To all the mathematicians and astrophysicists out there...

The role-playing games (I-X) that started it all and the various spin-offs (including Dark Messiah).
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Kareeah Indaga
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To all the mathematicians and astrophysicists out there...

Unread postby Kareeah Indaga » 11 Dec 2008, 23:02

Using what we know about the world of Enroth (24 hour day, 336 days in a year, four seasons roughly similar to our own, yellow sun, known and estimated distances between certain locations), is it possible to estimate the size of the planet?

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darknessfood
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Unread postby darknessfood » 12 Dec 2008, 00:26

I don't think so. It's beeing expanded all the time...
You can either agree with me, or be wrong...

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Unread postby Deadguy118 » 12 Dec 2008, 02:30

Wow, have we sunk so far? There must be something else to talk about. Hmmm... MMT is still as much a lifeless corpse as it was a year ago, no updates on any of the major fan projects, Ubisoft hasn't announced Heroes VI... Dang. I guess we do have nothing else to talk about.

Colony is of course as big as you want it to be. Since, after all, there will never be a game that uses that world. Of course, you could always say it's the same size as the earth.
Back from the dead? Maybe.

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Unread postby DarthVadre » 12 Dec 2008, 07:08

Unfortunately, no, since we don't know how far the sun is away. The bigger the planet, the further away it could be and still be warm.
Your perception determines your experience.

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Avonu
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Re: To all the mathematicians and astrophysicists out there.

Unread postby Avonu » 12 Dec 2008, 08:44

Kareeah Indaga wrote:Using what we know about the world of Enroth (24 hour day, 336 days in a year, four seasons roughly similar to our own, yellow sun, known and estimated distances between certain locations), is it possible to estimate the size of the planet?

If we know which speed have boats or horse travel in MM6-8 games, then we can estimate how long is Enroth or Antagarich (and we also have to know which are there trade routes). But it is possible to count.

At least continent Enroth should be three times larger then Antagarich - sea travel from AvLee to Evermorn Islands takes 7 days; sea travel from Castle Ironfist to Hermit's Isle takes 21 days; of course these are estimates without counting ocean currents, winds, pirates or sea monsters. ;)

We know also how much continent Enroth take of planet surface - we can estimate it from MM6 intro/outro.

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Unread postby DarthVadre » 12 Dec 2008, 19:05

But we have no clue how far away the sun really is, only a rough estimation. With everything being estimated, I doubt we could come up with an accurate size. In fact, chances are the size across different games contradicts each other.
Your perception determines your experience.

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Unread postby Corlagon » 12 Dec 2008, 20:41

I wouldn't think they should, since both Might and Magic and Heroes use the same time/date system, same sun and moon, same locations etc.

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Unread postby Avonu » 13 Dec 2008, 16:56

DarthVadre wrote:But we have no clue how far away the sun really is, only a rough estimation.
We don't know?
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:P

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Unread postby solitaire345 » 14 Dec 2008, 17:54

no, we don't. its earth in that picture. :P
i dont think it is possible to estimate size of planet using these facts, but it is something very similar to our earth. (because of 24 hour day, similar seasons and duration of year). i think it is a little more massive and closer to sun, but it is only a guess.

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Unread postby BMJedi » 20 Dec 2008, 01:14

solitaire345 wrote:no, we don't. its earth in that picture. :P
i dont think it is possible to estimate size of planet using these facts, but it is something very similar to our earth. (because of 24 hour day, similar seasons and duration of year). i think it is a little more massive and closer to sun, but it is only a guess.
They based time on the planet on the temptations that duped our own ancestors on ancient earth.

The ancient humans wanted to believe in a perfectly ordered world created by perfect gods or god, as evidenced by the observable heavens.

Thus, when inventing the calendar, their first temptation was that of the moon - the phases of the moon must reflect a perfect month of 28 days.

A perfect twelve of those months must therefore reflect a perfect year of the number of days from MM6.

Add in a perfect twelve zodiacal constellations through which the sun, moon and planets can travel. (The ancients knew nothing about the precession of equinoxes.)

Perfect time and perfect heavenly motion, now and forever, glory hallelujah, amen.

Unfortunately, it only took a few decades of using the 'perfect' calendar invented by the first humans recording history for them to notice that the seasons kept getting distressingly out of sync with their 'perfect' calendar.

It took several thousand years of recorded human history, right up into the Roman Empire and even into the Middle Ages (for the realization of the necessity of a leap year) before we got it right.

Might and Magic's time system merely reflects a romanticized throwback to a 'magickal' age in human history where one could imagine a perfect universe reflected in the heavens.

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Is Colony flat?

Unread postby archcorenth » 22 Dec 2008, 02:36

The worlds of Might and Magic I, II and III were all flat. If Colony is also flat it'd be as easy to figure out its size as to look at one of the maps that comes with the games.

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Furthermore...

Unread postby archcorenth » 22 Dec 2008, 02:43

Whether or not it's flat, I don't think the amount of days in a year, or the number of days per year or any thing like that would matter. It's definitely more along the lines of a space station than a planet and I suspect the sun and the seasons are both illusions.

And furthermore from there....
Even if it were a planet, data like how many days are in year wouldn't give information as to its size. The best way to figure it out would be simply to take distances we know from maps and figure that the equator is probably in the south of Jadame.

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Unread postby Avonu » 22 Dec 2008, 22:07

solitaire345 wrote:I think it is a little more massive and closer to sun, but it is only a guess.
I don't think this planet is closer to it's sun. Waters on Enroth are extremly cold, so everyone who wants to swim there is drowning. And this situation is everywhere on planet (Enroth, Jadame or Antagarich) so it isn't climate which cause this effect.

Also Xenn was 1,1 AU (1AU ~ 149 mln km) from it's sun and years on it were shorter then on Earth. Xeen also have average temperature 72 F (~23 oC) so it's very similar to Earth envioronment.

If someone want to estimate planet size, then I can tell that average ship speed on day (24h) (including ocean currents, no winds/windward, reefs, etc.) was about 6-7 knots (1kn = 1,852 km/h).
Royal yacht Queen Catherine needs 21 days to sail from Castle Ironfist (East of Enroth) to Hermit's Isle (West of Enroth) - but it was very fast ship and very dangerous sea route - and ship from AvLee (North of Antagarich) needs 7 days to sail Evenmorn Isle (South of AvLee). Also distance from Enroth to Antagarich is ~6 weeks sea travel (but not in streight line - travelling ships needs to avoid Regnan pirates).

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Unread postby XEL II » 23 Dec 2008, 11:10

BTW, the Spinward Rim is the real astrophysical term. It's the outer part of the galaxy's region (Spinward).

archcorenth, Terra wasn't flat.
Make you strong places to dwell and practice the evil of your arts. Build great monuments to stand through the ages and remind your followers of the task with which you have been charged. Use these halls of iniquity to perpetrate your schemes against the infestation that has taken the fields and lakes of this land from you, their rightful masters. Never forget the hatred that must finally overcome and consume mankind. Dwell in your dungeons and brood. - Sheltem the Dark

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Unread postby Qurqirish Dragon » 23 Dec 2008, 19:19

Avonu wrote:
Also Xenn was 1,1 AU (1AU ~ 149 mln km) from it's sun and years on it were shorter then on Earth. Xeen also have average temperature 72 F (~23 oC) so it's very similar to Earth envioronment.
Actually, given this, then we definitely CANNOT calculate anything. If a planet orbits at 1.1 AU, then it should have a (stellar) year of about 1.15 earth years (Using Kepler's equation T^2 = R^3, where T is the orbital period in earth-years, and R is the mean orbital radius in AUs), so if the distance is larger, and the period is shorter, than the physics of the M&M universe differs from ours.

As a side note, if we used the 336 day year, we would get a distance of about 0.95 AUs, again using Kepler.

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Unread postby Corlagon » 23 Dec 2008, 20:08

Perhaps the people of Xeen base their days and years on something separate from our own calendars... I'm pretty certain that their world doesn't rotate.

Deyja

Unread postby Deyja » 23 Dec 2008, 20:33

Corlagon wrote:Perhaps the people of Xeen base their days and years on something separate from our own calendars... I'm pretty certain that their world doesn't rotate.
Maby it does rotate but its sure that it did not before World of Xeen game :devious:

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Unread postby XEL II » 24 Dec 2008, 18:37

There is a day cycle on pre-WoX XEEN, so why would it not rotate?
Make you strong places to dwell and practice the evil of your arts. Build great monuments to stand through the ages and remind your followers of the task with which you have been charged. Use these halls of iniquity to perpetrate your schemes against the infestation that has taken the fields and lakes of this land from you, their rightful masters. Never forget the hatred that must finally overcome and consume mankind. Dwell in your dungeons and brood. - Sheltem the Dark

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Unread postby Corlagon » 24 Dec 2008, 18:45

Actually, a lot about the entire concept of a world like Xeen makes no sense if translated into this universe...

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Unread postby XEL II » 24 Dec 2008, 19:02

It can have a different way of rotating than the spherical planets or something like that. After all, days were twilight on the Darkside IIRC.
Make you strong places to dwell and practice the evil of your arts. Build great monuments to stand through the ages and remind your followers of the task with which you have been charged. Use these halls of iniquity to perpetrate your schemes against the infestation that has taken the fields and lakes of this land from you, their rightful masters. Never forget the hatred that must finally overcome and consume mankind. Dwell in your dungeons and brood. - Sheltem the Dark


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