Some aspects of gameplay: Recovery Time, Dual Weapons

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Some aspects of gameplay: Recovery Time, Dual Weapons

Postby GrayFace » Apr 7 2009, 17:59

New and improved version of this is here: http://sites.google.com/site/sergroj/mm/mechanics

Recovery Time is delay between your strikes. I'll describe how it is calculated in MM8. In MM7 it is probably the same. In MM6 it should differ in some aspects.
The recovery time is a sum of factors described here. It can't go lower than 30.

Recovery times of weapons:
Staff: 100
Sword: 90
Dagger: 60
Axe: 100
Spear: 80
Bow: 100
Mace: 80
Blaster: 30

Unarmed combat: If you have Unarmed skill, recovery time will be the same as that of Dagger = 60. If you don't, recovery time will be the same as that of Staff = 100.

Recovery times of armor and shield:
Shield: 10
Leather: 10
Chain: 20
Plate: 30

(Note: you can find the table of recovery times for weapon and armor skills in .exe and change it. It is a sequence of 2-byte integers)

Skills with 'reduces recovery time' feature.
-1*skill
(-2*skill for GM Armsmaster)
Note that items that increase Bow/Axe/Sword skills are ignored here (only the skill of character is used). Armsmaster items are included.

Effects:
Haste: -25 (in MM7 and MM8 it didn't work before Mok's patch)
Swift: -20 (some artifacts and 2 'increases weapon speed' enchantments)
Slow: 20 (artifact sword 'Final' only)
(also note that Herald's Boots were meant to reduce recovery time, but they cannot be used as a weapon, so they don't effect recovery time)

Speed:
Here is a table of speed barriers and corresponding recovery time effects.
Example: If 400 <= Speed < 500, then you will get -25 to recovery time.
500: -30
400: -25
350: -20
300: -19
275: -18
250: -17
225: -16
200: -15
175: -14
150: -13
125: -12
100: -11
75: -10
50: -9
40: -8
35: -7
30: -6
25: -5
21: -4
19: -3
17: -2
15: -1
13: 0
11: +1
9: +2
7: +3
5: +4
3: +5
0: +6

Sum up these effects and you'll get the final value. If it is lower than 30, recovery time will be 30.

Example 1:
Mace, Shield, Leather, 15 Speed. All skills are at initial level, no Armsmaster.
Recovery time will be 80 + 10 + 10 - 2 = 98.

Example 2:
Axe will be slower than Spear while Axe skill is less than 20. Only than it will be faster.

Dual Weapons
When wielding 2 weapons the one with higher base recovery time is used in calculations. That is, the one with higher value from the first table. If both weapons have the same recovery time, the one in the right hand is used.
Only skill and properties of this weapon are used. The other weapon doesn't effect recovery time at all.
Example 1: if you wield Spear and Sword, the Sword is used always.
Example 2: if you have 2 swords - one with Swift property and the other without it, put the Swift one in the right hand. Otherwise swiftness will be ignored.

Dual Weapons: Attack & Damage
When using dual weapons only skill of the weapon in your left hand (the one that may hold shield) is used in calculation of attack and damage.
Example: if you wield Spear and Sword, the Spear skill will only effect Armor Class if you are GM. Attack, Damage and recovery time would be taken from Sword skill.
In MM6 before version 1.4 of my patch recovery time of the weapon in the second hand was added to the calculated value. Thus, wielding second weapon was useless.

Other Notes
Chance to cause tripple damage by dagger is 10%. It doesn't depend on the skill. Only the damage of the dagger itself is tripled. In MM7 and MM8 this always works for dagger in the second hand, even if you aren't master in the skill (it's a bug).
Last edited by Anonymous on Feb 23 2010, 1:42, edited 15 times in total.
My patches: MM6 MM7 MM8. MMExtension. Tools. Also, I love Knytt Stories and Knytt Underground. I'm also known as sergroj.

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Postby GrayFace » Apr 8 2009, 6:50

Statistics Effects
The table for Speed from my first post is used for all staticstics (with positive sign instead of negative).
Might adds this value to melee damage
Intellect and Personality add this value to SP multiplied by mana multiplyer of character class.
Accuracy adds this value to Attack
Endurance adds this value to HP, multiplyed by HP multiplier of the class.
Speed adds this value to Armor Class and subtracts it from recovery time.
Luck adds this value to all resistances, although this is not shown in your character screen.
Statistics may effect some other aspects I haven't studied.
My patches: MM6 MM7 MM8. MMExtension. Tools. Also, I love Knytt Stories and Knytt Underground. I'm also known as sergroj.

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Postby GrayFace » May 23 2009, 19:27

Recovery from monsters attacks
The time needed to recover from monsters attacks is 20 - effect of Endurance. So, with Endurance of 350 and more there's no recovery from monsters attacks.
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Postby Suleman » May 25 2009, 16:41

...this is most enlightening. Are you really saying that if my knight uses a spear and a sword, I should pump my sword and armsmaster skills rather than the spear skill? Also, I knew Haste didn't do anything, I so knew it!
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Postby GrayFace » May 25 2009, 20:33

Yes, you can check it. I haven't checked much myself in fact, I just studied the disassembled exe.
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Postby GrayFace » Jun 13 2009, 18:35

Increases rate of Recovery
I've found the way it works. This enchantment was supposed to increase recovery rate by 1.5 times (that's a huge bonus), but due to rounding it doesn't work on today's computers.
My patches: MM6 MM7 MM8. MMExtension. Tools. Also, I love Knytt Stories and Knytt Underground. I'm also known as sergroj.

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Postby GrayFace » Jun 18 2009, 23:12

I've reorganized the information and added new 'Chance To Hit and Resistances' part here: http://sites.google.com/site/sergroj/mm/mechanics
My patches: MM6 MM7 MM8. MMExtension. Tools. Also, I love Knytt Stories and Knytt Underground. I'm also known as sergroj.

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Postby zipi » Jun 19 2009, 7:59

a very nice research... well done

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Postby Jymbob » Feb 21 2010, 15:09

When dual wielding two weapons, lets say two daggers.
Do we get extra damage from both of them from for instance fire aura?
Or just from the right, or from the left?

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Postby GrayFace » Feb 21 2010, 18:49

From both.
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Re: Some aspects of gameplay: Recovery Time, Dual Weapons

Postby Mn » Feb 22 2010, 9:48

So - blasters are the most quickly and useful weapons? I completed both original MM6-7 without using blasters with 1-st level group. And about Your numbers of recovery time - there are several items (of Recovery, of Darkness...) - they must increase weapon speed, or I mistaked? Sorry - you may noticed and wrote about this, I dont read all yours topic with real attention.

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Re: Some aspects of gameplay: Recovery Time, Dual Weapons

Postby Jymbob » Feb 22 2010, 10:12

Mn wrote:So - blasters are the most quickly and useful weapons? I completed both original MM6-7 without using blasters with 1-st level group. And about Your numbers of recovery time - there are several items (of Recovery, of Darkness...) - they must increase weapon speed, or I mistaked? Sorry - you may noticed and wrote about this, I dont read all yours topic with real attention.


Using Greyface's awesome path let you now see the recovery time for what weapon your wielding. Just right click on the attack numbers on each character, try to switch weapons and see the difference. This is a really great feature. As for blasters, they have 30 in recovery time, and you cant go lower than that anyway...

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Re: Some aspects of gameplay: Recovery Time, Dual Weapons

Postby GrayFace » Feb 23 2010, 1:41

Mn wrote:And about Your numbers of recovery time - there are several items (of Recovery, of Darkness...) - they must increase weapon speed, or I mistaked?

No, weapon speed bonus is only taken from 1 weapon. Damage bonuses are taken from both. Skill bonus is taken from 1 weapon. Other bonuses are taken from both, AFAIR, but it may depend on the bonus.
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Re: Some aspects of gameplay: Recovery Time, Dual Weapons

Postby Jymbob » Feb 23 2010, 18:51

GrayFace wrote: Unarmed combat: If you have Unarmed skill, recovery time will be the same as that of Dagger = 60. If you don't, recovery time will be the same as that of Staff = 100.


What if the monk has GM in both unarmed and staff and use staff, what recovery time are we looking at then?

And for an archer with M in Spear and E in Dagger, using both dagger and spear, will the faster dagger determan the recovery time for the spear aswell?

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Re: Some aspects of gameplay: Recovery Time, Dual Weapons

Postby Macros the Black » Feb 23 2010, 22:07

Jymbob wrote:What if the monk has GM in both unarmed and staff and use staff, what recovery time are we looking at then?

I think there was a bug or something that made it so the recovery time of the staff was used, and so you're better off never learning the staff skill for a Monk. I'm not sure though, I read this in another thread.
And for an archer with M in Spear and E in Dagger, using both dagger and spear, will the faster dagger determan the recovery time for the spear aswell?

Like he said, for dual wielding the weapon with the biggest (=slowest!) recovery time is used. Thus, the dagger will be as slow as a spear when dual wielding those. From personal experience only the very best daggers are worth dual wielding with your spear (barring enchantments).
You'd think Darkmoor was a ghost town, but instead there's plenty of life among the dead.

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Postby Jymbob » Feb 26 2010, 9:46

I'm playing with four rangers atm.
Are you kidding me the recovery time is high using axe and wearing chainmails.
I dont want to get it even higher using a shield and the minotaur one hand axe seems almost as good as the headmands two-hander axe, so again I'm looking at the possibility to wield a dagger in shield hand.

Btw: the ranger class (though quick and easy to promote) must be by far the worst class of them all. No alchemy, no repair, no identifying, and crappy in most other skills. And the two things they really shine at: ID monsters and axe seems useless...

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Postby Macros the Black » Feb 26 2010, 17:56

When they say "jack of all trades, master of none" they really meant "master of none". Imo the Ranger should get at least bow grandmastery, then he'd not be so useless. But, if you wanted a challenge, you've picked the right party.

There's no point in giving all four of them shields though, and dualwielding daggers with axes seems like a bad idea (the dagger will be as slow as the axe, thereby losing it's whole purpose - you'll have an extra enchantment though). How about giving one of your rangers (the one at the left, as he'll be attacked more often) a one-handed axe and a shield, and deck the other three out in two-handers?

Btw there are alot more legendary two-handed axes then there are legendary one-handed axes.. And one really good one is guaranteed to drop in the Minotaur Maze.

As for chain armor, no need to worry, the ranger can master this skill which completely eliminates the recovery time for wearing chain armor (i.e. it becomes "0").

One thing about axes though, they're the only weapon skill that has both damage and recovery time decrease per skill point, so once you start putting in alot of skill points it actually becomes really good. Sadly this is all theoretical since by that time you'll most likely have blasters. But, since you have four of the same characters, you might have quite some skill points to spare..
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Postby Variol » Feb 26 2010, 18:44

Yeah Jymbo'
Psycho party or what!? 8|

I always like to take the same 4 as well, but I have tried them, but they just suck waaaay too much.

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Postby Jymbob » Feb 26 2010, 22:51

The 4xranger is actually the last run-through with 4 of the same class going light path, after that I'll try them all going dark path.
I was saving the rangers to the last cause I knew I was going to hate them.
When going dark, I'll prolly do the druids as last though. Right now I cannot imagen doing the warlock quest with 4xgreat druids, so..

I dont save-reload much so unless I have GM in Body magic I dont do the minotaur lair or titans tower (just a quick in-an-out for the bow). Normally the game is mostly to build up to survive through the tunnel to Eofol, from the I just use a fly-scroll (or NPC) to Xenofex, and I find him and Lincoln very easy so its all about getting through to Eofol, heh. Ohh, and I never use blasters..

Thoughts so far:
4xclerics: as easy as suspected.
4xknights: easier that I thought, they really smite through most.
4xsorcerer: Very hard at first, actually I had to use invisibility alot there.
4xarcher: very easy, they arrow most down fast.
4xpally: also easy, paralyze very often when they are 4 of them.
4xthiefs: 8 fast daggers makes them like the knights.
4xdruids: as easy as the clerics.
4xmonks: as easy as the knights.

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Postby Variol » Feb 27 2010, 2:16

Thanks for the input on the different parties!


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