
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New H4 Maps

Unread postby Karmakeld » 12 Mar 2013, 10:33

Maciek. I'm just looking at the dwarve quest/gold mining. The Blacksmith is just out of reach, I guess that if I should consider your point about the dwarves being worth their price - using them as a chain delivery, I should make it accessable AND make sure you could buy Endurance and Acid in it. (Both are available in the alcymist shop). I guess that only making it possible for them to mine golems, is like limiting the players oppertunities to use them wisely..?
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Maciek
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New H4 Maps

Unread postby Maciek » 12 Mar 2013, 17:42

Karmakeld, Blacksmith is accesible, just not from every tile ;) (it can be accesed from (36,73)) And other Potions from Blacksmith can be useful in combat too. Besides, Dwarves can chain from town as well, which might save some time.



The other point about them maybe being worth their price was that you can break them into stacks of 1 and use them to take retals instead of buying more Immortality Potions. Or you could use single stacks to distract stronger enemies long enough for Mudgeon to cast some spells.



The point about full Dwarves' stack's combat value being insignificant compared to neutrals' strength doesn't apply to lower difficulties, I think. But I didn't play on lower difficulties, so I can't be sure about that.

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Karmakeld
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New H4 Maps

Unread postby Karmakeld » 15 Mar 2013, 10:57

Ah, I've just placed the cursor above the Blacksmith and concluded it couldn't be reached, which was originally intended, but I'll consider it a bonus for those who try hard, then ;-)



I think you're right in the last point. The battle against the bandits I tested in both std. and equi mode, and in std. they're unbeatable without immortality. Well atleast while Mudgeon is still a low level hero, so I guess the comparison is ok. Anywho, I thank you once more for the feedback. Below suggestion will feature the 1.1 update.



If you're up for some playing/testing of my other maps, pls let me know. I plan on uploading map 1-4 on skydrive as campaign maps, as soon as map 4 has been tested once more for bugs. But I'd like your opinon on my 8th map, as it features a bit complicated sneaking into town as bandits and free a hero part.
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Maciek
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New H4 Maps

Unread postby Maciek » 16 Mar 2013, 11:56

@Karmakeld: I responded with a PM.

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Karmakeld
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New H4 Maps

Unread postby Karmakeld » 25 Mar 2013, 15:28

text deleted
Edited on Mon, Mar 25 2013, 15:29 by Karmakeld
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