New H4 Maps

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Kalah
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New H4 Maps

Unread postby Kalah » 16 Feb 2013, 23:13

<img src="/images/minimaps/TolkiensWaroftheRing.jpg" align=right vspace=5 hspace=5>We've gotten several new maps in recently - all for <i>Heroes IV</i> - for your playing pleasure. It is a true testament to the quality of the game's editor that players are still making maps for this thing. <img src="/forums/images/smiles/big%20smile.gif">

<ul><li><a href="/https://www.celestialheavens.com/search ... >Tolkien's War of the Ring</a> is <b>Yurian Stonebow</b>'s latest creation, taking the map he has made for <i><a href="/https://www.celestialheavens.com/search ... ch">Heroes III</a></i> and kicking it up a notch - to H4. One of our more prolific mapmakers, this is the <i>22nd</i> map Yurian has contributed to Celestial Heavens.

<li><a href="/https://www.celestialheavens.com/search ... earch">The Apprentice</a> is <i>not</i> an hommage to Donald Trump's comb-over, but <b>Karmakeld</b>'s latest creation. Small and quick (the map, not the maker), made for Equilibris, sounds like a hoot.

<li>Karmakeld also made <a href="/https://www.celestialheavens.com/search ... h">another map</a>; medium-sized, also made for Equi, I'm not telling you its name - just please obey its command.</ul>



Have fun, gamers! <img src="/images/smiles/smile9.gif">

If you would like to take a look at the original page visit this link:
https://www.celestialheavens.com/1361056411
In War: Resolution, In Defeat: Defiance, In Victory: Magnanimity, In Peace: Goodwill.

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New H4 Maps

Unread postby Duzeom_ » 17 Feb 2013, 10:59

One of the more profilic mapmaker made a terrible map, so it is better for him to stick with H3 maps. The two other maps are very good especially I prefer "Don't pee in the water" with unique victory condition and charismatic main hero.

The H4 mapeditor is probably the best editor in Heroes series, because it gives great possibilities of making maps and interesting campaigns. It's a pitty that the game itself isn't very popular.

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Kalah
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New H4 Maps

Unread postby Kalah » 17 Feb 2013, 11:40

What makes it so terrible? Would you care to elaborate?



I must admit I never really played Equi much, but from what I hear, it does a decent job of balancing the expansions.
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Dalai
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Re: New H4 Maps

Unread postby Dalai » 17 Feb 2013, 14:51

Kalah wrote:another map
Please check the link, seems broken.
Edit: remove backslash in "Don\'t" and it will work.
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New H4 Maps

Unread postby Kalah » 17 Feb 2013, 15:04

Done. Thanks.
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Taro
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New H4 Maps

Unread postby Taro » 17 Feb 2013, 16:39

Don't Pee in the Water - south of the map is the same like first scenario of Price of Peace campaign. What the hell is that? Mapmaker changed custom scenario instead making his/her own? Lame.

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New H4 Maps

Unread postby cjlee » 18 Feb 2013, 04:29

This shows how important a map editor is. It draws in creative people who do their best, and it keeps gamers interested in this game.



I would pay $0 for Heroes VI. I would pay $80 for a modern, updated, improved and non-buggy Heroes IV that I could play for the next 10 years. I suspect Jeff would do the same.



As I have said often, does anyone believe Heroes VI can outlive even Heroes IV?



Jeff, are you reading this?

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New H4 Maps

Unread postby Karmakeld » 18 Feb 2013, 17:33

Taro, I must admit I'm not a skilled mapmaker and might be considered LAME (as you're right), but I might point out, that it was never my intention to release any of the maps, as they were merely intented as a campaign for my girlfriend with our own story. But having spend quite alot of time on this project, I decided to translate it to English and release them for others to enjoy. Having worked on the campaign since sep. '09 I've tried to cut some corners to speed up the process. Future maps will be selfmade, but regretably the first many aren't. You may call it lack of skill if you wish. But hopefully player can look beyond this, and still enjoy the story/stories
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Taro
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New H4 Maps

Unread postby Taro » 18 Feb 2013, 18:36

Ok, Karmakeld, I understand. But I think it's better to spend some time and make worse map than change another. Try to improve your skill on your own ;)

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New H4 Maps

Unread postby Yurian Stonebow » 18 Feb 2013, 19:57

@ Duzeom_



So... My Tolkien/Heroes IV crossover project "is terrible" because You Sir say it is without bothering to explain why? It is true that the map in question is my first Heroes IV map, and therefore I am not that experienced at scripting things using the HIV map editor, but still... Telling me to stick with Heroes III map making is like telling people to quit studying after graduating from Junior High because that was "their thing" and advanced studies will get them nowhere. What I ask of you, Dear Sir, is to please provide me with a list of things where you think I failed in "Tolkien's War of the Ring (H4)" and then give me solid advise how to improve my work so that I could avoid future disasters at the Heroes IV map making front.



With solidarity,



Yurian Stonebow

Great Heroes III map maker

Terrible Heroes IV wannabe map-maker
Don't worry if things are going badly today. They will be much worse tomorrow.

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Unread postby Kalah » 18 Feb 2013, 20:26

Best. Post. Ever. :)
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New H4 Maps

Unread postby Karmakeld » 18 Feb 2013, 21:30

Taro rest asure, I will. :-) Currently working on map 9, from the bottom..
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Re: New H4 Maps

Unread postby Duzeom_ » 18 Feb 2013, 22:37

Yurian Stonebow wrote:@ Duzeom_

So... My Tolkien/Heroes IV crossover project "is terrible" because You Sir say it is without bothering to explain why? It is true that the map in question is my first Heroes IV map, and therefore I am not that experienced at scripting things using the HIV map editor, but still... Telling me to stick with Heroes III map making is like telling people to quit studying after graduating from Junior High because that was "their thing" and advanced studies will get them nowhere. What I ask of you, Dear Sir, is to please provide me with a list of things where you think I failed in "Tolkien's War of the Ring (H4)" and then give me solid advise how to improve my work so that I could avoid future disasters at the Heroes IV map making front.

With solidarity,

Yurian Stonebow
Great Heroes III map maker
Terrible Heroes IV wannabe map-maker
Dear Yurian

I admit my post was little too harsh and that was due my conviction that some maps are promoted and rated as very good just for that they are made by special person, where in reality they are not so good or I can say plain. Maybe I harmed you with my words which for it I apologise, and I don't want a debate about if you should make maps in H4 or H3, because it was just unfortunate manner of speach. If it is your first map in H4 then I must say it isn't SO bad after all, but still I don't like it and my opinion is just subjective. I just felt that I had to criticize your map in order to people stop thinking it is so good and splendid, because it was made by someone with 22 maps in his account. That way promoting is just confusing and I think unfair. I feel that maps should be perceived only by it's workmanship not the status of a mapmaker here in forum. Moreover I think there is need to more promote new mapmakers which makes beautiful maps, and are uknown to others. I didn't write my comment longer because of whirls in my real life, so I was waiting for time to come to explaining my comment which I am currently doing.
After such long begining, I don't have lots to say. I admit that maybe your map isn't terrible, but has a main drawback which resents me from playing it. The chaotic landscape and too much of everything is the most frequent mistake of beginners mapmakers. Maybe someone likes it, I don't. I think the landspace is like someone randomly put things together in a hurry. In that way you don't make good maps. Second thing, I prefer maps which have some creative value. Making another map from one idea is just cutting the coupons from it. I have a one interesting fact for all - please write Yurian in a search machine, you will find 4 your maps about the Tolkien's Middle Earth which are slightly different (I don't know the differences I downloaded only one of them). So if you write 22 maps maybe you will count these 4 as one? It is again a huge misunderstanding.
Please don't treat it as personal vendetta or something. I very liked your Dark Continent map, and H3 Tolkien's Middle Earth. They are great and you are very skillful mapmaker. But I don't stand where someone is just banding the facts.
For further comments I insist to write me PM. I am planning to make a H4 mapmaker guide, after I finish my current campaign, so I think then all the riddles will be solved.
And Again I apologise for maybe too harsh words. I don't want to be quarelling with anybody or making accusations without comments. I have really tough time in my life, I know it's a low excuse but I say how it is and every reason of my appall. I know the hard fortune of mapmakers which makes their creations with no profit spending sometimes hundreds of hours. I am ashamed that I accused you so hard, we mapmakers should stay together, but I can't put aside my strange belief that some of the mapmakers are higher than others and sometimes they use it not so fairly as I think they should.

Duzeom

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Taro
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New H4 Maps

Unread postby Taro » 21 Feb 2013, 11:22

I played The Apprentice. Well, fine story and very interesting gameplay. I was playing on Advanced, and failed because i had not enough money (3000 gold). I'll try later again.

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New H4 Maps

Unread postby Maciek » 21 Feb 2013, 18:38

I also played The Apprentice (on Champion) and got the required gold on the last possible day, after trading extra resources. Fought everything except Harpies, because I would've needed too many potions to beat them. I liked the map.



Don't Pee In The Water - Monk growth control script somehow didn't work, which resulted in them dominating the map after joining. I think it spoiled a bit otherwise a well made sneaking map.



Challenge for Haters - On higher difficulty levels, especially on Champion, AI players are afraid of neutrals and are not exactly aggresive. How about makeing neutral stacks not depend on difficulty, like you did in Druid Slayer, Taro?



Druid Slayer - It can be completed in one week if you know the map, know what you're doing and you're a little lucky. Those two maps are also nice.

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New H4 Maps

Unread postby Taro » 21 Feb 2013, 19:07

Maciek - thanks for good words. From my testing I know in Challenge for Haters (on champion) computer players are less aggresive, but still they are dangerous. On Advanced computer will attack in week 3, on champion in week 5-6. In the meantime you have a little chance to conquer mines and you have no gold at all. I know that week 5-6 is a little late for some people, but comparing to standard maps it's very early for computer attacks.

I know I could give neutral stacks whitout linkage to difficulty. But this time I wanted to create something with standard rules (no mega scripting).



Druid Slayer - you did it in one week on CHAMPION? How?!



The Apprentice - I also played it on champion this time. I needed only 900 gold to win. Well, the next day I had 61.000, but i got a message about lose :(

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New H4 Maps

Unread postby Maciek » 21 Feb 2013, 22:45

What starting bonus did you pick in The Apprentice? I picked gold to be able to buy something from blacksmith on day 1. I think hero development is quite important here. The best idea seems to be either to go full meele (take nothing but Combat and Meele on lvl-ups), fight with potions and try not to go broke or go full magic and fight more efficiently with Slow/Magic Fist/bow and later also Phantom Image. I went for Master Meele first and then upgraded Order a bit, but the latter turned out not to be too helpful.



Challenge for Haters - Indeed, the computers still were dangerous and Miloszek's gift was quite usefull.



Druid Slayer - Yes, on Champion, but in WoW, not Equi. And with a bit of luck, i.e. I got the Halberd of Swiftwatch from Dragon Utopia. Moreover, potions found in Wagons were somewhat helpful.

Here's how it went:



Day 1. Single Centaurs and Bersekers gathered resources and Artifacts from the ground. Got a Cape of Knowledge from the Skeleton and a Steadfast Shield from Mage's Chest. Neither very helpful. Whenever I want to move some army or hero from one tile in front of town to another, I have them move into town's garrison, move a single Berserker or Centaur to the target tile and then move the army out. Traded some resources for gold to hire main hero(Vix, Barbarian) and all availible Berserkers and Centaurs. Crag Hack with most Centaurs fought Wolfs. I got him killed to chain him back to town. Not sure why. To flag mines, perhaps? One chest near Ore Pit contained a Bag of Gold, so Centaurs picked it, along with other resources and potions (Toughness and Endurance). Along with Berserkers and a Centaur Vix fought Sprites near Sawmill. What is that? A Tactics altar? Destroy! A Berserker then picked up potions (Restoration, Smoke, Binding). Split out the rest of Berserkers. Vix picked up two Chests (Advanced Combat, Advanced Meele) and with help of a Centaur and green potion reached Elves near Mercury Lab. She ran back to town. Both heroes stayed in town and some single Centaurs steyed near Dragon Utopia. End of turn.



Day 2. Given the chosen strategy (develop a Barbarian, use potions to fight), choice of bonus was obvious. Built an Arsenal and immediately bought a Greatsword, Leather Armour, 2 Potions of Endurance and 24(!) Potions of Immortality. Vix with an accopmanying Centaur picked up 4 more Chests (Master Meele). Crag Hack with all Berserkers and most Centaurs went north and stopped near Elves. There was still a single Centaur near Dragon Utopia.



Day 3. Vix approached Dragon Utopia, left her Centaur behind, drank a potion and walked into Utopia alone. Left it with 22 Potions of Immortality less, but 1 Halberd of Swiftwatch, 1 Dragon Scale Armor and some 18,5 thousand gold more. I guess she was not thirsty anymore. She also got Master Combat. With a fresh Centaur she ran back to town from White Tigers. Then drank a green potion, bought some more potions from town and killed Water Elementals. A Centaur took Campfire and hired Ogre Magi, that joined Crag Hack who captured Sawmill that turn and then moved back close to Elves. Bought movement potions and built Citadel.



Day 4. Built Harpies. Vix took 2 chests and fought Griffins (GM Combat). Crag Hack didn't move.



Day 5. Vix fought Earth Elementals, Elves and Pikemen with Crossbowmen (GM Meele). Got some potions. Ran out of movement next to Garrison. Crag Hack also moved next to garrison.



Day 6. Vix fought garrison (A Resistance), Whte Tigers near Elf dweeling, captured the dweeling and bought 2 Elves. Elves picked up resources, one went south-west, the other went north-east, but not far. Vix went west and picked up Combat altar (E Resistance). Then fought an enemy army that happened to be near town. They offered gold. I accepted. Split out 2 Ogre Mages from Crag Hack's army. They followed Vix while Crag Hack went east. Both heroes had movement potions.



Day 7. Crag Hack took eastern town (Wolf Lake). Vix attacked White Tigers and Wolves (got some gold and wood), then took western town (Skymirth) and got Master Resistance. Built Citadel in Skymirth, Rangers' Guild in Wolf Lake and Magic Dampener in first town. Bought some potions and chained them to Vix. Bought Priests in both towns (Celestial Armor and Bless) and had one of them pick up a Nature Altar (Summon Leprechaun). Bakrus ran from Wolf Lake to Skymirth. At that point, Vix had 14 types of potions and vials. Some usefull, others not. Vix, 2 Ogre Nagi and both Priests entered Skymirth's garrison and waited there. End of turn.



Night 7. Sankekur attacked from the wrong side of the wall. Walls, potions, GM Meele, Halberd, Ogres' and Priests' spells were enough to crush through Sankekur's armor.

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New H4 Maps

Unread postby Karmakeld » 24 Feb 2013, 13:40

@Taro: Your two attempts, put a smile on my face. Finally someone who didn't complete it in 1st attempt. So close and yet so far. There's a text hint about some Golems and the mines, that might be a little helpful. Good luck on the 3rd attempt. The story is a bit short I know, but it is meant as a part of a bigger story, but I felt it could stand alone.



@Maciek: I assume you got more than 10 monks then? I found the 'bug' and will correct it. Version 1.1. is sent to CH. Thanks for notifying me and plz let me know if you think that I should decrease them to less than 10 monks. You even beated the Forest Glenn on Champion? Yiikees!



The fact that time has been a stress factor you both and the ppl. testing it, they completed it on day 4 of week 3 of month 2 and

day6 of Week 4 of month 2 I take a good sign. My first map ever, and I believe it works better than I've hoped for. I take it none of you bought the dwarves?
Edited on Sun, Feb 24 2013, 09:12 by Karmakeld
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New H4 Maps

Unread postby Taro » 24 Feb 2013, 15:05

Karmakeld - well, maybe it's because of that I didn't watch a map in map editor. And i didn't say the story is short. For me it's too long :) But i read everything. And from what I remember, nature magic has no ability to ressurection anything (tex from campaign suggest it).



Maciek - i forgot about starting bonus :) Yes, with so many potions of immortality you can handle it. But how many dragons were you fighting in the utopia?

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New H4 Maps

Unread postby Maciek » 24 Feb 2013, 15:29

The Apprentice - I didn't even notice the dwarves until you told me about them. In WoW that object you could find them in was only a decoration and not a quest hut, so I didn't even think of checking it.

I checked the quest hut. Wait, 4000 gold for 25 Dwarves!? They don't produce any resources, do they? If not, I think the quest is useless. They could maybe produce Golems from gold, or mine some gold or gems. Or mine Gold Golems if put in gold mine.

I looked at my saves again and it turns out, Order spells (especially Slow) were actually very usefull in Forest Glenns. I also used some Immortality Potions. I also noticed that I made some mistakes: forgot to build City Hall and later on put Golems into Gold and Gem mines where they didn't produce anything.



Don't Pee In The Water - By the time I bumped into the Monks at the beggining of month 2, there were over 40 of them. The town produced over 20 by then, so I soon had over 60 Monks. I don't think decereasing number of Monks to less than 10 makes a lot of sense, given that the player has acces to a Monastery in town. So, I'd say, either leave them at 10 and let the player conquer the map if he really wants, or decrease them and also decrease growth in town. Then player will probably not try to conquer the map. Also, I didn't notice any message about GM Scouting being forbidden.



@Taro: 8 Dragons. I checked that 1 day earlier there were 7. In WoW they are in 1 stack, makeing it possible to beat them. In Equi they would be in 2 stacks at least and then it'd probably be impossible to beat them.
Edited on Sun, Feb 24 2013, 10:33 by Maciek


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