Should the Merchant skill effect the whole party?

The role-playing games (I-X) that started it all and the various spin-offs (including Dark Messiah).
The Genius
Leprechaun
Leprechaun
Posts: 10
Joined: 03 Apr 2008

Should the Merchant skill effect the whole party?

Unread postby The Genius » 10 Apr 2008, 08:24

I say this mainly because in MM7, You always have the same party and they always go everywhere together. If you all walk into a shop, wouldn't the party's merchant advise everyone on the best price?

This would eliminate the need to leave stores to shift items to the one with the highest skill.

Most people only have one merchant expert so would it effect the game too much to make it effect the whole party?

User avatar
Bimbasto
Scout
Scout
Posts: 196
Joined: 10 Mar 2008
Location: In different locations

Unread postby Bimbasto » 10 Apr 2008, 08:34

This is done in the Mod Rev4. Everybody has Merchant Expert 6 after drinking "special liquid". I found it convienient. Agree with you.

User avatar
Ravenheart87
Scout
Scout
Posts: 165
Joined: 18 Dec 2006
Location: Gyor, Hungary

Unread postby Ravenheart87 » 10 Apr 2008, 09:23

What about becoming a loyal costumer in the game? If you often return to the same shop, you would get some price reduction, or you could buy items, which normal costumers can't. You could also increase your realation with the merchant by telling him to keep the change... :creative:

User avatar
darknessfood
Round Table Hero
Round Table Hero
Posts: 4009
Joined: 02 Jul 2007
Location: Netherlands
Contact:

Unread postby darknessfood » 10 Apr 2008, 13:51

Well, i don't think so. Might and Magic is building your characters in a way that each one is unique. How would you like it if a knight can cast Armageddon (well, stupid axample but what if), that makes the lich WAY less special then it already is. Yeah it's conveniant, but it also brings down the strong factor of the game...
You can either agree with me, or be wrong...

The Genius
Leprechaun
Leprechaun
Posts: 10
Joined: 03 Apr 2008

Unread postby The Genius » 10 Apr 2008, 14:23

darknessfood wrote:Well, i don't think so. Might and Magic is building your characters in a way that each one is unique. How would you like it if a knight can cast Armageddon (well, stupid axample but what if), that makes the lich WAY less special then it already is. Yeah it's conveniant, but it also brings down the strong factor of the game...
I do understand what you're saying here and you're right your example wasn't the best. This isn't about having someone do something outside the realm of their class. The Merchant skill is fairly benign in that it does not directly effect gameplay other than to make journeys to shops a little less tedious. Much different than having a knight cast spells.

You would still have to have someone level up in the skill to benefit so it doesn't make the skill redundant, nor is it truly a cheat due to the fact that the guy with the high merchant skill never leaves your party. If the character with the skill was dead or otherwise incapacitated, the party would/should lose that ability until they are revived.

Much like bags of holding in other games, I just think this would be something that improves the game rather than spending time micro managing inventories and repeatedly leaving a shop just to pass the goods you want to sell to the correct party member.

User avatar
darknessfood
Round Table Hero
Round Table Hero
Posts: 4009
Joined: 02 Jul 2007
Location: Netherlands
Contact:

Unread postby darknessfood » 10 Apr 2008, 14:36

Yeah, it's tedious, but that tediousity is a part of the game, that's what makes it classic. I don't think that it's fair either that a cleric, or whatever, can sell his/her goods at about the same price as a master merchant, it doesn't make any sense AT ALL! Well, maybe a little bit, but not a whole lot...
You can either agree with me, or be wrong...

User avatar
Ya5MieL
Marksman
Marksman
Posts: 428
Joined: 06 Jan 2006
Location: Kutjevo, Croatia

Unread postby Ya5MieL » 10 Apr 2008, 16:02

This is nice idea, but i would "depict" it differently. Imagine that your highest merchant fella is selling the equipment for their comrades, even if it is in their backpacks. (contrary to all characters getting merchant boost).

Same should be for many other misc skills (i.e. it would be enough for one member to spot a trap for all of them to know there is one, so the merchant should work the same way, also, repair would be conducted by your best repairman, without need for it to be in his inventory, after all, he can fix stuff someone is wearing on spot)

User avatar
Corribus
Round Table Knight
Round Table Knight
Posts: 4994
Joined: 06 Jan 2006
Location: The Duchy of Xicmox IV

Unread postby Corribus » 10 Apr 2008, 16:26

darknessfood wrote:Yeah, it's tedious, but that tediousity is a part of the game, that's what makes it classic. I don't think that it's fair either that a cleric, or whatever, can sell his/her goods at about the same price as a master merchant, it doesn't make any sense AT ALL! Well, maybe a little bit, but not a whole lot...
I think the point is that, just to make things less tedious, the game could assume that, when you go into a store, the person with the highest merchant skill automatically does all the negotiating, regardless of who actually hands the seller the cash and puts the item in his backpack. If it bypassed the tedium of thousands of mouse clicks just to buy and sell all merchandise through a single NPC, I'd be all for it.
"What men are poets who can speak of Jupiter if he were like a man, but if he is an immense spinning sphere of methane and ammonia must be silent?" - Richard P. Feynman

The Genius
Leprechaun
Leprechaun
Posts: 10
Joined: 03 Apr 2008

Unread postby The Genius » 11 Apr 2008, 07:32

darknessfood wrote:Yeah, it's tedious, but that tediousity is a part of the game, that's what makes it classic. I don't think that it's fair either that a cleric, or whatever, can sell his/her goods at about the same price as a master merchant, it doesn't make any sense AT ALL! Well, maybe a little bit, but not a whole lot...
I'd completely agree with your point if your party ever split up but MM7 is more about managing a group than role playing one character in a cast of four.

For example, perception helps you spot hidden doors but only one of your party has to have a high perception for the effect to take place. However, if the party sets off a trap, only the high perception character would have a good chance at avoiding damage. That's exactly what I mean by saying benign. It isn't game breaking to have merchant as a global factor but if things like disarm trap were global I believe it would be.

I certainly don't want to remove anything about the game that makes it classic and I don't think this is something that would do it. This is only my opinion after all. I don't have the time nor the skill to try to mod this out so I guess it doesn't matter all that much.

User avatar
darknessfood
Round Table Hero
Round Table Hero
Posts: 4009
Joined: 02 Jul 2007
Location: Netherlands
Contact:

Unread postby darknessfood » 11 Apr 2008, 09:15

Well, you don't actualy have to make it to bring up a discussion about it. I just wanted you to see that it's merchant only and no other skilles or anything. But maybe if a modmaker is willing to make it, that would be awesome, BUT,i do think that there should be going off some skill points from the characters overall, because otherwise it would NOT be fair...
You can either agree with me, or be wrong...

The Genius
Leprechaun
Leprechaun
Posts: 10
Joined: 03 Apr 2008

Unread postby The Genius » 11 Apr 2008, 13:52

darknessfood wrote:Well, you don't actualy have to make it to bring up a discussion about it. I just wanted you to see that it's merchant only and no other skilles or anything. But maybe if a modmaker is willing to make it, that would be awesome, BUT,i do think that there should be going off some skill points from the characters overall, because otherwise it would NOT be fair...
This definitely only applies to the merchant skill. I think using the same factor for something like repair would be wrong due to the fact that weapons break in combat. I don't think it's as plausible to believe that you'd hand your weapon off to the best repair person in the middle of the fight.

There's no real conflicts of interest in regards to the Merchant skill as it's only used for one thing and to be honest, is only a time saving device.

What do you mean about going off skill points from a characters overall? As in they should at least have some skill points allocated to merchant? I was going on the assumption that most people (like myself) would have only one character put skill points aside for merchant.

The Genius
Leprechaun
Leprechaun
Posts: 10
Joined: 03 Apr 2008

Unread postby The Genius » 11 Apr 2008, 13:54

Corribus wrote: I think the point is that, just to make things less tedious, the game could assume that, when you go into a store, the person with the highest merchant skill automatically does all the negotiating, regardless of who actually hands the seller the cash and puts the item in his backpack. If it bypassed the tedium of thousands of mouse clicks just to buy and sell all merchandise through a single NPC, I'd be all for it.
I didn't acknowledge this post before but this is exactly what my point is. You spend time managing inventory when the time could be better spent getting a promotion or playing Arcomage.

User avatar
Corribus
Round Table Knight
Round Table Knight
Posts: 4994
Joined: 06 Jan 2006
Location: The Duchy of Xicmox IV

Unread postby Corribus » 11 Apr 2008, 16:33

And of course, if your merchant character was dead, then you wouldn't get the benefits of his skill when purchasing something (the 2nd best merchant would determine the transaction) until you raised the dead dude. Seems very logical and reasonable to me. I always hated funnelling every transaction through one character.
"What men are poets who can speak of Jupiter if he were like a man, but if he is an immense spinning sphere of methane and ammonia must be silent?" - Richard P. Feynman

User avatar
BMJedi
Conscript
Conscript
Posts: 241
Joined: 06 Jan 2006
Location: Chattanooga, TN

Unread postby BMJedi » 20 Apr 2008, 20:13

darknessfood wrote:Yeah, it's tedious, but that tediousity is a part of the game, that's what makes it classic. I don't think that it's fair either that a cleric, or whatever, can sell his/her goods at about the same price as a master merchant, it doesn't make any sense AT ALL! Well, maybe a little bit, but not a whole lot...
On the issue of the cleric being the grandmaster merchant and the skill being personality based, I usually just imagine it that the MM world is a highly devout pagan society where priests of various deities are revered and respected, and the shopkeepers probably consider it good luck and traditional to offer discounts to priests.

Also, I'm playing with ModRev4 currently, and I find the gift of MerchantExpert6 to the whole party to be a welcome convenience - no more constantly remembering to make sure that all merchandise gets put in my cleric's inventory before selling, at least in the early game!

User avatar
Macros the Black
Druid
Druid
Posts: 897
Joined: 21 May 2008
Location: Elemental Plane of Air

Unread postby Macros the Black » 01 Nov 2008, 11:42

Yes. Imo, Merchant, Repair, Diplomacy, etc should all work for the entire party. It just saves time..
Also, Repair should only work when out of combat (green ready button) imo. Otherwise, what's the point of items breaking?

User avatar
Variol
Wraith
Wraith
Posts: 1269
Joined: 05 Sep 2008

Unread postby Variol » 01 Nov 2008, 14:26

Oh, heck yes!


Return to “Might and Magic”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 69 guests