CH Exclusive: Julien Pirou Q&A

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CH Exclusive: Julien Pirou Q&A

Postby Tale » Apr 14 2011, 6:39

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XEL II said: "Bull****, Forge could fit very well, it was just the matter of idiocy from several "fans", who've send angry mail to NWC and 3DO, even death threats among them."
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I think Forge could have fit well into Heroes 3. The Heavenly Forge was already in the story with a lead up to it. Conceptually, it would have worked. It's not like magic and technology can't overlap in a fantasy game: look at Arcanum, an amazing game from 2001. The problem with Forge was simply that it was overdone.

Heroes 1, 2, and 3, pre-Forge, were pure fantasy. Yet Forge, as designed, showed a city that belonged more in 2000 AD than anything even remotely of the time. It was too much, too fast. As a result, it either would have completely obsoleted everything else in the game or been entirely unbelievable. For example, in M&M 6, there was no point in using any weapon other than the blaster rifle once you got it. That weapon just devastated everything - it dealt more damage than the strongest relic and was ranged to boot. That's what Forge was when compared to any of the other factions.

As for the new story, I do generally like the story of Ashan as written. It just hasn't had much time to develop, and of the two games that involve Ashan, neither were effective at relaying the story. Heroes 5 had such a terrible story deliverance that I wanted to just ignore the story and play the maps, and Dark Messiah was forgettable. It's been the vehicles, not the story, that were bad. I'm hoping they do better with Heroes 6.

And of course, I am really hoping for a new Might and Magic RPG.

(I think the Kirin is my favorite Sanctuary unit, followed by the snow maiden and the coral priestess. I even kinda like Bucket Head. It's really not the influence that I object to; it's how *overdone* the stereotypical Japanese theme is. The Japanese names, the lotus flower, the Samurai code... even the name Hashima is the name of both a Japanese city and a Japanese island.)
Edited on Thu, Apr 14 2011, 02:46 by Tale

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CH Exclusive: Julien Pirou Q&A

Postby XEL II » Apr 14 2011, 7:29

Tale:
CloudRiderX:

Honestly, guys, I don't think that we can really judge the art style of Forge based on that couple screenshots that were shown during its production and say it was "overdone:. NWC was NWC and I'm sure they made it look good in the game itself. BTW, "Naga tank" was merely a concept art.

And, as I said earlier, SF totally fits into Heroes (especially lore-wise) because of MM universe (and Heroes is, like it or not, part of MM), which is SF in backstory. SF was part of MM since the original game released in 1987! And general backstory of MM universe about Ancients, Creators, Great Experiment and Guardians is also SF in nature.

Even Heroes sub-series had SF elements: "Grail" type artifact in HoMM I was Eye of Goros (which is a type of items from the Ancients), level 7th crreature in Inferno town is Kreegan, and the Kreegan are race of highly advanced vile space aliens (akin to Zerg from StarCraft to the point) with hivemind social structure. HoMM I backstory (from the game manual) has Morglin Jerico Ironfist travelling to Enroth from VARN 4 (the setting of the original Might and Magic Book One), which is a worldship with biosphere in it.

Sure, SF elements were not as explicit in Heroes as they were in main RPG series, but it's not like NWC were specifically trying to avoid showing them (which was proven by their intention to make Forge as new town in AB and all that Greg Fulton explained after its cancellation). MM universe is SF in origin, and Heroes was part of the (original NWC's) MM series. II
Edited on Thu, Apr 14 2011, 04:28 by XEL II
Make you strong places to dwell and practice the evil of your arts. Build great monuments to stand through the ages and remind your followers of the task with which you have been charged. Use these halls of iniquity to perpetrate your schemes against the infestation that has taken the fields and lakes of this land from you, their rightful masters. Never forget the hatred that must finally overcome and consume mankind. Dwell in your dungeons and brood. - Sheltem the Dark

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CH Exclusive: Julien Pirou Q&A

Postby CloudRiderX » Apr 14 2011, 15:24

@XEL II
So you decide to argue my weakest point, by far.

Your perspective fails to take into consideration the importance of video game implementation, whether justified by in-game lore or not.

If you played a Superman game where Superman lost all of his powers, it would likely be a miserable experience - even if the loss of his powers was explained through the game's storyline. It's miserable because you expect Superman to have his powers, and no matter what reason the game itself gives, that gaming experience will never meet your expectations.

So you arguing that the fact that HoMM takes place in a sci-fi universe justifies putting a futuristic faction in a setting that has always been its own fantasy subset is completely moot.

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Postby Pitsu » Apr 14 2011, 16:27

Until H4 infernopolis NWC (unlike ubi nowadays) was actually very good at keeping official lore out from common gameplay. So I am willing to believe the wild rumor that forge was supposed to be intentionally unbalanced faction which (including related units) were prohibited from other maps, unless the mapmaker specifically allowed them. The greatest failure in the entire process was probably 3DO PR handling.
Oh, and i did enjoy H3 maps with SF story and even SF modded WoG maps have not ruined the experience...
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CH Exclusive: Julien Pirou Q&A

Postby CloudRiderX » Apr 14 2011, 18:14

Cool story. Don't take my argument out of context, and please don't put words in my mouth.

I never said that sci-fi was bad in HoMM.

I never said you could not enjoy the sci-fi element of the Might and Magic universe.

I said that the Forge faction was clearly out of place amidst its fantasy competitors, and, combined with the poorly implemented, rehashed units, the whole concept was total garbage.
It would be the equivalent of Ubisoft releasing the Hammers of Fate expansion and claiming the Renegades were a brand-new faction. Except they had chainsaws and rocket launchers.
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Postby Angelspit » Apr 14 2011, 18:19

Pitsu wrote:The greatest failure in the entire process was probably 3DO PR handling.

Oh absolutely. Especially since that was in 2000, back when Internet communities were unorganized and pretty much harmless.
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Re: CH Exclusive: Julien Pirou Q&A

Postby Pitsu » Apr 14 2011, 19:07

CloudRiderX wrote:Not only does it put a high-tech town amidst a medieval fantasy realm, but its 'creatures' were quite literally currently existing creatures from other factions with different weapons.


IMO the use of existing monsters was perfectly as it should have been. Forge was not an invasion of other civilization, but it was (re)invention of mass duplication of ancient relics. The lowest level monsters are even Deyja (first new forge) natives. The faction skill of forge could have been to convert other units into own by "equipping" them. Like necromancy feeding on all other factions, but yet differently. Of course maybe they should have started by duplicating minor artifacts before ancient ones. Would have been easier to understand for a casual player.

Angelspit wrote:Oh absolutely. Especially since that was in 2000, back when Internet communities were unorganized and pretty much harmless.

It was further proved by their inability to market the best gaming console in human history. :p
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Postby Corlagon » Apr 15 2011, 13:07

Be assured that Heroes VI will pay the "old universe" quite a lot of respect - much more so than H5, at least.

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CH Exclusive: Julien Pirou Q&A

Postby JSE » Apr 15 2011, 13:54

I'm sorry if this sounds harsh but if Ubisoft actually respected the original M&M universe and its fans, they would have chosen to continue it.

Dropping a couple of familiar names and evoking some dear old memories won't do the M&M legacy justice -- not by far.

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Postby Corlagon » Apr 15 2011, 14:07

If Marzhin had been on their team then, sure. But if the storywriters of Heroes V had been told to directly continue that of Heroes IV alone, I'll bet my house that the continuity would have been brutally torn to shreds, doing even less justice to the series than H5's Ashan.

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CH Exclusive: Julien Pirou Q&A

Postby CloudRiderX » Apr 15 2011, 16:25

Yeah, thats a good point. Sometimes its easy to assume that if Ubi had continued the old universe, that it would have magically been just as good as NWC's vision. Not likely in any case. Maybe we've been spared a horrible fate, haha.
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CH Exclusive: Julien Pirou Q&A

Postby XEL II » Apr 16 2011, 6:07

It would have been great if they got NWC to work on MM X. Screw HoMM V, I for one wouldn't really care about a spin-off title as long as there is an entry in the core series made by JVC. He especially should have been the lead designer, since he had very little involvement with MM IX and HoMM IV.
Make you strong places to dwell and practice the evil of your arts. Build great monuments to stand through the ages and remind your followers of the task with which you have been charged. Use these halls of iniquity to perpetrate your schemes against the infestation that has taken the fields and lakes of this land from you, their rightful masters. Never forget the hatred that must finally overcome and consume mankind. Dwell in your dungeons and brood. - Sheltem the Dark

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Postby theLuckyDragon » Apr 16 2011, 6:33

Oh my gosh, you people are still debating stuff such as "doing justice" and "respect" regarding the storyline? :rofl: I guess the subject will always be discussed, but seriously... there must be some more important things in this world that deserve "respect" and need "justice done" to them than a simple computer game. ;| My 2 cents.
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CH Exclusive: Julien Pirou Q&A

Postby XEL II » Apr 16 2011, 7:12

Spare us all this crap, please. It's downright retarded to talk about how "computer games are not that important" and stuff on the SITE ABOUT A COMPUTER GAME SERIES >_< Seriously.
Edited on Sat, Apr 16 2011, 09:33 by XEL II
Make you strong places to dwell and practice the evil of your arts. Build great monuments to stand through the ages and remind your followers of the task with which you have been charged. Use these halls of iniquity to perpetrate your schemes against the infestation that has taken the fields and lakes of this land from you, their rightful masters. Never forget the hatred that must finally overcome and consume mankind. Dwell in your dungeons and brood. - Sheltem the Dark

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CH Exclusive: Julien Pirou Q&A

Postby astral76minor » Apr 16 2011, 19:15

After 15 years, most of us will still be talking like this. Never will anyone forget the loss of 3DO and the old M&M universe.

After 25 years, there will be some of us left, but then it will be like telling stories to children about the good 'ol days.

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Postby CloudRiderX » Apr 17 2011, 1:34

Sorry, LuckyDragon, but I have to agree with XEL II. I don't see the point of throwing a 'big picture' point on a gaming website.
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Postby Kalah » Apr 17 2011, 2:39

I guess everybody could use a bit of big picture reminder from time to time ... but that's not really why people come here, I reckon'. :D
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CH Exclusive: Julien Pirou Q&A

Postby astral76minor » Apr 17 2011, 4:28

Heroes 6 in three days. Try and buy the beta....

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Re: CH Exclusive: Julien Pirou Q&A

Postby theLuckyDragon » Apr 17 2011, 8:19

Oh, but a computer game website is THE best place to come and tell computer games fans to chill out :) I am aware of the fact that it resembles entering a dragon's lair and telling it to stop breathing fire, but still: if people are free to call someone's opinion "crap" and "retarded", I can have the freedom to tell you people to relax, and am in fact, IMO, justified in doing so. It's just a game, people :) Peace.
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CH Exclusive: Julien Pirou Q&A

Postby JSE » Apr 18 2011, 0:10

"It's just a game, people [...]"

That's a very simplistic way of seeing things. For many of us, games are more than just lighthearted entertainment to fill some hours. Games are complex and detailed enough to be considered works of art by those who appreciate them.

Do you believe that being passionate about art is over the top?

When I'm choosing expressions like "respect" and "doing justice" with regard to the current state of the Heroes series, it means that I am passionate about the original games and the series as a whole. It also means that I am disappointed with what has happened to Heroes and M&M since Ubisoft took over.

Being a fan doesn't mean to be blindly loyal and to accept whatever they give you -- it means to know what you like and to be interested in seeing it continued the way you like it.


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