Blasters screw up the game!

[Tress]

Didnt voted since have mixed feelings about it.
First i saw futuristic elements in mm6 I was quite frustrated too, but I accepted it as part of the games world. Even more considering that mm1-5 contained heavy futuristic elements(even more than 6).
Also I am glad that they dont tie in futuristic elements in Homm games, since that would imo kill of its atmosphere even if its the same world.
In fact many fantasy worlds have futuristic elements, like wizardry series(even stronger than mm series, at least more visible)

[Macros the Black]

I think when you get to that point in the game, you're pretty much ready to shoot the crap out of everything.

I hear ya, man. Definately, yeah.

I like how the futuristic elements in MM6 are hidden, like the general populace has no idea about it.. I remember the damsel you have to rescue for the Paladin quest says something like "Some say the pyramid in the Dragonsands is the ship with which our ancestors traveled to these lands.. But then there had to a be big lake there earlier?"
So they kind of have these tales about it, but they don't know that it was different than the kind of things they have now.
And only through getting to the Oracle, do you find out that there's this whole futuristic background story going on. I really liked that. I played MM6 for a very long time with a friend, and we kept restarting with different parties, and never got very far. Than one day I loaded up my very first party and decided to finish the game with it. After having played the game so much already, I was really surprised to find out the futuristic stuff all of a sudden.

[BMJedi]

I think it's possible to imagine that everything used by spellcasters actually has a scientific basis in the MM world - the spellcasters just don't think of it that way.

One can imagine that the ancients (archangels - I forget their racial name) 'adopted' the world of Enroth (what is the name of the planet?) and connected it to their stargate system, as well as provided an energy generator somewhere beneath the surface of the planet that would create a usable field of energy that the residents could wield as 'magic' in order to defend themselves.

(There was an episode of Star Trek where the crew of the Enterprise discovers a world where exactly that had happened.)

Also, I remember from the manual of HOMMI that Lord Ironfist Sr. is supposed to have stumbled into primitive Enroth through a gate, completely by accident, and become stranded there.

So, it's even possible that the archangels seeded the MM world with humans. Maybe humans weren't a native species, originally.

IMO, blasters fit perfectly into the scenario, as well as the existence of a stargate system. (Remember the ending of MM7, for example, and the intro movie to HOMMIV.)

A less-developed species being adopted by a more technologically advanced and paternalistic species (no Prime Directive for the archangels!) is at the core and is the essence of the Might and Magic universe, including the HOMM series.

[Sure Valla]

Uhm, I think its a medievil game still so it doesn't fit into it.....

Anyway it is usefull at some spots but not that fun.

In a way it makes the game easy!

I always do it without a blaster!

[Avonu]

One can imagine that the ancients (archangels - I forget their racial name)

Archangels are not the Ancients.

what is the name of the planet?

Enroth

as well as provided an energy generator somewhere beneath the surface of the planet that would create a usable field of energy that the residents could wield as 'magic' in order to defend themselves.

(There was an episode of Star Trek where the crew of the Enterprise discovers a world where exactly that had happened.)

In MM universe we have technology but also magic (and elemental planes). It is not so simply (and silly) like in ST TOS and TNG episodes.

So, it's even possible that the archangels seeded the MM world with humans. Maybe humans weren't a native species, originally.

Tomb of VARN
"The legends say that the great ship used in the Crossing lies buried under a giant stone tomb in the middle of Dragonsand. There must have been a lake or ocean long ago where the desert is now, for the ship to end up in the middle of the desert!"

Legend of the Crossing
"Ancient legends say that all the greatest artifacts from before the Silence came with the ship our distant ancestors used to get here from their homeland. They say the voyage was so long that three generations of people were born, lived, and died while aboard the ship! How's that for a whopper of a tale?!"

The Crossing
"The legend of the Crossing is more than a thousand years old, but that doesn't stop people from repeating it from time to time. The legend says that we all, and that even includes the elves, the dwarfs, and the goblins, came from the same place on a great ship that carried us across the void between the stars."

Uhm, I think its a medievil game still so it doesn't fit into it.....

But it is not. It's advanced civilization world which fell into barbarism and now rebuilding itself. You can like it or not but you can't deny this.

[BMJedi]

Avonu, Enroth is the name of the kingdom ruled by the Ironfists, not the whole planet.

The archangels may not be 'the ancients', but they and their masters currently control the gate system. (see MM7 ending movie)

I would argue that there's no such thing as 'magic' - only science, technology and culture that one doesn't fully understand yet, so one calls it 'magic'. But that's philosophy and only my opinion, not MM canon.

[Avonu]

Avonu, Enroth is the name of the kingdom ruled by the Ironfists, not the whole planet.

Name of kingdom, continent and planet. We have discussion about this some time ago.

[quote=""MM8"]The world of Enroth has fallen out of balance with the rest of the cosmos. As a result, the gateways to the elemental planes have been opened on your world, freeing the forces of Earth, Air, Fire, and Water to wreak havoc throughout the land.

You must form a party of up to five heroes to unite the human and monster races of the world in time to launch a joint campaign to close the gateways and save Enroth from planetary extinction.[/quote]

In game Xanthos (Ironfists' advisor) also says about this planet as Enroth.


About technology and magic - we have magic schools which use elements (fire, air, water and earth) and which "use" caster itself (spirit, mind and body). If the first can be somehow connected to elemental planes and draws power from there (we don't really know what these planes are) how would you explain self magic? How could it be connected and use with technology? I think that caster of that magic use his will and life energy (whatever it can be) to casts spells.

[Sure Valla]

To Avonu: you said you like it or not, dude... I LOVE IT!

I can live with blasters, yes
But i would be way better without

[GrayFace]

The archangels may not be 'the ancients', but they and their masters currently control the gate system. (see MM7 ending movie)

Ancients' androids are ..archangels???

About technology and magic - we have magic schools which use elements (fire, air, water and earth) and which "use" caster itself (spirit, mind and body). If the first can be somehow connected to elemental planes and draws power from there (we don't really know what these planes are) how would you explain self magic? How could it be connected and use with technology? I think that caster of that magic use his will and life energy (whatever it can be) to casts spells.

Is it written somewhere that the caster uses his own life energy? Maybe that energy comes from outside, but is accumulated by casters.

[Avonu]

The archangels may not be 'the ancients', but they and their masters currently control the gate system. (see MM7 ending movie)

Ancients' androids are ..archangels???

What I remember:
1. Ancients' androids were Guardians
2. We don't know anything about angels (only "heart attack")

Is it written somewhere that the caster uses his own life energy? Maybe that energy comes from outside, but is accumulated by casters.

Nope. Just my theory - but self magic (spirit, mind and body) and also Divine Intervention which aged caster 10 years can hint about this thing.

[BMJedi]

Avonu, you make good points. I also like the way you quote texts from the game to support your interpretations.

Thanks for clearing that up about the name 'Enroth'. It's kind of weird, though, that the Ironfists named their kingdom the same as the whole planet. Imagine a kingdom or city-state named 'Earth', and how confusing that would be!

Maybe only the Enrothians call the planet that, as a kind of self-conceit? I don't know if there's a reference in the game materials that would further clarify the issue. All I can think of is the story in the HOMM I manual detailing how Lord Ironfist Senior supposedly arrived on 'Enroth' from another world through a gate accident.

On the subject of magic, I would posit that full theories of the nature of magic in Enroth are mostly speculative and should be left up to the imagination of the individual player. I myself enjoy extrapolating from the game materials to create my own world of imagination in which I can have fun. Although sometimes, I admit, it is also fun to pretend to discuss and debate the issue with another player, as the wizards, warlocks, and necromancers of Enroth can be imagined to do in their guilds and towers.

Going back to the original topic of the thread, I just got blasters last night in my current MM7 game, and boy, was it ever fun! I only had one blaster wielded at grandmaster level by my thief, and that and a haste spell (hour of power, actually) let me ching-ching-cheow-bzzt-zap my way through about 50 or so behemoths and 100 or so medusas in the Eofol Tunnel like 'buttah'! Just like buttah!

So I guess my concluding answer to the OP would be, if you have fun with blasters like I do, use'em. If you don't enjoy them, ignore them.

[Macros the Black]

Remember that the Enrothians do not know anything about where their magic comes from, so the terms they use (elemental/self/mirror magic) can only point to the effects of these schools of magic, not where they come from.

Divine Intervention is Light Magic, not Self. Light Magic is part of Elemental Magic, iirc. Because the one guy (I think it was the Lich in a dungeon near Free Haven?) that discovered mirrored magic did so by combining the elementals or something, I read this in a scroll or so in a dungeon in MM6.

But anyway, regardless I would say that Light Magic gains power from the Sun, and Dark Magic from the Moon. This is very well established already by countless spells and orders within the MM universe, to such a degree that I would say the people in Enroth that believe this to be the case are probably correct.

However, what could also be the case is that the ancients use some kind of power grid that allows the use of control of the substance that the universe is made from (alike quantum mechanics). If that is the case, then perhaps magic on the world of Enroth behaves the way the caster thinks it should behave, and actually in reality there are no schools of magic, but they exist because people think they do.

[BMJedi]

Macros, I agree. You have excellent ideas.

[GrayFace]

If all characters are using blasters, Haste has no effect.

However, what could also be the case is that the ancients use some kind of power grid that allows the use of control of the substance that the universe is made from (alike quantum mechanics). If that is the case, then perhaps magic on the world of Enroth behaves the way the caster thinks it should behave, and actually in reality there are no schools of magic, but they exist because people think they do.

If this was true, any child would be able to blow the world up when he imagines he can do so. The only reason why there are different magic skills is that the spell schools are different in terms of usage and nature. Oh, remember MM8!

[BMJedi]

If this was true, any child would be able to blow the world up when he imagines he can do so. The only reason why there are different magic skills is that the spell schools are different in terms of usage and nature.

While the point you raise is a good one, I would answer that one imagines that accessing the magic "energy matrix", or whatever you want to call it, requires a disciplined, well-practiced set of skills.

Therefore, in my interpretation of Enroth, anyone including a gifted child CAN access magic, at least at a low level, but doing so is not easy. The majority of people do not have the necessary willingness to engage in hours of boring, tedious book study (for wielding elemental magic) or meditation (for wielding self magic).

The ability to cast basic level magic is then very rare in the population because of the difficulty involved - your average Joe is going to just laugh and throw up his hands and say, "Meh, I can kill goblins just as easily with a good sword as with a firebolt."

And the ability to cast magic at expert, master, or grandmaster level is exceedingly rare. One could imagine that only 1% of the population even has the potential to wield 'magical' energy at grandmaster level, and even fewer of those would have the patience to go through the years of study and practice required.

And going back to Macros' point, the cultural structure of language and thought would have a profound influence on the variety of disciplines and useages of magic understood by the intelligentsia of Enroth.

[Avonu]

Divine Intervention is Light Magic, not Self. Light Magic is part of Elemental Magic, iirc.

No. Mirrored Path (light and Dark magic) is magic which can learn only masters of elemental or self magic (according to MM6 and MM7). In MM8 Light magic is improved of self magic only. In MM9 Lich and Mage can learn both them but master only dark or light side.
In MM3-5 Divine Intervention was part of Cleric spells - not Mage or Druid spells.

But anyway, regardless I would say that Light Magic gains power from the Sun, and Dark Magic from the Moon.

Nope. You can cast Armageddon in day, dawn, night or dusk, same with light spells. However there are some spells which requeired specify conditions like shining of sun (I wonder if weather changes were in game then Sunray will work when sky was cloudy? ;P) or of moon.

However, what could also be the case is that the ancients use some kind of power grid that allows the use of control of the substance that the universe is made from (alike quantum mechanics).

Interesting idea but no.
First we have dimensions - Plane of Chaos, Plane of Fire, Plane of Air, Plane of Water, Plane of Earth, First Mater... not that game ;P - galaxy with Xeen, Enroth, Axeoth and many, many others worlds.
And "energy" from these dimension was used by Ancients to for example Unite both side of Xeen. Another example was Escaton - energy of elementals had to destroy (and rebuild) Enroth.
But more important is this:




Much more information about MM History, Ancients, Creators, the Kreegan and many more you can find here.

[Khilara]

Avonu- Thank you for posting the link to that thread- Have been curious to know more about the history of the MM world as I've only played MM6-MM8 (Can't seem to find MM1-5 for sale anywhere?).

As for the original topic of blaster/technology in the game... I love it. I doubt that I would love these games this much without that aspect present. It adds depth and a sense of wonder to the games

From what I've read, the sci-fi/fantasy blending is much stronger in MM1-5... any tips on where those can be found? (bought, not pirated)

[mkienenb]

In my opinion, the best place to buy it is here as a digital download:

http://www.gog.com/en/gamecard/might_an ... ed_edition

You get MM1 through MM6 for one low price, you can install it legally on as many machines as you like, and you can always go back and redownload it later if you need to.

[Khilara]

Thank you!

[Sure Valla]

In my opinion, the best place to buy it is here as a digital download:

http://www.gog.com/en/gamecard/might_an ... ed_edition

You get MM1 through MM6 for one low price, you can install it legally on as many machines as you like, and you can always go back and redownload it later if you need to.

Thank you very much!