Might and Magic Raiders?

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XEL II
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Postby XEL II » Jun 9 2011, 3:50

No, Heroes never had sci-fi elements implemented because it just happened so that their storyline was always not big enough to touch sci-fi aspects of the setting. There was no "avoiding" involved whatsoever, for instance, level 7 creatures of Inferno are members of extremely advanced and malevolent intergalactic race with hive-based society called Kreegan.

NWC has always approved sci-fi in HoMM sub-series and said it belongs there because Heroes is part of MM universe.
New World Computing wrote:Q: DOES SCIENCE FICTION BELONG IN HEROES?

GF: Yes.

http://www.heroesofmightandmagic.com/fo ... =interview

And this was written after the Forge town was cancelled, so one can tell that NWC did it under pressure (i.e. death threats) and was still considering sci-fi authentic to HoMM.

Besides:
New World Computing wrote:Q: WILL THE FORGE RETURN?

GF: Perhaps, but not in its current form.
Make you strong places to dwell and practice the evil of your arts. Build great monuments to stand through the ages and remind your followers of the task with which you have been charged. Use these halls of iniquity to perpetrate your schemes against the infestation that has taken the fields and lakes of this land from you, their rightful masters. Never forget the hatred that must finally overcome and consume mankind. Dwell in your dungeons and brood. - Sheltem the Dark

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Re: Might and Magic Raiders?

Postby XEL II » Jun 9 2011, 3:54

vicheron wrote:Why do they insist on putting Might and Magic first? It just sounds stupid. It's like if Spielberg decided to call Indiana Jones "Lost Ark Raiders" instead of "Raiders of the Lost Ark."<br>Edited on Wed, Jun 08 2011, 21:18 by vicheron

Because Might and Magic is the main series, HoMM is just part of it, a sub-series.
Make you strong places to dwell and practice the evil of your arts. Build great monuments to stand through the ages and remind your followers of the task with which you have been charged. Use these halls of iniquity to perpetrate your schemes against the infestation that has taken the fields and lakes of this land from you, their rightful masters. Never forget the hatred that must finally overcome and consume mankind. Dwell in your dungeons and brood. - Sheltem the Dark

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Re: Might and Magic Raiders?

Postby XEL II » Jun 9 2011, 4:07

hellegennes wrote:but MMIX had absolutely nothing in common with previous games on these terms

Wrong. MM IX mentons the fact that Axeth is one the planets created (like XEEN) or colonised (like Terra and Enroth) by the Ancients right in the opening cinematic. And there are numerous hints and clues on sci-fi, backstory, etc in the game itself. And the "mention of Roland" was not an easter egg, Nicolai Ironfist himself appeared as an NPC and was to play a role in future games.

NWC have changed settings for its games, but there was always solid connection between them in terms of lore, and game worlds were all part of the same universe. Ardon (Crusaders of MM, Warriors of MM, Shifters) and Axeoth (MM IX, HoMM IV with addons) are no exception.
Make you strong places to dwell and practice the evil of your arts. Build great monuments to stand through the ages and remind your followers of the task with which you have been charged. Use these halls of iniquity to perpetrate your schemes against the infestation that has taken the fields and lakes of this land from you, their rightful masters. Never forget the hatred that must finally overcome and consume mankind. Dwell in your dungeons and brood. - Sheltem the Dark

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Re: Might and Magic Raiders?

Postby XEL II » Jun 9 2011, 4:10

Ya5MieL wrote:And that is what keeps hopes of salvation up, even as unlikely as it actually is.

Totally agreed. Lets hope Marzhin isn't all that submissive to UbiHole as it seems and will propose (or has already done it ) something like that ;)
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Postby ThunderTitan » Jun 9 2011, 6:04

He's just a map maker, i doubt he has much say...
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Postby XEL II » Jun 9 2011, 6:20

ThunderTitan wrote:and of course Urgash is the one that thought Kreegans expies should be included too...

Ashan demons don't resemble Kreegan sufficently, and the Ancients had demons among their children-races. On the other hand, considering hw antagonistic Sheogh demons are to all other inhabitants, Urgash could be somehow related to Kreegan.
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Postby ThunderTitan » Jun 9 2011, 6:24

That's because Urgash sucks at making stuff, that's why he's all into chaos, because then he can claim he totally meant to make that look like he spilled paint all over the floor.
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Postby XEL II » Jun 9 2011, 6:29

Urgash's demons could be demons pf the same type as demons from Ancients' worlds.

Anyway, who would Asha and Urgash be in origin?
Make you strong places to dwell and practice the evil of your arts. Build great monuments to stand through the ages and remind your followers of the task with which you have been charged. Use these halls of iniquity to perpetrate your schemes against the infestation that has taken the fields and lakes of this land from you, their rightful masters. Never forget the hatred that must finally overcome and consume mankind. Dwell in your dungeons and brood. - Sheltem the Dark

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Postby Avonu » Jun 9 2011, 6:56

Asha - S.H.E.L.T.E.M. unit
Urgash - C.O.R.A.K. unit

:D

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Might and Magic Raiders?

Postby hellegennes » Jun 9 2011, 13:05

@XEL II: <br> <br>First of all, I have pointed out myself that there is a mention of the ancients in the intro. But that's just a single line; you can't even consider to be background. Claiming this is a connection to the series is absolutely ridiculous. I don't know if they had plans for Nicolai, but his place in MM9 was a plain easter egg. He did not have any importance to the game other than a silly subquest that could have been for any other character. It was just an easter egg mention of the circus arc quests in MM6 (key to the plot, may I remind you). I remember no other reference to sci-fi elements in MM9. <br> <br>Now, about Heroes, even though the Kreegans appear, I don't remember any direct reference of them being an advanced alien race. While in MM they appear as an alien race and that's that, in Heroes games they appear as demons. More of a supernatural thing than aliens. Even their line-up suggests that they aren't the same thing. No-one looks anything like the Kreegans from the MM series. They all look like various creatures from hell. They have cerberi and efreeti (which was in MM but not Kreegan) and familiar and fiends. Their 7th level tier is a DEVIL for crying out loud! He even looks like the devil and not a Kreegan. Clearly, the whole line-up was created to remind gamers of spawns of hell, not an alien race.

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Postby GreatEmerald » Jun 10 2011, 12:27

MM9 might not have sci-fi elements, but for one, they might not have had the time to include them (the game's a freaking beta to begin with), and even if they didn't plan to include them, it has plenty of references to HoMM4 and such, a lot of information about Axeoth. It's definitely not a new universe, simply a continent.

And once again, Kreegans look like demons because they look like demons in MMs as well. It just wouldn't be nice if you had a town consisting of two units, now would it. Besides, once again, remember that they forgot/didn't deem necessary to include sci-fi into HoMM2, and HoMM3 was created with HoMM2 players in mind. They couldn't have included spaceships unless they wanted death threats, and when they summoned enough courage to do that, they got them.

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Might and Magic Raiders?

Postby hellegennes » Jun 10 2011, 12:59

It's not a continent, it's a planet. Enroth was destroyed and they had to flee. Kreegans in MM look nothing like those in HoMM. And it's not that they had only 2 units. There were various demons. HoMM inferno was built with a Dantic hell picture in mind, throwing in some mythological creatures as well. Do their towns look like spaceships or like Dante's descriptions? If you've read Divine Comedy, you know the answer. Hell, the relative chapter is called Inferno. <br>Do you really think this was not a conscious choice?

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Postby GreatEmerald » Jun 10 2011, 14:14

I mean that it's not the same continent as in HoMM4. But it's the exact same planet.

Again, they couldn't make it a sci-fi town or HoMM2 players would have been flipped out.

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Might and Magic Raiders?

Postby hellegennes » Jun 10 2011, 17:54

That's what I'm saying. They didn't employ sci-fi because Heroes' fanbase was different and had no recollection of the setting being the base of a scifi lore. Part of it, is because Heroes was not originally meant to be in direct relation with MM. It was a remake of King's Bounty bearing the title of MM, quite possible to add marketing value to the series. Of course it was filled with tons of easter eggs from the MM universe, mostly in the form of creatures and heroes' names. These were all different people though. It wasn't until H2 when it was decided that the two series share a common plotline. At the time, MM6 was in the works, so they chose to merge the plots. I may be wrong about this, but all things point in the direction of H1 not to have been planned as having a direct relation with MM.

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Postby GreatEmerald » Jun 10 2011, 18:15

My thoughts as well. They made King's Bounty, were happy with it, then created HoMM1 as an updated version but had no intentions of adding sci-fi elements since it was still not much more than KB. Then in HoMM2 they just decided to join the threads, but not so far as to include the sci-fi part of them. And when HoMM3 came, it was already too late. But that doesn't mean that sci-fi doesn't belong in HoMM, it's just that the fanbase is different.

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Postby Corlagon » Jun 11 2011, 10:12

GreatEmerald wrote:it has plenty of references to HoMM4 and such


There isn't a single reference to Heroes IV or its events anywhere, at all, in MM9 (aside from Nicolai and Fjall Bodilssen making vague references to the Reckoning).

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Postby GreatEmerald » Jun 11 2011, 13:17

To the land of Axeoth, I mean. The plays and such.

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Postby ThunderTitan » Jun 11 2011, 22:41

XEL II wrote:>>Anyway, who would Asha and Urgash be in origin?<<


Like i said, another alien race, it's not like a place as big as a galaxy need only have 2 space capable races...
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Might and Magic Raiders?

Postby hellegennes » Jun 12 2011, 13:37

I have a more extreme theory. They are two from the band of heroes from Might and Magic VII, which passed through a gate and ended up there, transformed into dragons in the process. Or they are the dragons the heroes brought with them. <br> <br>I'm joking of course. :p <br> <br>Basically, even though I hope this will change, I think that the producers created the new universe because they wanted to assimilate Blizzard's universe, which is a standard place, with its established lore and stuff, rather than moving from planet to planet every few titles. I understand this move in that they see that the fans can bond better with a strictly continuous universe. Blizzard has proved this, making a fortune out of Warcraft. It is most probable that all future titles will just feature this planet and the affairs and politics already established, unless they go for a reboot. That they are trying to imitate things from Warcraft and Warhammer is quite obvious in almost every aspect.

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Re: Might and Magic Raiders?

Postby ThunderTitan » Jun 25 2011, 13:41

hellegennes wrote:>>I have a more extreme theory. They are two from the band of heroes from Might and Magic VII, which passed through a gate and ended up there, transformed into dragons in the process. Or they are the dragons the heroes brought with them.<<


X-Men did it: SIEGE PERILOUS!
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