Poll: H6 Expansion or H7?

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Pol
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Postby Pol » Aug 3 2012, 22:45

@jeff
If the game would be modding friendly it wouldn't take so much effort to create good mods. The truth is, that HoMM games are hard to be modded, no one prepared the way.

You definitively don't need to be programmer for modding. Although it helps, where there are no tools you can do them yourself. But that should be mostly case for modding not friendly games.
Last edited by Pol on Aug 4 2012, 6:59, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby klaymen » Aug 4 2012, 6:28

jeff: smaller modding community also means more effort to make quality mods, instead of churning out "lol I made this fun stuff" (usually crap, as per Sturgeon's Law) because it is easy (though I am not implying that everyone will do it).

And I consider a good editor in a Heroes game as a must-have. The fact that Ubi does not feel that way is one of the reasons why they should give the rights to someone more capable and competent. Until they change themselves, they will get my finger instead of my money. And I seriously doubt that they will change.
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Postby Pol » Aug 4 2012, 7:00

Yep. :)
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Postby GreatEmerald » Aug 4 2012, 11:44

Pol wrote:> If the game would be modding friendly it wouldn't take so much effort to create good mods. The truth is, that HoMM games are hard to be modded, no one prepared the way.


This. I come from the background of Unreal games, which are extremely easy to mod. And I have released a whole bunch on non-trivial mods (and I'll be releasing one today or tomorrow, as a matter of fact). Things like "modding" (actually hacking, as in "ROM hacking") HoMM3 and HoMM4 is a lot more difficult, because they were never meant to be modded (in fact, they were made to be completely closed).

Also, modding complexity stays the same, no matter if it's a 2D or 3D game. Modelling gets harder, yes, but the amount of logic stays the same.

As for the price, well, they'll get more purchases of the base game - they won't even have to develop expansion packs. Plus, if they really want to, why not make expansion packs what they historically were - more content using the same mechanics?

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Re: Poll: H6 Expansion or H7?

Postby Qurqirish Dragon » Aug 4 2012, 11:45

infael wrote:I play Heroes Kingdoms, which is run by Ubi. They have destroyed HK by making huge changes & dropping in the middle of the game. Where it once was about building heroes & cities, anything can now be had by buying seals. This includes artifacts & ” legendary heroes”. These heroes have triple digit stats & can be purchased for 2 weeks use. My alliance is planning to leave after our server is done, unless Ubi creates seal-free worlds.


Wow! I haven't played since my first season 3 server finished. I'm glad I didn't see the rise of these heroes. Triple-digit stats? Do they also have accordinly complete skill trees? A power 60 level 5 spell was already very strong in there. I can't imagine how overpowered a 100+ spell-power (or attack or defense, for that matter) spell would be. I'm glad I haven't gone back.
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Poll: H6 Expansion or H7?

Postby Karmakeld » Aug 4 2012, 12:19

@CloudRiderX: "I just don't want Heroes into Call of Duty model - make a slight change and sell it as a new game. That is why I am against making new Heroes game based on Heroes 3 (and that is one of the reasons why I hate Heroes 5)."

Total agreement on CoD model hate. I have no idea why people buy those games.
...but in Ubisoft's defense, they reached out to the Heroes community (including us) to determine which game was the best foundation for the series' revival, and everyone pointed at Heroes III, regardless of personal favorites. All sequels should have a blend of pre-existing core mechanics and new material, so you can't hang them on that decision.

In many ways, I think the community itself makes Ubi;s job more difficult. There are a lot of old school fans in our community, and some of them will never be happy with the newer games regardless of what Heroes games they draw from. At least when Heroes V was being worked on, fans were somewhat united. These days, each fan seems to have a unique condition of satisfaction, and Ubi will never be able to fulfill them all.

I've never played WoG, but I got the impression there were optioninal game features you could check/uncheck. I know this would add a tremendious amount of work for the devs, but it might be a way to make everyone happy. I guess you could call it an expended difficulty settings :-)
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Re: Poll: H6 Expansion or H7?

Postby jeff » Aug 4 2012, 13:44

Karmakeld wrote: .but in Ubisoft's defense, they reached out to the Heroes community (including us) to determine which game was the best foundation for the series' revival, and everyone pointed at Heroes III, regardless of personal favorites.


Be very careful when using broad all-encompassing phrases such as all, none, everyone or no one; it can make you look uninformed. Everyone did not point to H-3; it may have been a majority, however when UBI started checking with the communities there was a significant desire that was voiced to see them continue the H-IV line. I know, I was here and I was one that gave that feedback. We were ignored, and by not at least incorporating more of the features of H-IV they missed an opportunity.
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Poll: H6 Expansion or H7?

Postby TheUnknown » Aug 5 2012, 18:07

Don't people get enough of the heroes 3 remakes? How can they revive the series when they try to walk the path that was already walked too much. I think the new part will need new invention (fresh ideas), or innovation from other parts, not just heroes 3. Simultaneous retaliations is one of the stuff I think that a new heroes game must have. Or at least an option for it ...

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Postby mr.hackcrag » Aug 5 2012, 19:13

I think a good way to reinvent the series is to create new factions/units. I would say to drop some previous factions, but people don't like when that happens.

The story/world is one of the main problems that also inhibits a feeling of fresh reinvention.

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Poll: H6 Expansion or H7?

Postby cjlee » Aug 6 2012, 6:28

Admin Edit:
Offensive post to Ubisoft removed.

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Poll: H6 Expansion or H7?

Postby CloudRiderX » Aug 6 2012, 18:32

@Karmakeld
You would think that, but many of the gameplay options that they tried to implement in both H5 and H6 are either broken or just plain don't work. Remember "simultaneous turns" and "dynamic battle"?

@chimthegrim
The original comparison was not a direct one, it was klaymen's fear of the HoMM series becoming a mindless stream of games with only slight variations among them. Sorry, but incrementing the number in the title and adding a new campaign doesn't count as a sequel.
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Postby Toejam » Aug 7 2012, 22:02

Seems alot of people want Ubi to step away from the heroes III model..., wel they did... it's called Heroes VI and all the things they changed about it are crap... area of control,less recourses/races,skill system, converting towns, no spellbook,no diversity in buildings... And some people still call this the Heroes III model, right... :disagree:
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Postby klaymen » Aug 8 2012, 6:46

Toejam wrote:Seems alot of people want Ubi to step away from the heroes III model..., wel they did... it's called Heroes VI and all the things they changed about it are crap... area of control,less recourses/races,skill system, converting towns, no spellbook,no diversity in buildings... And some people still call this the Heroes III model, right... :disagree:


All we got from Ubisoft was Heroes 3 remake and some weird mix of stuff which is a total failure. However, Heroes 5 seemed to be more successful one, so should they want to continue the series, some genius may suggest that they copy again the better one. There are even many people in the community, who worship Heroes 3 as a kind of divine gift, so even a quick glance on various forums may suggest that if they want to be successful, they should do it again.

So this is why I fear that Heroes 3 may be raped again (read: remade) by Ubisoft. And no, I am not one of those who consider Heroes 3 as the best one, but as I have stated before - should I want to play Heroes 3, I'll play it instead of buying its newest remake.
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Poll: H6 Expansion or H7?

Postby Yurian Stonebow » Aug 8 2012, 12:28

If I wish to have a Heroes III session, well, I go and play the game! How simple is that? No remakes are needed to satisfy my hunger for once again roaming the lands of Antagarich. If the producers behind Heroes VI wish to meet and perhaps eclipse the success of Ubi's best Heroes game released so far, they can just stick to Heroes V and reshuffle it a bit.
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Postby ThunderTitan » Aug 8 2012, 13:37

klaymen wrote:- should I want to play Heroes 3, I'll play it instead of buying its newest remake.


But.. the sHINY!!!!
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Postby Dalai » Aug 8 2012, 14:46

ThunderTitan wrote: But.. the sHINY!!!!

And 3D! :-D
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Postby Pitsu » Aug 8 2012, 17:55

I perfectly understand why you guys do not want a remake of Heroes III. Who would want a copy of a copy of a copy anyway? As we know Heroes III itself is just a remake of Heroes II, which in turn is a remake of Heroes I. If to make something anew it should be the original Heroes I !
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Poll: H6 Expansion or H7?

Postby CloudRiderX » Aug 8 2012, 18:14

"All we got from Ubisoft was Heroes 3 remake and some weird mix of stuff which is a total failure."

What we got from Ubi was an attempt to make a better game than H5, which they absolutely did. If you didn't like H5 (and I would empathize with you), then you're beef is more with Ubi and not H6 itself. But if not, I have to disagree with you completely.

You don't to take my word for it either. Game reviewers of all kinds admitted that H6 is the most refreshing, immersive, and genuine Heroes game we've gotten in a while.

Areas of control were implemented to force conflict by prioritizing conquest (which is what the game is about) and end resource wars.

Rare resources were combined into a single rare resource that all factions can use. Since every faction in every Heroes game ever primarily used a specific rare resource to fuel its economy, making a single resource that each faction can use equally well has zero negative impact on gameplay and just makes acquiring resources less tedious in general.

Although I preferred H5's skill system (the only thing the game had going for it honestly), the H6 skill system uses trees. Not groundbreaking, but not broken either. There are several pros and cons to the skill tree system the way they implemented it, but the bottom line is that it works, and its something different from past games as well.

Then of course there is the fact that the game has better, more realistic graphics AND music.

If you're going to play the "Broken Online Interface" card, not only is that not part of the game, but I doubt the issues were Black Hole's fault to begin with.
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Postby Kalah » Aug 8 2012, 19:31

I have referred the insiders to the poll numbers and contents. Maybe they'll take some of it into account? :)
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Re: Poll: H6 Expansion or H7?

Postby Pitsu » Aug 8 2012, 19:39

@CloudRiderX

Been watching lot of Fox news lately?
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