Might and Magic X proposal from a diffrent point of View

The role-playing games (I-X) that started it all and the various spin-offs (including Dark Messiah).

Moderator: Moderators

User avatar
White Wizard
Leprechaun
Leprechaun
Posts: 28
Joined: 27 Jan 2006

Might and Magic X proposal from a diffrent point of View

Postby White Wizard » Nov 21 2007, 22:40

What made M&M so great?chosing a path/alliance? good/evil?or going your own way?solving quest,entering dungeons full of secrets?Possibility to betray some characters?to chose what becomes of your characters made Might and Magic great as it was (VI till VIII)

The portrets in M&M
The portrets spices up M&M,making it more interactive.In the previous games you had serveral portrets but there wasn't alot of interaction between them and the characters seemed very neutral/statue like.Now each portret is an"interview screen" like in a reality soap were everyone comes to tell how the day went/complain about their fellow companion in certain situations as death,insane,drunk,disease...If a mages spell goes wrong and hurts a companion,the other responds with something like:"watch what you're doing amateur"..for example..Wich means the portret will have a surplus value for the interactions ingame.Their will be relational talk and acknowledgment between characters in the party.If someone got a powerfull wand/beautifull artifact,he she will pose with it proudly on occasion,or hit a companion on the head(when aggressive for instance).characters will have the possibilty to partly enter each others portret,lean on the border of the portret etc.So when you drop a small nice thing form male to female character inventory,and she likes him,she will lean on towards him and say something like "you'll always be my sugerpie"
In the beginning of the game you can set some preferences for how the characters act: hysterical,hypercinetic,aggressive,passive,dim,silly,rightreous,smart,serious,sarcastic,stupid,crazy...
Characters will be possitionable,allowed to switch places.
It becomes like a puppetry show

Party

4 Main Characters
2 slot free for a villagers/mercaneries (freed prisoners,...can always join no matter if you already have 2 hired)
Pets are summonable(alliance and race restricted)

Game Dificulties
Easy:old fashioned hack and slash
Meduim:when creatures respawn they will set up defences
Hard:creatures semi scale to your level
Insane: Monsters do extra damage, monsters scale slightly higher than your level.

Monsters
Will be more biological correct(speed,way of movement,...) have better AI
Better difined body shapes,possibility to hit some bodyparts,stun/disable creatures(a skill with x procent chance of succeeding per level)Monsters have a "nature":some are agressive,other cowardly,....
Turn based is still an option.

Monster droppings
-You can upgrade items with the same item type
-creature bodies have images of carrying items,so that you can easily judge if there is anything worthwhile upon the body.
-1 mouseclick:just collect money
-2 mouseclick:examine it's body-to loot/or to hide crime/...

Quests
Quests are meant to assist in defining your character
It creates a situation where you must come to an understanding of what is happening before applying your own decision or making your own judgment,and some quest must be implemented in a way your can't make a decision undone by just loading an earlier savegame.There will be multiple methodes of quest achievement.
beside the usaul quests in RPG's(deliver/get something,kill someone,get object(s),....)
there will be other quests:
-some are class/race specific and require special skill(s) to be accompliced.
for instance someone could ask your gadgeteer to build a hot air balloon,or an inkeeper could ask your bard to perform...
when yo perform well that character can become famous,a way to get in contact with Npc's who have more powers.
-some were you don't know if they are right or wrong or even "true",quests with betrayals,...Some Npc's wanna help you,others wanne trick(with ambush,posoined gifts,...)
-some to get to a place only known from tales/sometimes those places exist:and then there are unique things ,creatures,objects,herbs,...to get there will then only be possible if you build the hot air balloon for instance.
for other places you need a specific druid promotion,in the end it is impossible to get to all those rare places in the same game.
-puzzle quests;need a piece of one quest to solve the next/other one.
-quests with a time limit.
-investigations
-strategical quests
-promotion quests
-quest were you have responsibilities:to organize an event,were you lead a project....
Enough quests types/specific path quests/sub quests... for a replayable entertaining game.

Storyline
Non linear,with very little linearity

-Just like in the old M&M games you will have the possibility to advance your character by following a certain path,
solving quests ,gaining new titles and powerfull skills as you develop in the game
-Or you can make the choice to let your character transform and develop his/her "special gifts"
The transformations will be available during the game.Some of them just take time(like a level up system)others require a ritual and/or certain sacrificement to be accompliced.

Clothes and Objects
the ability to dress your character like you want it dissapeared in M&MIX
wich is ofcours a big nono! M&M is a bit like playing with barbie.
your creative,... ;) mind must have the neccesary dress options to be satisfied.you gotta luv your characters!
there should be more alliance related objects:To show your devotion,if wanted..perhaps they can add some comic stuff if you have to do special quest in dresscode like going to a gala :p

Item Values
The value of items will be balanced enough you can't get extremely rich in short period.
The value of common items you find alot in M&MX will be lower,Buying those will be a little bit more expensive.
Upgrading items with the same item type will increase the value a bit.
Rare and Valuable items are not easy to find and can't be upgraded
Creating a more long term way of the player managing the his money

SKILLS

players will be able to equipe their characters with any clothes,juwelry,disguise,even armour/weopon (according to the classes.)
Some classes can't get better at certain things but they can wear it,depending on the class it could bring penalties with it.(for instance if the mage uses a plate armour)
So weopons and armour,... work more like an attribute:
By using a weopon type you would increase the "skill" in that weopon.
In this way you can't distribute skillpoint anymore like it always has been in M&M,as you earn them by "acting" towards the new level(for example you fight alot with the sword so thats were get better at when leveling up.)
When leveling up you can choice a new "usage style" with the weopon/a new way to increase the durability of spells/new way to disguise yourself,...The level up style would be "learn to use things" literally,meanwhile learning new ways to use it and other tricks with it(were level ups will be more about:chosing a new way to use

Clothes:robe,pants,trousers,gloves
Disguise:make up,mask,wig,cloak,racial uniforms(particular items correspond to each other to make an outfit of some sort? IE. Erathian royal plate armour, Erathian royal guard’s gauntlets, Earathian royal guard’s halberd etc)
Juwelleryboth the ability to wear and create for gadgeteer):rings,bracelets,crowns,helmets,amulets,piercings

Armour:leather,plate,chain,shield,...
Weapons:sword,staff,mace,axe,bow,spear,dagger,...
Magic:Air,earth,water,fire,mind,spirit,body,light,dark,...
Other:perception,armsmaster,meditation,merchant,body building,unarmed,learning,disarm traps,....

more class specific skills and atributes are listed in the promotion section below

CLASSES
Here are the 6 basic classes to chose from and all the promotions
All will have special atributes,and sometimes they gain some typical objects for that title as a reward for the quest.Ofcours promotions are race/alignment restricted.

KNIGHT
Starting attribute:melee,power attack
Inventory option:place to sharpen weapons
RTS mode speciality:authority
Initiate roles:
-Warrior
-crusader
-initiate
-transformation

Champion-----retaliation,divine guidance,Last stand,proud
Dread Knight-----Dreadful Countenance,devour strenght,Malice,Ominous fate
Paladin-----Aura's,magical resistance,Detection(of magic,traps,truth,..a paladin knows when someone is lying),sympathize
Commander-----tactics,evasion,leadership,preparation(turn based each of party moves first)
Gladiator-------dual weapon(can use 2 weapons,wether it are axes,spears,swords)Piercing damage,adrenaline,vitality
Barbarian------stunning blow,beast within,might over magic,battlecry
Lord-----health regeneration,disintoxication(faster recovery),nobility,purifying blood
Sammurai-------katane,mental dicipline,warden circle(swift blades deflecting any missle attacks),third eye(When active, the next physical attack is evaded)
Dragonslayer------fire resistance,challenges(gaines extra xp by attacking higher level),handle animal,scalp dragon
Elite Guard------lawsuit,racial uniform,call gaurds,bluff
______________________________________________________________

THIEF
starting attribute:pickpocket,critical hit
Inventory option:lockpicks can be used in the disarm traps and lockpicking section
RTS mode speciality:negotiation
Initiate roles:
-rogue
-agent
-initiate
-transformation

Villian------sabotage,connections,corruption(gains extra skill points if you handle quests like a bad guy),deceive
Assasin------Mark of death,assasin's promise,seeping wound(monster health degeneration),unsuspecting strike
Bard-----instruments,Perform,empathy,lore
Spy------decode,learn secret,disguise,hide crime
Robber-----blackjack(knock citizens unconcious+loot),smuggle(extra inventory option),contribution(robber contributes extra money to party each month:depending on level),
Avaricious(when your party dies you'll lose less money)
Shadowdancer-----lunar guidance(more powerfull at night),dark empowerment(ally target stronger dark spells),illusionism(double image,...),the lotus
Prowler(panther transformation)----------overwhelm,physical perfection,panther leap,predator
Jester---------magical cards(slightly skilled in magic),entertain,bootlicker,fool(when acting with this character it won't affect reputation)
Seducer--------seduce,innocence,drug,sex appeal
Pirate----------nagotiation,geography(pathfinding),skullduggery,flogging

_________________________________________________________

RANGER
Starting attribute:ranged combat,search(constantly)
Inventory option:dig for objects(some rare objects are buried and can only be attained with a ranger)
RTS mode Speciality:investigation
Initiate roles:
-hunter
-adventurer
-initiate
-transformation

Master Hunter-----intuition,trace,avenger,survival
Marksman-----Double shot,concentration,focus,parry
Sniper-------precision,eagle eye,distance shot,magical arrows
Beastmaster----Beast mastery,beast within,peacefull night(can't be amushed)identify monsters(unique)
Hero----courage,connections,justify(receive extra skill points if you handle quests like a good guy)benediction
Gadgeteer-----repair items(unique)gadget making(mix objects),creativity,beautify
Witchhunter-------witchcraft ward,judgement,destroy corruption,Interrogation
Cannibal---------consume corpse,life essence,cooking,biology(knows lot about the bodyplaces/functions and can us this as advantage)
Mercenary--------axe mastery,accountability(you're the first persone people would ask for favours) ,highest bidder,bounty hunt(gaining extra benefits from)
Werewolf-------nocturnal rage,howl,faster aging,regeneration

_______________________________________________________

CLERIC
starting attribute:resistance(poison,disease,..),sef magical immunity
Inventory option:extra place to bless/curse items
RTS mode speciality:reputation
Initiate roles:
-priest
-healer
-apprentice
-transformation

High Priest-----weather controle(sour rain,sunray) cleaning nova(dispell all magic+silence),telepathy(unique),twilight(knows some rare spells)when this character dies it will be an eclips
Priest of Light-----Exorcism,shrug darkness,master of blessings,prayer
Priest of Darkness----posses,shrug light,master of curses,dark gifted
Heretic----Demonology,pyromancy,sacrifice,voodoo(can select a target,when in other city get his voodoodoll and nobody will know you killed/disabled that target)
Ninja----unarmed,thrown criticals,powders(fog,irritation,...)Martial Arts
Zaelot----unarmed,purify,Artifacts(ability to use the powers of ancient relics,artifacts others can't)Spiritual Attunement(when someone of the party heals you,you automatically receive mana too)
Valkyrie-----cheat death,Gallantry,regeneration,fury
Monk-----stone fist,teach,self-defence,concentration
Ritualist-----invoke ritual,binding ritual,spawning,incense
Zenmaster------self immunity,warrior stands,sun salutation,balance
Bishop-------remove cursed item,divine,requiem(Disables preemptive attack from surrounding undead monsters) anti magic
________________________________________________________

DRUID
Starting attribute:druidic oath(gets some bonuses if they stick on to this oath,or penalty if they do not stick to the oath
,activate(druid circles,teleports(if there are any),ritual circles
Inventory option:teleport items to HQ
RTS speciality:creation
Initiate roles:
-greater druid
-Naturist
-apprentice
-transformation

High Druid------primal bond,Owl’s Wisdom,Bear’s Endurance,Bull’s Strength
Shaman---camouflage,herbalism,True Seeing(character sees through Ethereal and Invisibility effects),natures wrath(all natural beings do more damage)
Gaurdian----shapeshifter(cave bear,dire wolf,...),naturale balance,immunity,gaurd(take damage for ally)
Mystic-----mysticism,unknown secrets(makes ethreal effects stronger,also secrets of dreams),body controle(have monster npc's do things for you like set of traps,...commanders are powerless against this skill),dreameater
Witchdoctor------witchcraft(shrink/transform enemy creatures),ritualism,spirit bag(can prison elements and suck their powers,transforming them in exta hp,resistance etc)occult(brew things with unique effects,extra inventory option)
Runemaster -----runelore(runes of corruption:take more mana for an enemie spellcaster,Rune of banish:dismiss a summoned creature,rune of protection),rune armour,scribe body(effect of rune more powerfull,something like quickspell)hammer(ony the runemasters can use this weopon)
Herbalist---------harvest(herbs),medicines,green fingers,plant growth(manipulation)
Shapeshifter-----------polymorph self,polymorph creature,True Shapeshift(also atributes from the creature),Speak language(of any creature)
Faun(satyr transformation)-------------panflure,rootstrap(are held in place by the roots till the character dies/or get disabled...),overgrow,create maze
Revenant-------consume nature,wither,avenge,unleash
____________________________________________________________

SORCERER
Starting attribute:magical armour,sorcery
Inventory option:enchanting items and magical experiment/mess with the effectivness of items
RTS mode speciality:manipulation
Initiate roles:
-mage
-necromancer
-apprentice
-transformation

Lich---(transformation)mana tap,dark container,soulforge,powerspell(eyes glow red and spells do 50% more damage)
Overlord----(transformation)Fiendcraft,gating,demonseed,devil form
Archmage-----Arcane (excellence,omniscience,...)magic mirror,mark of the wizard,sorcery
Alchemist-------alchemy(alchemy bench also extra inventory option),consume artifact,science(change effects en effectivness of potions)bomb throwing
Elementalist-----summon(element covers your character,can't hit your character until the element is defeated),
Communing(connection with elements),orb(unique weapon of the elementalist),energy(power of summoning,damage the orb does,...)
Warlock------dark ritual,destruction(increase effect of all damaging spells),counterspell,sap magic(magic damage by enemy reduced by 20 procent)
Battlemage------staff&arms,blunt,block,heavy armour
Spellsword(acrobatic wizard)------willpower,acrobacy,parry,swordmenship
Animist------animate,soulgift,chanelling,controle
Oracle-----time manipulation(time magic),visions,Omnipresence,trance

RACES
Each races weakness,abilities and
promotions, transformations, pets are restricted too

HUMANS

Transformations:lich,Zombie,Nosferatu,overlord,centaur,minotaur,orc
Pets:griffin
Racial abilities:diplomacy,religion,handiness
Racial weakness:mind spells,diseases
Buildings:improvement

Promotions
Knight(champion,dread knight,dragonslayer)
Thief (pirate,jester,robber)
Ranger(master hunter,werewolf,hero)
Cleric(high priest,valkyrie)
Druid(gaurdian)
sorcerer(archmage,lich,battlemage)

ELVES

Transformations:Gorgon,siren,faun
Pets:unicorn,pegasus,phoenix,elements
Racial abilities:,growth,magical affinity,fast mana regeneration
Racial weakness:iron weaponary,dark spells
Buildings:decoration

Promotions
Knight(elite guard,sammurai,paladin)
Thief (seducer)
Ranger(master hunter,beastmaster)
Cleric(high priest,priest of light,zaelot)
Druid(high druid,herbalist,shapeshifter)
sorcerer(archmage,elementalist,spellsword)

DARK ELVES

Transformations:Banshee,naga¨
Pets:evil eye
Racial abilities:wither,magical affinity,visions
Racial weakness:light spells,iron weoponary
Buildings:decoration

Promotions
Knight(elite gaurd,sammurai,dread knight)
Thief (shadowdancer,prowler)
Ranger(sniper,mercenary)
Cleric(priest of darkness,ninja,zenmaster)
Druid(mystic,witchdoctor,revenant)
sorcerer(warlock,overlord)

FAERIES
Transformation:wishmaster
Pets:treant
Racial ablility:consume magic,fly naturally,poison and diseases immunity
Racial weakness:intense heat and cold
Buildings:luxery assesoires and "natural environment" gardens,...

Promotions
Knight(Paladin)
Thief(seducer,bard,spy)
Ranger(beastmaster,gadgeteer,marksman)
Cleric(priest of light,bishop,valkyrie)
Druid(shaman,mystic,shapeshifter)
Sorcerer(elementalist,spellsword,animist)

extra racial promotion for female pixies:fairy godmother(only character who can wield a magical wand,grandmaster perfumier,...)

DWARFS

Transformations:Zombie
Pets:none combative pets
Racial ability:forge,inexhaustibility(bonus endurance),heavy weoponary
Racial weakness:drowning,poor eyesight
Buildings:renovation and defences

Promotions
Knight(commander,lord,barbarian)
Thief(pirate,jester,bard)
Ranger(mercenary,hero,witchhunter)
Cleric(zaelot,monk,zenmaster)
Druid(high druid,runemaster)
sorcerer(battlemage)

GOBLINS
Transformation:doomharpy
Pets:basilisk(witchdoctor)
Racial ability:
Racial weakness:
Buildings:traps for buildings

Promotions
Knight(gladiator,commander)
Thief (villian,assasin)
Ranger(sniper,gadgeteer,cannibal)
Cleric(priest of darkness,ritualist,ninja)
Druid(witchdoctor,revenant)
sorcerer(warlock,alchemist)

HALFLINGS
Transformation:troll
pets:Non-combative pets(cats,wolf,...)
Racial ability:keen hearing,saving trows,hide
Racial weakness:manipulation of mind
Buildings:comfort

Promotions
knight(champion,lord)
Thief(spy,shadowdancer)
Ranger(witchhunter,werewolf)
Cleric(heretic,monk,bishop)
Druid(herbalist,faun)
Sorecerer:(alchemist,animist,oracle)

HALF ORCS
Transformation:ogre,orc
Pets:wyvern
Racial ability:battle rage,bash,hardiness(resistance to stun,...)
Racial weakness:low starting intelligence value,their aggressive ways make them socially weak with other races(diplomacy and stuff)
Building:demolition

Promotions
knight(barbarian,gladiator,dragonslayer)
thief(assassin,robber,villian)
ranger(marksman,cannibal)
cleric(heretic,ritualist,ninja)
druid(shaman,gaurdian,runemaster)
sorcerer(lich,overlord,oracle)

CHARACTERS CREATION
You can spend some points on the following

Might
vitality
Intelligence
Personality
endurance
accuracy
dexterity
luck

each race has diffrent starting values...
Chosing for male or female will also make a minor diffrence in those values:
Males have more might and endurance
Female have more accuracy and Intelligence

you can still give characters any name

Shape:faces and body parts,colour hair,eyes,lenght, every bodypart can be costumized..
condition:fat-average-atletic-fit-slim affects things like endurance,vitality,..

there will be some standart characters available(like in previous M&M games) if you want to skip this part.
Each race will have a standart male-female model to make editing a bit easier

PERSONALITY
Each race will have some standard settings wich could be costumized.
social
cheerfull
courteous
sympathic
sarcastic
shy
sadistic
honest
hysterical
hypercinetic
aggressive
rightreous
addiction(alcohole,...)
faith(in life,oneself,others)

good---------evil
sane------------crazy
smart---------dumb(in behavior)
clear----------dim
realistic----------naive
serene-----------drama queen
graceful----------clumsy
expansive--------kept back
altruism---------ego centric
believable-----------ambitious(goals in life cyclus will be more effective)
friendly-----impolite
humble-------------arrogant
involved-----indiffrent
mature------immature
modest------vain
optimistic------pessimistic
serious-----silly
encourage whats necessary-----------convenient
dynamic------------passive
open for improvement--------self satisfied
develope self (how able the character is to change personality during game)---------stays the same(during whole game)

Birthsigns
Birthsigns are to distinguish the party members from each other a bit more.
It's not just a bonus,will tell more about the characters background,maybe even personality,also will have some effects ingame.
some have boosts for mage,fighter,thiefs,..
sometimes also a disadvantage is connected to it..
some signs are kinda neutral,or for any character type good)
Every month a specific sign will also get a small bonus,penalty,or there will be a special event...


Biological Bodyscreen
Beside the character screen with visible equipment there will be a biological bodyscreen
With visible organs,skeleton and recieved body specific damage and stuff

-flesh colour means everything functions properly
-Golden means that part is very active)brains:when very intelligent for instance,heart and or lungs when you have a good shape,genitale area when fertility is high and attracted to someone,...some are permanent,others periodical...
-yellow:lightly damaged/in no good condition
-green:poisoned,diseased
-grey:a rare condition,virus,if you're character becomes an undeath or vampire too
-red:badly damaged,malfunctioning
-black:inactive,disabled,broken(when it's an important organ it can result in death if you wait too long to heal)
totally black when dead

Also transformations sometimes gain new body parts,organs(or they lose some of them)... a quest is involved for transformations or curing viruses.

Condition of the body affects vitality,endurance,speed,....
When you resurrect a character the black parts will return to yellow,and it will take time to fuction with full capacity again,but if it was golden(very active) it will eventually become golden agian if it wasn't a temporarly effect but because of a characters attribute.Gaining beter armour and more hp/strenght,some skilltypes decreases the chances your body will get damaged quickly.Some herbs/potions in the game can make certain organs and body parts very active temporarily,increase condition etc....


Needs
in previous M&M games there were only the need to sleep/eat.
Now also the age you'll chose for a character makes diffrence because every phase of growing up will have needs,"goals" and gain extra skill points or bonuses if those are satisfied...some can unlock new quests or even new possibilities ingame!

Teenager 18 (excitment and adventure)
Young Adult till 25 (responsability,mating,indipendence)
Adult till 50 (wealth,romance,carreer)
Elder 50+ (knowledge,faith,social contact,environmental satisfaction:older characters will gain a bonus if it goes to their likings)

Turn on's and turn offs(set fetishes)
When your character reaches the age of a young adult/or starts in this phase
you're character will be able to select 3 turn on's and turn offs
A specific personality,experience,specific type of clothes/armour,a specific class type,objects,make up,race types,rich peoples,older/younger,gendertype,undeath,...everything is possible.this will determine who or what your character is attracted to.
You can make the home of your partner a personal Headquarter,or conquer a guild or castle(in different manners)
to make it your personal HQ,and home for your family(ies) you can have more than one HQ and abandon/sell it at any time.

You can buy special gifts to "seduce" someone.you can start a relation with someone in the party as an npc.
A relation in the party will have some advantage for your party preformance
A relation with an npc will have advantage for your reputation in a society.

TRANSFORMATIONS

(need a Druid/cleric/sorcerer or combination of those to complete some of the transformation (rituals+quests))
your participating characters need to be at a certain level in order for the ritual to be possible to succeed.
Sometimes you have to collect objects over the land or be at at specific place at a specific time in order the ritual could succeed.
Transformations are also race restricted.it is like a "class retirement" .If you chose to transform you give up you're
former titles.there will be a certain incubation period(penalty) for each transformation.depending on your class some skills will be reset,lose a procent of your skill points depending on level,but wich you will be able to spend on the special gifts of that creature.
Like normal classes they have upgrades and gain more special gifts by time as they will gain knowledge about their new body and racial abitities.Only high ranking members of a guild are given the privilege of transformation.
Transformations will have far more racial abilities as the normal races.
Few skills they can learn,unlike the classes,Though some will be able to get GM at skills no other class could become

Sorcerer class-demoniac/overlord and necromancer/lich
special abilities:
Lich:steal mana,dark container,soulforge,powerspell(eyes glow red and spells do 50% more damage)
Overlord::Fiendcraft,gating,demonseed,devil form(temporarely)

Wight -Wraith-banshee
special abilities:fear,freezy atmosphere,posses,banshee howl

Vampire-Vampire Lord-Nosferatu
Special ablilities:bloodlust,levitate,lifedrain,Mistform

Medusa-Medusa empress-Gorgon
special abilities:poison,snakespeed,reflection,patrify


Centaur-centaur captain-centaur marauder
special abilities:kick,pound,spear GM,mount(attack as one persone together)

Halfling transformation:Woodspirit-Satyr-faun
panflure,rootstrap(are held in place by the roots till the character dies/or get disabled...),overgrow,create maze

Minotaur-minotaur lord-minotaur king
bloodrage,thoughness,axe GM,cleave

Naga-naga templer-naga Gaurdian
snakespeed,multiple swords,no retaliation,cutt off

Genie-Master genie-wishmaster
special abilities:lucky day,create food,high value,Rejuvenation

Nymphe,Mermaid,Siren
special abilities:seduce,Glamour,song of temptation,tsunami

Harpy/Harpy hag/Doomharpy
special abilities:vicious claw,curse,rage,Deathstrike

Zombie-plague zombie-Rot zombie or lord of decay(if your charactertype has mana)
zombie stats are cureable in early phase
immune to self magic

PETS

Pets are summonable units for certain charactertype(s)
they have an upgrade tree system.As they increase level the pets create a spiritual/physical connection with the character.
They use their abilities as much as they can,instead of promotions pets upgrade when they reach a certain stage.
Wich pets your character can get is also alliance restricted.you can give it a name,experience,..
You have combative and non combative pets,summonable and permanent pets.
-Non combative haven't got combative skill but have special powers and are permanent
Also reputation adjusts accorded to those permanent you have will be implemented.
-Combative pets could be permantent and Summonable depending on whether they are created/generated by magic or not

Non combative pets
owl
Parrot
Rat
Cat
Rabbit
Imp
Pegasus(summon)
Unicorn(summon)

combative

Bear
Wolf
Snake
Griffin
phoenix(summon)
Elementals(summon)
Dryad
Evil eye
Cerberus
Basilisk
Succubis(overlord's optional lover)
Golem
treant
Skeletons/zombies/ghosts(necromancers)

Rare gaurdians
Some times depending on your allaince,class(druids),place and time/situation..rare creatures temporarely come to your aid

Efreet
Demons
Djinns
Dragons
....

GUILDS
will be alot more involved ingame
Joining a guild could be done by payment,doing a quest to show competence or loyalties
In case of accepting guilds loyalty quest you could get banned from the opposite guild,if that guild is in a guildwar.
Guilds will have "main quests" and small monthly quests will be handed out by the guilds.
The ability to join a guild is class specific.
There will be a guild Ranking system:the higher your ranking becomes by doing their quests and stuff, the more facilities will be available to you,and you get access to particular guild specialities.
Enough quests will be given to people/rulers and diffrent associations,so not everything will depend on guilds.
Only in magic guilds you can be trained to expert and master level (to be GM you mast find teacher/leader in the world). apart from paying the price for teaching you must complete a special quest sometimes

Elemental guild(fire,earth,water,air,depending on wich town some are more specialized in one specific element)
Self guild(mind,body,spirit)
--------------
Dark guild
Light Guild
--------------
-the warrior guild
-the thiefsguild
-merchant guild
-crafters guild is race associated and have specializations
-Dwarfs:renovation and defences -Human:Improvement of buildings
-Elves&Dark elves:decoration of buildings
-Goblins:traps for buildings

Associations
are a sort of guilds not officially recognized by a government(followers of the snake,order of dragon,shadow guild,circle of witchcraft,blood brotherhood..)
Some of the associations will fuction like guilds:will be joinable,others will just have quests for you,some are just like other dungeons.
associations could get involved in guildwars.

Banners/signs:It makes the party recognizable,loyal to a guild,gives players the possibility to be "recognized" in the gameworld.
-npc's will automatically believe/disbelieve you
-you become well know if that sign you're bear is from a powerfull guild/society/..rumors amongs npc's begin to appear
-To give a personale feeling to the party.


Spellbook
Fire:
Normal:torch light,firebolt,Hypnotic Lure
Expert:fireball,energy blast,erruption,Fire Spike,glowing gaze
Master:meteor shower,inferno,boiling blood,immolation,burning soul
GM:disintigrate,explode(enemy creature)

Air:
Normal:wizard eye,feather fall,lightning bolt
Expert:jump,shield,sonic boom,silence,fog
Master:invisibility,implosion,fly,chain lightning,Pandemonium
Gm:starburst,whirlwind

Earth:
Normal:stun,slow,itching skin
Expert:stone skin,stone to flesh,Armormelt,razor cloak,elemental shield
Master:rock blast,death blossom,Telekinesis(lift objects/corpses and open chest),earthquike,Crush
Gm:mass distortion,Quicksand

Water:
Normal:poison spray,ice bolt,frost
Expert:water walk,recharge item,acid burst,dehydrate,awaken
Master:enchant item,ice blast,town portal,blizzard,maelstorm
GM:Lloyd's Beacon,tsunami

Mind:
Normal:remove fear,mind blast,fear
Expert:cure paralyse,berserk,Mind Stab,Psionic Blast,Feeblemind
Master:cure insanity,Psychic Shock,mindflay,Cerebral Hemorage,oblivion
Gm:enslave,phantasms(figments of the imagination for the enemy)

Spirit:
Normal:detect life,bless,turn undead
Expert :remove curse,Preservation,Heroism,Lamentation,Dissonance
Master:spirit lash,raise death,shared life,Feast of Souls,phantom force
Gm:resurrection,spirit rift

Body:
Normal:cure weakness,heal,harm
Expert:cure poison,hammer hands,flying fist,energy boost,regeneration
Master:cure disease,magical protection,body atunement(immunity),renewal,seed of wellness(cast a x time before you attack monsters in order to work)
Gm:power cure,cure condition

Dark:
Normal:reanimate,toxic cloud,fatigue
Expert:controle undead,plague,sorrow,vampiric weapon,cancellation
Master:dragon breath,armageddon,magic leach,pain reflection,hand of death
Gm:souldrink,Legion of doom(raise army of skeletal warriors,liches)

Light:
Normal:destroy undead,light bolt,dispel magic
Expert:paralyze,day of the gods,gaurdian angel,golden touch,blinding flash
Master:prysmatic light,day of protection,hour of power,sunray,song of peace
Gm:divine intervention,sanctuary

Witchcraft(grey magic):
Normal:cats grace,confidence,misfortune
Expert:curse,sleep,magical lock,blue fireflow (dancing blue fires harming creature),motion controle(you will have few selectable options to chose like dance,crawl,bend over,hink while pointing nose,frolic,act to collect money,..afterward you could for instance lift the creature in the air with telekinesis following by the GM explode fire spell...fireworks!!!!)
Master:bind(object to person),shrink,banish,terror,vortex(swerling mass of magical energy)
GM:Soulbag(trap souls from enemies and gain some of their powers),dragonshape

ReputationReputation is area specific
The main way to raise reputation is to perform quests in a righteous or morally correct way
and affects the following:
-how gaurds respond
-What villagers are willing to tell
-Which kind of alliance leaders will search contact with you first(by playing you go in a certain direction,still you could change your mind)
-the proposals you get from good/bad characters...
-The prices to heal/buy/travel,...
-wich personages are eager to join

RTS mode

This RTS mode is optional to play and actually is part of the story
It intensifies the feeling "the world changes",that things happen around you ,city wars,evolvings,expansions,integrations,events,..
It helps defining the npc's roles.(If we see rts from the "npc's view") so the rts element is part of the AI system of the npc's while you're in the normale m&m mode during most parts of the game.
You can play M&M without really using the new rts mode/even knowing it's there..Only the most powerfull and prominent characters will be noticed "using" it.

It allows the player to play a detailed role in society,emanate authority,play M&M in a diffrent way
To participate even more in the story..to reach a "goal" or compete to/eliminate npc's,take their role a bit,or totally.. possible(other npc's will act according to the role)..when you think the time is right,and you think to know what you should do
.
The most important thing in this M&m RTS mode is your goal.
the strategic part of the is reaching that goal with the methode you're using(there will be plenty of)
Originality in reaching that goal will be rewarded.
You can only start the RTS mode with succes if you have enough money or with a "sponsor"
unless you're leader of a society you can't controle a society directly(with armies,buiding,products,...) but only take part in it.
To switch to this mode your party must enter a building/throneroom,....

Every class type hass a speciality in the RTS mode in wich they excel
The skills and mastery level they earned in the normale m&m mode will also contribute to the rts mode:how able,good,succesfull they are in the rts at certain roles.
the specialities in the RTS for every classtype:
Knight(authority)
thief(negotiation)
ranger(investigation)
cleric(reputation)
druid(creation)
sorcerer(manipulation)

you have to think about what class is best for the job to reach your goal easily,wich isn't always an easy choice.
cause different factors will be important in reaching a goal.Its better to think before acting.
sometimes if your character gets promoted in a way that the society doesn't like/opens a shop that isn't tollerated, it has a negative effect and its better to set someone else on the job or to inform what the townpeople need before starting a shop.Besides an Inventory and quest log,there will be a "contracts list" with all ownerships,deeds,citizen documents,...and that kinda stuff visible for every character you "activate" in this RTS mode.having multiple projects in multiple societies will be possible,but need even more strategy for a goal to succeed.

You'le have to switch now and then between the two game modes:to "set something right" or to get something for the shop/building yourself in some cases,you could sell products from the society wich goes automatic,or decide to chose everything that will be sold(the ones you find)

Each race also has a speciality concerning building improvement (mentioned before)
how willing they are to help you improve depends on reputation with them
ofcourse you can bribe if you're rich...

-Dwarfs:renovation and defences
-Human:Improvement of buildings
-Elves&Dark elves:decoration of buildings
-Goblins:traps for buildings
-Faeries:building luxery assesoires and "natural environment" gardens,...
-Halflings:comfort
-Half orcs:demolision

types of homes and HQ

-castle(a castle can be a polis of all kinda buildings in a deffended environment)
upgrades like throne room,keep,gatehouse,ballroom,stock,wine cellar,kitchen,hall,training grounds,barracks,bedrooms,dining hall,canons,...
-guild(upgrades concerning the guild)
-house(how big and beautifull you can build it depends on how good the reputation is,and ofcourse how much you can spend,wich eventually has effect on how much you can upgrade the house)
cave and hideout:another option if you like it cheap
(For some characters as the thief and villian it has lots of advantages,upgradable with torture room,smoggler hole(could have public sales in another society),thieftoolshop for instance)

some buildings to emanate authority and/or have influence:
-Castle
-court
-guild
-church
-Mage tower
-temples(moon,sun,...)
-necromancers palace
-pit
-shadow forge
-dryade forrest
-the thief related hideouts

Buildings to create and enforce effects;
instead of selling items you could start your own shop,wich sometimes make you earn way more money,
and you can earn respect (shop has some kind of reputation) and if you're very good you can earn a honour title
for example:perfumerie:pixies can gain the title fairy godmother
shop(blacksmith,alchemist,giftshop,parfurmier,thiefs toolshop,butcher,bakker,magic shop,liberary,mines)
-academy
-tavern
-obelisks
-shrines:moon,sun,magical,nature,order,chaos,sacrific,...
-witch/druid,... circles
-demongate
-creature dwellings(druids)
-mystic pond(enables the pegasus pet)
-griffin nest(enables the griffin pet)
-elemental planes

buildings to improve transportation
To ability to move fast is very important for lots of diffrent reasons.
Also for a good functioning society.by starting a business like this you controle how fast a society can "act" towards other societies and stuff like that.With good or bad intensions.

-shipyard
-stable
(you can also discover new ways to travel,a mage could share his townportal skill eventually to benefit the shop,or a gadgeteer could design a hot air balloon or caravan to use for the business.so in fact finding ways to improve is important for the shop to gain aknowledgement.

when you think the time is right,and you think to know what you should "support" ,you know what the purpose is...you could start rts yourself.It's a mixture of the old m&m view and "rts".
You could have a temporarely role in the rts(building a house n small stuff) or a permanent (functions with autority)

Minigames
-Arcomage
-Machiavelli
-Arena:all difficulty levels like always
But also a big competition,with lots of npc created parties who you're able to challenge,place bets.
-Some kind of quizzes/riddles
-Dart game(increasing accuracy after a while)

Maps and documents
The worldmap in M&m will give an idea of the world,not accurate (with seadragons and other drawed stuff upon it)Kingdome maps you can buy at shops.(with every place that society knows about,places they could reach in the area)
the rest will be like a like big puzzle,so you won't have townmaps at the start,maybe a npc provides you with the first piece to get on the road...

-some pieces are given by npc's to show you something(for example the thiefguilds location if he/she trusts you)

-you'll have to explore (the locations of ancient treasures,dungeons,illegal associations,...)
(sometimes you just have an indication and you'll have to find the place)
as you find locations sometimes you can be rewarded for it.(kind of bounty hunt,provide society map update)

-political maps(territorial borders,war plans,..) if you can get your hands on them you can start blackmailing,or increase/decrease reputation with societies.

-you can you can produce diffrent maps with diffrent locations for others
-you can take notes
-you(and others) can mark things on your map and share the "upgrades" with a society to help them improve or trick them with false locations(can also be you who's tricked in any case you'll be able to remove the locations afterwards)

-architect plans(can unlock new styles,stronger buildings and you also know the weakness of a building by them)

____________________________________

design panel:make your own architect plan (design a machanical thing(hot air balloon till gaint gollem)/buildings at the location you would like to build it,sketch the tunnels of a dungeon to provide this information to others who might need it.when your building is finished you can bring the paper to the townhall and they'll make up the price and stuff.
if the building is not promited bij the society you can always contact some kinda illigale association.for instance the necromancers for a necromancers palace.smaller upgrades,like the torture room,throne room can be added later
it could be anything;house,shop,castle,tower,a bar...
In some cases you'll need deeds to hold the place,how you get them,by force or honnest...
____________________________________

journals/stories

they could lead to something or give the right information of someone.
others are just to entertain,a bard could "use" them.

---
More things will be added /tuned later, mainwhile any suggestions/comments welcome xxx
Last edited by White Wizard on Jan 25 2008, 13:49, edited 12 times in total.

User avatar
HodgePodge
Round Table Knight
Round Table Knight
Posts: 3521
Joined: 06 Jan 2006

Postby HodgePodge » Nov 22 2007, 0:53

Yeah, it's been a long while since you cast your … shadow … around our Table but good to see you again.

In regards to MMX … I love your ideas! But since it will probably be UbiSoft that publishes the game, I don't give too much hope of a game as great as MM6 or MM7 … but who knows, maybe a miracle will be manifested and MM10 will be the glorious game of the century. (Yeah, right! ;| )

Anyhow, I really hope one of the classes that will not be left out is the Paladin. I don't like to play with characters that have no magic abilities at all like the Knight or Monk; but others certainly do. I always choose a Paladin instead of Knight and/or Archer. I would also like to see a Dragon character in the game, although maybe not acquirable until later in the game, so as to not overpower everything.

I thought MM8 had some great innovations if only 3DO/NWC would've had the time and resources to really make it a greater game than it already was. Unfortunately, since MM6 (and MM7) were so fantastic, it was hard to match the greatness of these two gems. But MM8 is still pretty good.

My thoughts also would be to continue with what works:

Races

Humans
Elves & Dark Elves
Minotaurs (give them more specialties)
Goblins (great Knights and/or Thieves)
Ogres
Trolls
Lizardmen
Centuars
Nagas
Genies
Medusae
Dwarves
Dragons

Classes

Knight
Paladin
Archer
Thief
Monk
Ranger
Druid
Cleric
Sorcerer
Dragon

Can't really beat what works so great. :-D
Walk Softly & Respect All Life!

Click Here: Lords of War and Money … A Free & Fun Browser Game.

User avatar
accabear
Scout
Scout
Posts: 164
Joined: 26 Jun 2007
Location: Australia, Sydney

Postby accabear » Nov 22 2007, 6:19

White Wizard, your idea sounds quite like Baldur's Gate 2. The thing is Might and Magic games always had very uh... neutral characters. There were no real dialog choices to make, none that heavily influenced the game anyway. Consequences for your reputation were not exactly all that visible at times. They rarely had too much of an impact on the game, no lasting one anyway...
The party don't have much to talk about nor say, they all had little background or past and they basically all represent you in a first person perspective. Your opinion is theirs. Yeah I did enjoy the ability to dress your characters and make them look awesome and such which was kind of stupid when they took it out of the game. Your classes are not a bad idea, but there are a far too many class promotions or alternatives there. I think that some alternative promotions should be race/alignment restricted, coming with their own unique abilities and bonuses.

Basically alot of the stuff you are asking for is relational talk and acknowledgment between characters in the party, which I think is a fairly good idea.
The classes idea is okay.
You pets idea is not bad, although I don't really think a seven person party is all that good. IE. Four party members, two NPC's and a pet. The mainstay's of your party NEED to be your four player characters and I think races should be restricted to beings no larger than humans and if not then they should at least be balanced. I just don't think it would be all that logical to have Nagas, Genies, Medusae, Trolls. Especially if you want to have relational banter between characters... although it would be interesting to have them function as NPC's.

User avatar
White Wizard
Leprechaun
Leprechaun
Posts: 28
Joined: 27 Jan 2006

Postby White Wizard » Nov 22 2007, 12:29

@Hodgepodge:Maybe not for M&M but it would be rather possible to top the game of the century,since few good ones were made since 2000..
There are plenty of magical characters,just like there will be characters without magic and specail powers/abilities.I'll make sure the dragon appears.But Here the dragon would be like a pet of a certain high evoluated character type.the pet can also increase level and gain special abilities.perhaps with a tree system, it is not always present as a character.In small tunnels the dragon couldn't be called.How many chance to succeed for it's calling depends on the band your character has with the pet.It could get higher titles and a name as well.If you want the race/classes to be like you said I think the dragon should belong to the races as well.Naga's are considerable..

@accabear:To be honnest i never played baldur's gate so couldn't really tell what my proposal has so in common.I'd like to stay faithfull to the original concept of the game whatsoever.
Dialog choices won't be there in the main storyline,except for chosing a path/alliance.like in M&M7 celestial or pit.Dialog choices however could appear for perhaps inciddents on the road/when you enter a situation between Npc's?

Just like dialog,reputation will have little impact on the main game.
-thou the price in shops is determined by it.
-wheter town gaurds will attack or not.
-New:-which of the monster characters are willing to join your party
-how much you're being ambushed and whether certain Npc's will tell you about such secret plans.(how much NPC will tell)..
-some promotion option will be opened/restricted by it

And I like the idea of making some of the promotions race/alignment restricted.
Perhaps pets should be too..if you want a dragon pet for instance you should first have a dragon alliance.

For the characters: their opinion is yours.But they seem more alive,have more characteristics.
More relational talk and acknowledgement indeed.
if there are some bad hysterical and good serious characters could be fun though,or a dumb troll and a smart pixie,perhaps genies,trolls,pixies,the evil/good situation would spice up the relational banter?i think so..In the old games you had the possibility to yell at citizens,when they were hungry they said so..More things like that,when they are ill or drunk,in love,...

Image

perhaps the characters could have the possibility to get into each others portrets like here

knight:I'd like to stretch my leggs
Pixie:you could stretch me anyday

And then you have a arrogant sorceress like miss piggy

:-D

Image

some other notes for later:

the alternative:necromancer-lich certainly belongs to the transformations,obvious
4 players or 5?
2 places Npc?
1 summonable pet at a time?

User avatar
DaveO
Assassin
Assassin
Posts: 286
Joined: 15 Jan 2006

Postby DaveO » Nov 22 2007, 15:12

There has already been discussion on whether party interaction like Baldur's Gate breaks the M&M genre, and it may be too much of a shift for those who have played the series. Ubisoft did make a good move in developing and releasing Heroes 5, and right now I'm fairly certain that resources are being focused on the second HoMM5 expansion. Unless MMX is being worked on behind the scenes, it will take ~ 3 or 4 years past announcement for MMX to arrive. The RPG market has been pretty flat and mostly cookie cutter clones of Diablo type hack and slash games. Ubi has the added challenge of erasing the bad memories of MM9 and MM8.
I'd rather be part bull than a complete sheep.

User avatar
darknessfood
Round Table Hero
Round Table Hero
Posts: 4009
Joined: 02 Jul 2007
Location: Netherlands
Contact:

Postby darknessfood » Nov 22 2007, 15:14

Might and Magic 8wasn't bad at all,i enjoyed it. Right about 9 though...

User avatar
accabear
Scout
Scout
Posts: 164
Joined: 26 Jun 2007
Location: Australia, Sydney

Postby accabear » Nov 23 2007, 5:53

Baldur's Gate style interaction would most likely break the game from it's 'old mould' of a semi-faceless party. Although it would probably appeal more to a mainstream audience rather than the hard-core MM fans.

Alot of changes from the original MM system would be required for the game to be successful. Being realistic though, it is unlikely the game will ever be made and like Hodge Podge said, it will be made by Ubisoft. I see it as two different things, either you can remain faithful to the Might and Magic system and maybe decrease your profit from the game making a brilliant hit on the mainstream audience. Or you can implement new, not so original Might and Magic stuff and have all of the hardcore fans disappointed but maybe make more money out of it. Or maybe even a combination of all of these things. Either way making a MMX is risky business wise and game wise.

It won't come about for a long time. Perhaps never. We can only hope.

User avatar
White Wizard
Leprechaun
Leprechaun
Posts: 28
Joined: 27 Jan 2006

Postby White Wizard » Nov 23 2007, 11:59

M&M8 was still good,though it strayed away from the original formula/the original M&M concept a little bit.
The game isn't very replayable like M&M7 because it is already decided for you who could join the party on the way,very frustrating if you have a weak necromancer in your team and know you will be able to have a lich joining later who knows all spells and stuff.why would you even want to get in trouble finding a jar for ther weaker necromancer?you could have characters of the good and bad side at the same time?!When a character died you sometimes thought,let me just undress and drop it here to hire the more experienced one back in town...
You had 5 character slots instead of 4,wich wasn't good for this game:as you had not that many promotion options,it depends on how many character promotions you have in game..
For my proposal I could say 5 Slots easly,but with 4 the game could be more replayable perhaps... ;|

Although some things were pretty good,like having more alliances,
dragonslayers vs dragons,good vs evil(although you could have been both characters wich should be restricted)saving the minotaurs...
The possibility to dismiss/kill a character for another one(in this case i think 5 character slots are better:for a silly blond girl character to get killed on the way muhahahaaa) :beheading:
so the possibility to dismiss: ok..
But more tactics should be added then,not just powerfull versions of your own character willing to join.but if you need more fighter and have to many characters who use magic,and you don't like one of them ;) you could replace with the minotaur/dragon.if you have to many fighters you could replace one with a pixie just to give examples

And ofcourse,M&M9 to end with,was a flop cause it wasn't very faitfull to the original concept.
the ability to dress your character also dissapeared(as your characters should be your proud)the promotions weren't that appealing.
If you ask me they just made it for money,didn't even care about it's quality.I mean why did they even bother making it?

The portrets will just be "more alive",their portret will be their mirror,perhaps a little bit like a camera that interviews them,like in the terrible reality soaps when they come to tell how their day went lolz.they will have the possibility getting a bit in each others portret but it still will look like the old fashioned frame

Image

Ubisoft(and god it really doesn't matter who makes the M&MX game,if they just put the right people to it)

I disagree that ubisoft should erase M&M8 and even the crappy 9 from the memory.Ubi is challenged to bring new life to M&M without damaging the original concept,but still with some innovations that work with it.
Making the game replayable,increasing the possibilities and character types/evolutions.They shouldn't erase M&M8 and 9 from the memory but learn from it,that they won't make the same mistakes.
respecting the best features of each game.If it will be ever made,ofcourse

User avatar
DaveO
Assassin
Assassin
Posts: 286
Joined: 15 Jan 2006

Postby DaveO » Nov 24 2007, 14:02

I can count on one hand the number of good RPGs that have been released during the last few years. That does not bode well for Ubisoft if they want to attract new and old players to the market. Bethesda upped the ante with the 3rd and 4th Elder Scrolls games in terms of graphics, and in terms of story I've also encountered only a handful that were memorable. Do they have the time, talent, and technique to pull off a good M&M game? I honestly don't know, and it would be a far safer decision to do another HoMM game than risk a lot of money on an RPG with a higher risk of low sales.
I'd rather be part bull than a complete sheep.

User avatar
White Wizard
Leprechaun
Leprechaun
Posts: 28
Joined: 27 Jan 2006

Postby White Wizard » Nov 24 2007, 22:07

Updated

I removed the ability to sacrifice a main character,as i think the character you create at the beginning should be your "proud".
4 character slots to begin and one stays free for later in the game when you made yourself a name,joined an alliance.

I added some details her and there.

But I need more original upgrade names for some of those characters joinable later:too much kings and queens for my liking
thou i like the trollking...

pixie-sprite-fairy
Imp,imp familiar,imp king
Medusa-Medusa queen-Medusa empress
Minotaur-minotaur lord-minotaur king
Genie-Master genie-wishmaster
Troll-wartroll-trollking
Harpy/harpy hag/queen harpy
Lizardman-lizard warrior-basilisk
Centaur-centaur captain-centaur marauder

and who of you would like to see naga's in there?don't know good upgrades..

Maybe i'll add an alliance section later on.

@DaveO:that's true,not many good games were made the last few years.
But you'll never know how a game will sell,you only can asume.
It's not the RPG style,it's just all those producers with their clones out there.And this hype with "Mmorpg montly fees" showing up.The rpg market is actually doing greater as ever.In 2008 there is comming a normal old fashioned party based RPG "drakensang" and i can tell you now already that it will be a great RPG.But of M&MX we know nothing,so we can't say anything about whether it will sell or not.We first have to see some results.But i'm sure if they reincarnate M&M proper it will be a big hit.if Ubi has the qualities we don't know..(it's the people they put to it,really)but..they will have to find better graphics,and a better writer for the story as the one from HV,that I can tell...

User avatar
DaveO
Assassin
Assassin
Posts: 286
Joined: 15 Jan 2006

Postby DaveO » Nov 25 2007, 3:19

M&M could be diversified enough to make two or more entries. One an action oriented hack and slash with online multiplayer, and another a more tradition M&M party oriented RPG. Could it be done? Yes. Should it be done? I think there is potential there. Will it be done? That's up to Ubi. From a business perspective, it makes far greater sense to diversify your risks rather than put all your eggs in one(or a handful) of baskets.

P.S. - I don't consider Dark Messiah to be the M&M hack/slash action game.
P.S.S. - DON'T give players another Crusaders of M&M whatever you do!
I'd rather be part bull than a complete sheep.

User avatar
White Wizard
Leprechaun
Leprechaun
Posts: 28
Joined: 27 Jan 2006

Postby White Wizard » Nov 25 2007, 10:55

Personally,i'm kinda anti Multiplayer and I don't like online modes
The only thing what they do is reducing the quality of M&MX and kill its "spirite",there are enough MMorpg's out there..
They should focus on what is really important to a good M&M game:good story,world,gameplay,variation...
they could make more M&M entries,from business perspectif.But the more entries they make,the more the games would probably be poor of continent and crap.M&M would lose its good reputation,and no one is interested anymore.you can only dissapoint gamers once,die hards maybe twice...eventually i think they will have greater risks by making such "clones" of M&M

Speaking of Hack and slash,did you fans liked those brainless monsters they encountered in M&M???wouldn't it be nicer that they were smarter/have better AI?some mosters with specialities like the blood maiden from HV had the "hit and run" ability.
So if they are not great in numbers they can perform such a sneaky hit and dissapear strategy to weaken down one of your companions.

What about adaptive/respawning of monsters??
I don't think monster should adapt to your strenght,thou their AI could give them the possibility to set up defences?
So they will not get stronger but more tactical each time they come back,as you will have more possibilities,fly,meteorshower etc
There could be an option for adaptive/respawn thou

So characters have the ability to partly enter each others portret,but what about the possibility to make them switch:positionable characters??

Should there be promotional related buildings for your charactertype?or a castle like in Harmondale?able to upgrade them with for example a storage room,alchemist bench???

What about conflicts/affairs between your party members?

Quests with multiple methodes of achievement,like you could handle the quest like a good/bad guy?

What about a half-orc race to chose from at the beginning?like in M&MIX (ok the game was crap but still)

And I need better upgrade names for my joinable characters later on,so any suggestions welcome

4slots for characters and 1 for joinable character ok,why or why not?

User avatar
CoffeeGnome
Pixie
Pixie
Posts: 133
Joined: 02 Oct 2007
Location: Sacramento

Postby CoffeeGnome » Nov 26 2007, 16:35

For more interaction with the class and race combinations in MM6 through MM9 your class was the sole determining factor in your starting skills menu (including mandatory skills) and the skills attainable throughout the game. For MM10 there could be more player interaction in which both the class and the race open the skills menu for the character. For example the thief would allow for GM in stealing, leather and disarm traps, Master in dagger, bow and (new skill) marksman, Expert in perception, staff, sword, armsmaster, and learning. Then you add the race (elf for example) and the elf would add the ability to use ar expert level (or if they already have the skill by there class) upgrade the skill to the next level up bow, perception, and sword.
Still with such a system the class would have to be the heavy on class development but the addition of the race would enable far more character diversity.

User avatar
accabear
Scout
Scout
Posts: 164
Joined: 26 Jun 2007
Location: Australia, Sydney

Postby accabear » Nov 28 2007, 10:51

White Wizard wrote:Personally,i'm kinda anti Multiplayer and I don't like online modes
The only thing what they do is reducing the quality of M&MX and kill its "spirite",there are enough MMorpg's out there..
They should focus on what is really important to a good M&M game:good story,world,gameplay,variation...
they could make more M&M entries,from business perspectif.But the more entries they make,the more the games would probably be poor of continent and crap.M&M would lose its good reputation,and no one is interested anymore.you can only dissapoint gamers once,die hards maybe twice...eventually i think they will have greater risks by making such "clones" of M&M

Speaking of Hack and slash,did you fans liked those brainless monsters they encountered in M&M???wouldn't it be nicer that they were smarter/have better AI?some mosters with specialities like the blood maiden from HV had the "hit and run" ability.
So if they are not great in numbers they can perform such a sneaky hit and dissapear strategy to weaken down one of your companions.

What about adaptive/respawning of monsters??
I don't think monster should adapt to your strenght,thou their AI could give them the possibility to set up defences?
So they will not get stronger but more tactical each time they come back,as you will have more possibilities,fly,meteorshower etc
There could be an option for adaptive/respawn thou

So characters have the ability to partly enter each others portret,but what about the possibility to make them switch:positionable characters??

Should there be promotional related buildings for your charactertype?or a castle like in Harmondale?able to upgrade them with for example a storage room,alchemist bench???

What about conflicts/affairs between your party members?

Quests with multiple methodes of achievement,like you could handle the quest like a good/bad guy?

What about a half-orc race to chose from at the beginning?like in M&MIX (ok the game was crap but still)

And I need better upgrade names for my joinable characters later on,so any suggestions welcome

4slots for characters and 1 for joinable character ok,why or why not?


Not bad ideas. I think the AI upgrade would need to be a must. Perhaps a beginning of game difficulty setting would be good, adds more variety. Each difficulty setting could buff monsters accordingly and on the harder ones monsters semi-scale to your level. Variable abilities and speed would be good too. It was stupid how monsters could only walk at the same slow pace in MM6 and 7, different abilities would just create more variety and more tactical thinking. Also monsters with just one special ability like 'poison' isn't all that special.

Relationships and such between party characters I would personally like, but alot of people would prefer the old school 'neutral' or 'aloof' party. That's up to them... but it would make a more personal atmosphere. Multiple methods of quest achievements are a must, with good, bad and other methods.

Guildhalls or 'strongholds' that players can call their own would be nice. Especially if they are upgradeable and are class unique as well as you being able to teleport back to it via town portal. Turn it into a sort of personal HQ.

Half orcs? Maybe. Although I think having too many races just creates redundancy. Please just stick with the vaguely humanoid creatures. Vampire, half-orc, humans, half-elves, elves, dark elves, lich. Also I think that your reputation should adjust according to your race and should be area specific. By the way, I think more classes and race specific/class restrictions dependent on race would be good.

Here's an example of several of my suggestions in play:

Party: Dark elf, human, vampire and half-orc.

Class (in respective order): Archer, cleric, sorcerer, some class specific to vampires...

Quest: Destroy some incriminating documents held in possession by some elven city's garrison for an elven mage who wishes to keep his 'operations' secret'.

How it can be done: Force your way through the garrison and take possession of the documents. Results in bad reputation in that particular city for you, but is otherwise unaffected in say human cities. (it would only really affect your reputation abroad if you committed some particularly heinous crime). This may man elves act aggressive towards you, town guards will be after you, get thrown out of stores, bounty hunters come looking for you.

You could also discretely sneak into the garrison HQ and steal the documents. No reputation adjustment if you are not caught.

You could get some one on the inside to get the documents. This would cost you money but allows you to get away with the crime.

You could tell the garrison about the plot and get a good reputation adjustment ONLY in elven areas or to elves, although in some cases this may result in bounty hunters or other unfriendlies coming after you.

You automatically get a reputation penalty with elves and in this particular city because a dark elf and vampire are in your party. Such races are not tolerated readily by the elves.

Also White Wizard I recommend you write a formal manual for your ideas. I personally am quite keen on writing and it is a good way to neatly organize your thoughts and ideas. If you want a template for a manual just ask or message me. catachan_codex@hotmail.com.

User avatar
White Wizard
Leprechaun
Leprechaun
Posts: 28
Joined: 27 Jan 2006

Postby White Wizard » Nov 29 2007, 9:08

Guilds will be alot more involved in the game.
And you musn't always pay to join every single guild,sometimes a quest is involved to show your competence,loyalty,..
to get an idea,i've put together a draft of the guild structure in the world.(suggestions welcome)

each town has standart guilds(with diffrent guildleaders over the world)
-the warrior guild
-the thiefsguild
-merchant guild
-crafters guild(promotion:Gadgeteer,to upgrade your promotional related buildings,guild flags on the castle walls,rooms,other restoration quests,repair items,create items...)
Promotional buildings could be guild related?must be guildmember of certain guild to build certain building types...?
-the mage guild(covers all magical well known guilds from previous games,enchant items,...)
--------------
division guilds of the mage guild (need to be a member of the mage guild first before you can join) +several possibilities of transforming ritual(s)
fire guild(element,overlord)
air guild(element,valkyrie)
earth guild (element,treant)
water guild (element,siren)
spirit guild(element,fairy)
mind guild(element)
body guild(element,orc,medusa?)i'm doubting to have medusa as transformation option as well

when becoming an elementalist you gain the ability to summon elemental pets at the magical circles at each mageguild.the only class able to have more than one pet at the same time.

excepting magical guilds
-light guild(priest of light,valkyrie)
-dark guild(lich,priest of darkness)
-----------------------------------------
other none magical guilds(suggestions welcome)

-worshippers of the snake (medusa joinable,or should it be a transformation with deadly snake poison used to believe it could make a woman archers more beautifull?)
-mercenaries guild(?)
-guild of witchcraft(wichdoctor,beastmaster,..)
-shadow guild(shadow dancer,wight,vampire,ninja)
-smugglers guild
-Order of dragons
...
depending on wich town and wich race the guilds will be responsible for certain rituals too.
for example:only at the fire guild in the demon city can the ritual to become overlord be performed.with a quest from a pitlord or something.In the orc village your human characters could become orc at the body guild,+orc blood...and so on
So each town(and also guilds)will have racial stuff

transformational characters will undergo a changing proces wich will bring some unique abilities with them eventually,but also few penalties:as you chose for transformation,you chose to give up your original title(s) and title bounded promotional options.So there will be a transition between your orginal title and the creature you will become.the penalty:depends on wich transformation.
for example vampire: first days your hitpoints will decrease by time,you'll get very sick and weak,by time lose some of your old skills and gain some new like night vision,levitation,bloodlust,...the basicals of being a vampire.as later on you'll be able to master them(sort of promotion system) and become nosferatu.How much skills and procent of points will be reset depends on your current level during the incubation period,the skill points that are free again can be spend on the characters new special abilities.actually its kinda like a "class retirement"

The characters as the monsters in M&M will also be "biological correct"
so monsters will not only have a special ability like poison
when you pauze the combat you'll have more options,hitting/shooting at a certain body part.

Did you people like the random treasures from monsters,wouldn't it be better "what you see is what you'll get"?

@coffeegnome:exept for clas promotions,giving the playable races a kind of upgrade system too sounds like a nice idea to me.
But not skills like bow,dagger,.. a class like the archer could learn...
Lets say(because it's M&MX we're talking about) every 10 levels you can pick a special racial ability:
for humans that could be for example leadership,benediction,lucky day,..for the elves master of the hunt,elven fury,camouflage,green fingers,natural leader,...then its up to you to chose wisely in combination with your class.
your party can also gain "titles" depending on your reputation in a town?

@accabear:I like the idea of how one quest could affect reputation in different ways for every single race,one
quest affecting reputation in the good way with one race,bad with another.Conspire/betray.
A bit like the elven king and queen of erathia conflict in M&M7 but with a way better structure.
The half orcs are out,your absolutely right..and besides,we already have the orc transformation.
Joined/transformed party members affecting reputation sounds like a great idea too
A helping hand is always welcome,my english isn't that good,you may always send me that template,so
we'll keep in contact

New character titles:

Medusa-Medusa empress-Gorgon
Woodspirit-Satyr-faun
Naga-naga templer-naga Gaurdian
Harpy/harpy hag/doomharpy
nymphe,mermaid,siren

new possible pets:pegasus,evil eye

Now the next thing to do for me is wich classes/races can undergo wich transformations...
and a clear state on wich creatures should belong to transformation/joinable characters/pets.

Further,all suggestions welcome

User avatar
accabear
Scout
Scout
Posts: 164
Joined: 26 Jun 2007
Location: Australia, Sydney

Postby accabear » Nov 29 2007, 11:14

Guilds will be alot more involved in the game.
And you musn't always pay to join every single guild,sometimes a quest is involved to show your competence,loyalty,..
to get an idea,i've put together a draft of the guild structure in the world.(suggestions welcome)


Yeah that sounds right. A ranking system within a guild perhaps? The better or higher ranking you become, the more facilities and cool stuff you get to access within your particular guild. Perhaps monthly or sub monthly quests handed out by the guild?

Promotional buildings could be guild related?must be guildmember of certain guild to build certain building types...?


That sounds about right. I have been kinda thinking about that too. I would kind of like to see guild turf wars, perhaps the thieves guild going about causing trouble with the mages, while the crafters guild is seeking to expand into warrior guild territory. One problem to sort out though is your guild loyalties. I say that only classes that are related to the particular guild should be able to join. Don't have a thief in your party? Tough. Though it would beg the question, how do we resolve guild wars if you party is part of both guilds?

division guilds of the mage guild (need to be a member of the mage guild first before you can join) +several possibilities of transforming ritual(s)
fire guild(element,overlord)
air guild(element,valkyrie)
earth guild (element,treant)
water guild (element,siren)
spirit guild(element,fairy)
mind guild(element)
body guild(element,orc,medusa?)i'm doubting to have medusa as transformation option as well

when becoming an elementalist you gain the ability to summon elemental pets at the magical circles at each mageguild.the only class able to have more than one pet at the same time.

excepting magical guilds
-light guild(priest of light,valkyrie)
-dark guild(lich,priest of darkness)


Not a bad idea. Although I think having too many guilds just clutters things. Make an elemental guild and a guild of mind, body and spirit, a guild for light and finally a guild for dark magic.

Transformation rituals eh? Not my kind of thing. Only if the transformations were temporary. The kind of thing you would use on some dragon or particularly mean creature. These rituals will probably require a certain expertise in that particular magical skill plus some ingredients. I reckon a sorcerer becoming an elemental/ overlord would for example have to collect certain ingredients, enter his guild and perform a ritual. This may turn him into either creature depending on his/her expertise in fire magic. Also only high ranking members of a guild are given the privilege of transformation.

The fire elemental/overlord would receive a massive fire resistance bonus (but not complete immunity) plus would be able to use fire spells at an enhanced level but their other gear like bows and staves would disabled in place of some fiery fists, also you would suffer a penalty when taking water based damage.

Elemental pets? Yeah sounds good. But it would be dependent on your magical expertise on how good your pet may be and only when you reach a certain guild rank will you be privileged with being able to summon pets. Oh yes and pets should be able to gain experience, grow but are far more fragile and can be kept inside your bags or inventory.

transformational characters will undergo a changing proces wich will bring some unique abilities with them eventually,but also few penalties:as you chose for transformation,you chose to give up your original title(s) and title bounded promotional options.So there will be a transition between your orginal title and the creature you will become.the penalty:depends on wich transformation.
for example vampire: first days your hitpoints will decrease by time,you'll get very sick and weak,by time lose some of your old skills and gain some new like night vision,levitation,bloodlust,...the basicals of being a vampire.as later on you'll be able to master them(sort of promotion system) and become nosferatu.How much skills and procent of points will be reset depends on your current level during the incubation period,the skill points that are free again can be spend on the characters new special abilities.actually its kinda like a "class retirement"


Yeah certain races will be afforded transformation quests/rituals. This may involve your guild/other individuals. I think these things should give 'balanced' benefits', bonuses which will help out in the long run. Also these rituals should be long and somewhat arduous. Go about the lands collecting objects, performing the ritual at specific dates in specific places. I think though, that these transformations should only be made available to a few races. Not too many of them.

A mastery system... I have certain reservations for that kind of thing. I think certain abilities should be known to the player, but otherwise innate. I don't think there should be a way to 'improve your skill at bloodlust', perhaps it may increase with level or you may gain new abilities after several levels, but no points/mastery system. These unique abilities should be 'natural' abilities for such creatures.


The characters as the monsters in M&M will also be "biological correct"
so monsters will not only have a special ability like poison
when you pauze the combat you'll have more options,hitting/shooting at a certain body part.


Yeah. Better defined bodies and shapes. I think though, that we shouldn't be able to pause or go into turn based mode though. It would just make combat too easy. Especially with the ability to leisurely target and damage creatures. The game should have a quicker pace, get in quick and do your best to aim and pummel the creature. Body specific damage that may stun/disable creatures would be nice too.

Specific speeds, methods of movement, creature sizes and abilities as well as an AI which is applicable to each creature would be good. IE. Rats are cowardly, small and run about alot, elementals keep coming after you regardless of damage. Creatures that can heal may sometimes heal or power up their own buddies.

Did you people like the random treasures from monsters,wouldn't it be better "what you see is what you'll get"?


What you see is what you get. Reduce the value of items ALOT. No point in picking up the plate armor off every single dead guard.... it isn't worth much and takes up to much inventory room. Creatures bodies should have both images of certain items, just basic sprites so that you can easily judge if there is anything worthwhile upon the body. Clicking a body will automatically collect money off it. Clicking space or double clicking a creature makes you examine it's body. Lowering item values and perhaps increasing the value of items in the game and reducing the amount of rare and valuable items could create a more long term way of making the player invest in merchant/seeking out cash more often and making players manage their money. And like most of you I disagreed with MMIX method of increasing training costs to ridiculous prices.

@accabear:I like the idea of how one quest could affect reputation in different ways for every single race,one
quest affecting reputation in the good way with one race,bad with another.Conspire/betray.
A bit like the elven king and queen of erathia conflict in M&M7 but with a way better structure.
The half orcs are out,your absolutely right..and besides,we already have the orc transformation.
Joined/transformed party members affecting reputation sounds like a great idea too
A helping hand is always welcome,my english isn't that good,you may always send me that template,so
we'll keep in contact


Sure, I've added you on MSN. I'll send you the template. It's not really much, but it's a decent layout for a formal piece of work. (I'm quite meticulous about my creativity and the way I define and present it)

New character titles:

Medusa-Medusa empress-Gorgon
Woodspirit-Satyr-faun
Naga-naga templer-naga Gaurdian
Harpy/harpy hag/doomharpy
nymphe,mermaid,siren

new possible pets:pegasus,evil eye

Now the next thing to do for me is wich classes/races can undergo wich transformations...
and a clear state on wich creatures should belong to transformation/joinable characters/pets.

Further,all suggestions welcome


Like I've said I think there are a few too many races about. Also reputation adjusts should be accorded to the pets you have. Just a small detail to create depth.

You've got some great ideas about this I must admit. I used to think and theorize to myself about these kind of things, eventually resulting in me writing a formal manual to make a more organized plan of my ideas and thoughts. That's kind of stalled ever since I started writing a book. But yes I would like to get into contact and yes I'll send over a template.

User avatar
Avonu
Round Table Hero
Round Table Hero
Posts: 3850
Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Location: City of Griffin
Contact:

Postby Avonu » Nov 29 2007, 12:14

White Wizard wrote:Guilds will be alot more involved in the game.
And you musn't always pay to join every single guild,sometimes a quest is involved to show your competence,loyalty,..
to get an idea,i've put together a draft of the guild structure in the world.(suggestions welcome)

each town has standart guilds(with diffrent guildleaders over the world)
-the warrior guild
-the thiefsguild
-merchant guild
-crafters guild(promotion:Gadgeteer,to upgrade your promotional related buildings,guild flags on the castle walls,rooms,other restoration quests,repair items,create items...)
Promotional buildings could be guild related?must be guildmember of certain guild to build certain building types...?
-the mage guild(covers all magical well known guilds from previous games,enchant items,...)


First of all - I think that only Elemental Guild, Self Guild (spirit, mind, body) and Light and Dark (and maybe also Grey) Magic guilds are needed.
However your sugestion of merchant or crafters guild is ok for me but not in that form.

Well, we had sort of merchant guild in MM - you can trade items between towns (brandosk pulp in MM8), get rewards for creatures tropheries (wivern's horn) or simple get bounty hunt from town council. So, you only need to widen out town council authorities. After all, merchants nearly always were conected with towns representatives (in one or another way).

Next - warrior guild - well, here is problem. If you chosse for your character promotion to Dark Knight and another for Paladin, I don't think that these two warrior can coexist in one guild (characters can somehow fight arm to arm).
I think that better is simple not creating that kind of guild but gave some quest to people/warriors/rulers of different lands/country.

About craftsmen - I think that you need only Dwarfs for upgrading building. And you always can ask Elves to decorate your palace. Or another race. Or just find woodcutter and stonecutter to renew your buildings. There is a lot of option to solve that problem. I don't like idea of guild for each task. Quality over quantity. :devil:

And idea for me - only in magic guilds you can be trained to expert and master lever (to be gm you mast find teacher in world). Of course apart from paing price for teaching you must complete special quest.

-worshippers of the snake (medusa joinable,or should it be a transformation with deadly snake poison used to believe it could make a woman archers more beautifull?)
-mercenaries guild(?)
-guild of witchcraft(wichdoctor,beastmaster,..)
-shadow guild(shadow dancer,wight,vampire,ninja)
-smugglers guild
-Order of dragons

I don't think that guild is neccesary. Maybe (secret) association with leader located in sewers/mountains/dungeons.

Did you people like the random treasures from monsters,wouldn't it be better "what you see is what you'll get"?

Yes and no. I replaying (again) MM7 - thievies have leather armor, mercenaries have plate armor, elves have spears, minos have axes and dragons and titans have the best stuff in game. So in this game creatures have fixed and random stuffs. I like it.
I don't think that only fixed stuffs is good. Some randoms item (after all - thieves could stole some items) is not bad idea.

Lets say(because it's M&MX we're talking about) every 10 levels you can pick a special racial ability:
for humans that could be for example leadership,benediction,lucky day,..for the elves master of the hunt,elven fury,camouflage,green fingers,natural leader,...then its up to you to chose wisely in combination with your class.
your party can also gain "titles" depending on your reputation in a town?

I don't think perks system can be good in MM. However if your character is promoted he could achievied new (race/class) skill. But only after promotion, not for every 10 20 or more/less levels.

User avatar
White Wizard
Leprechaun
Leprechaun
Posts: 28
Joined: 27 Jan 2006

Postby White Wizard » Nov 29 2007, 15:31

getting more facilities depending on your rank within a guild sounds super,
they will have quests to increase the rank/loyalties.The idea of guilds at war is great too and i think guild loyalties won't be much of a problem.Since every town from humans,elves,dwarfs,necromancers,... will have different cultivated warrior guilds,mage guilds(though they will all have the same basic stuff)Not all guildleaders of the same guildtype will be best friends over the world..So When entering a guildwar(between different or same guildtype)and you chose a side of a specific cultivated guild,you will automatically get banned by the opposite specific guild/attacked by its followers when entering it in that town.however entering such a guildwar is your own choice.If we take M&M7 for instance and asume their are warrior guilds in each town.the black knight promotion would be available in deja with a loyal servant of the warrior guild from that town to promote you,the paladin would be available in celestia.So you can't have for example the paladin/black knight promotion in the same guild.(at least not in the same town) one choice will also disable the other.so you can't have both extremes in one party at the same time. you'll only be able to join guild depening on your class.
the facilities/rankings available in a specific guild depends also on the band you have with that leader.
the band leader of the same guildtype have with each other,affects how powerfull a specific guild will be opposed to other guilds.you can try to restore order to a guildtype or make more conflicts between the diffrent country guildleaders and drop it in total chaos.

i'm concidering to have:

Elemental guild(way easier,town specif specialisations fire,air,water,earh,and spellbooks will still have it this way)
Self guild:mind,spirit,body
dark and light guild
(This lineup for the magical guilds)

some quests will ofcourse be given to people/rulers and diffrent associations,so not everything will depend on guilds.

Associations:are kinda guilds not officially recognized by a government(followers of the snake,order of dragon,shadow guild,circle of witchcraft,..)

craftmen guild would be race associated.so dwarves specialized in the "heavy renovations,defences",elves and dark elves "decoration"
goblins "traps" and humans "improvement" of buildings.

and the ability to hire citizens like musicians,stone/wood cutter,and lots of other specials/also funny characters should remain.

What about a semi-what you see is what you'll get for dropping items:only with the highest form of the creature you can see him/her wearing a crown,special costume and you'll have that when you kill it.but the average creatures just have money and random items?

Classes should be with training and skills,races could have a racial ability every time they get promoted.
Sounds way better as a racial ability for every ten levels.as you would be able to pick 8 or nine if it depends on level
If its promotion related you can have 3 a 4 wich is way better cause you have to think harder to chose from the list to fit in to your chosen class.

What also is so nice about M&M is that you could play the "little sadist", like lurking creatures to a town in the hope some villagers get killed,back in M&M7 the little canon thing between the goblins in harmondale to blast them in the air.keep reanimating and killing a person,sacrificing your hired person with dark magic,...something more should be done with this little sadistic aspect.like when you press a button in a cave a prisoner in a cage will sink into lava.or what about the possibility to build a prison and chose who you can torture.the possibility to abduct a leader/prince and blackmail someone,asking for a money trade.when they don't pay you can decapitate that character and trow the head in the city fountain

there could be a news board for citizens with up to date news and events.also when you decapitate a leader will appear on here
ofcourse everyone will hate you that way,but you can always play nice as well

accabear,i like the sample you send but cant open the first file
more to follow later when i have more time
greetz and suggestions are welcome

User avatar
BMJedi
Conscript
Conscript
Posts: 216
Joined: 06 Jan 2006
Location: Chattanooga, TN

Postby BMJedi » Nov 30 2007, 5:18

Is there actually a chance that we'll get a MMX from Ubisoft?

Even if it's not as good as MM6 and MM7, (just as HOMM V is arguably not as good as HOMM I, II, III, or even IV), I would be grateful for there to be a future for the franchise.

As far as potential party interaction, my vote is for only the smallest, shortest one-liners, in the spirit of the original.

(Chalk one more up for the big guy! Ya-hooo! Let's GO! That's a monster? We need to get out of here, NOW! Let's get out of here! Ha! He was really weak! I got him! Got it! D'oh! Healer!! That was easy! Heh, uh, whoops?)

Perhaps a one-line rejoinder of a second party member to the first speaking party member would be a step forward, but I think any lengthy, detailed party interaction would break the spirit of the game, badly.

User avatar
accabear
Scout
Scout
Posts: 164
Joined: 26 Jun 2007
Location: Australia, Sydney

Postby accabear » Nov 30 2007, 12:31

White Wizard, just use my sample as a template. Delete my sample writing, add you own name into the header and away you go. Or if you want you can just leave my writing in there as part of the manual, up to you. Instant manual template.

First of all - I think that only Elemental Guild, Self Guild (spirit, mind, body) and Light and Dark (and maybe also Grey) Magic guilds are needed.
However your sugestion of merchant or crafters guild is ok for me but not in that form


Yeah like I said, just elemental, self, light and dark. All are joinable with the exception of light and dark which are opposing. You must have a magic user who knows at least one skill of magic from the relevant school of magic to join.

And idea for me - only in magic guilds you can be trained to expert and master lever (to be gm you mast find teacher in world). Of course apart from paing price for teaching you must complete special quest.


Sounds good. I like that.

Quote:
-worshippers of the snake (medusa joinable,or should it be a transformation with deadly snake poison used to believe it could make a woman archers more beautifull?)
-mercenaries guild(?)
-guild of witchcraft(wichdoctor,beastmaster,..)
-shadow guild(shadow dancer,wight,vampire,ninja)
-smugglers guild
-Order of dragons

I don't think that guild is neccesary. Maybe (secret) association with leader located in sewers/mountains/dungeons.


I think there should be nefarious or dodgy organizations or offshoot guilds about. You can't really join them, but you can perhaps raid their headquarters, receive quests from them and do some general interaction. most these ones would probably be hidden off in the basement of a tavern, in the mountains or in some remote swamps.

Quote:
Lets say(because it's M&MX we're talking about) every 10 levels you can pick a special racial ability:
for humans that could be for example leadership,benediction,lucky day,..for the elves master of the hunt,elven fury,camouflage,green fingers,natural leader,...then its up to you to chose wisely in combination with your class.
your party can also gain "titles" depending on your reputation in a town?

I don't think perks system can be good in MM. However if your character is promoted he could achievied new (race/class) skill. But only after promotion, not for every 10 20 or more/less levels.


I think it's a good idea. Every ten to fifteen levels you gain a new 'unique' ability. The way it would work is outlined in my previous post:

A mastery system... I have certain reservations for that kind of thing. I think certain abilities should be known to the player, but otherwise innate. I don't think there should be a way to 'improve your skill at bloodlust', perhaps it may increase with level or you may gain new abilities after several levels, but no points/mastery system. These unique abilities should be 'natural' abilities for such creatures.


getting more facilities depending on your rank within a guild sounds super,
they will have quests to increase the rank/loyalties.The idea of guilds at war is great too and i think guild loyalties won't be much of a problem.Since every town from humans,elves,dwarfs,necromancers,... will have different cultivated warrior guilds,mage guilds(though they will all have the same basic stuff)Not all guildleaders of the same guildtype will be best friends over the world..So When entering a guildwar(between different or same guildtype)and you chose a side of a specific cultivated guild,you will automatically get banned by the opposite specific guild/attacked by its followers when entering it in that town.however entering such a guildwar is your own choice.If we take M&M7 for instance and asume their are warrior guilds in each town.the black knight promotion would be available in deja with a loyal servant of the warrior guild from that town to promote you,the paladin would be available in celestia.So you can't have for example the paladin/black knight promotion in the same guild.(at least not in the same town) one choice will also disable the other.so you can't have both extremes in one party at the same time. you'll only be able to join guild depening on your class.
the facilities/rankings available in a specific guild depends also on the band you have with that leader.
the band leader of the same guildtype have with each other,affects how powerfull a specific guild will be opposed to other guilds.you can try to restore order to a guildtype or make more conflicts between the diffrent country guildleaders and drop it in total chaos.


Sounds about right. Although as Avonu pointed out the little problem with Paladin and Black Knight, it would mean that there would need to be a 'good' warriors guild and a 'bad' warriors guild. That means a duplicate of almost every single guild to cater for both good and evil. I think that there should be no good/evil promotion path if you wish to deal with the problem. Perhaps the guild promotes a certain path, ie The warriors guild, actually they should formally be called 'The Knight's Order' could promote you along the 'good' root, but if you wish to become a black knight it means you must have a certain reputation level and you must find the black knight promoter who is an individual residing somewhere, perhaps in a 'The Pit' like area. After accepting the quest from the 'Black Knight promoter' you will automatically lose membership from the Knight's Order and become their enemy.

Associations:are kinda guilds not officially recognized by a government(followers of the snake,order of dragon,shadow guild,circle of witchcraft,..)

craftmen guild would be race associated.so dwarves specialized in the "heavy renovations,defences",elves and dark elves "decoration"
goblins "traps" and humans "improvement" of buildings.

and the ability to hire citizens like musicians,stone/wood cutter,and lots of other specials/also funny characters should remain.


Yeah associations. An excellent idea with the improvements to your 'headquarters' from the various associations, also I think that you should be able to hire out these groups to improve the guilds you belong to. Add defenses and that to help out in the event of a guild war... perhaps you can choose a guild you are a high ranking member of to become your headquarters, store gear there, rest, buy stuff, heal etc.

Merchant and crafters guilds are fine. They should just be places which you can buy stuff at or do small quests and listen to some background dialogue.

What also is so nice about M&M is that you could play the "little sadist", like lurking creatures to a town in the hope some villagers get killed,back in M&M7 the little canon thing between the goblins in harmondale to blast them in the air.keep reanimating and killing a person,sacrificing your hired person with dark magic,...something more should be done with this little sadistic aspect.like when you press a button in a cave a prisoner in a cage will sink into lava.or what about the possibility to build a prison and chose who you can torture.the possibility to abduct a leader/prince and blackmail someone,asking for a money trade.when they don't pay you can decapitate that character and trow the head in the city fountain

there could be a news board for citizens with up to date news and events.also when you decapitate a leader will appear on here
ofcourse everyone will hate you that way,but you can always play nice as well


Yeah but this 'little sadist' option is not really all that prominent and doesn't affect the game all too much. In MMX, your reputation should have profound effects on the way people treat and interact with you. The Knight's Order might throw you out if you become too much of a villain...

Is there actually a chance that we'll get a MMX from Ubisoft?

Even if it's not as good as MM6 and MM7, (just as HOMM V is arguably not as good as HOMM I, II, III, or even IV), I would be grateful for there to be a future for the franchise.

As far as potential party interaction, my vote is for only the smallest, shortest one-liners, in the spirit of the original.

(Chalk one more up for the big guy! Ya-hooo! Let's GO! That's a monster? We need to get out of here, NOW! Let's get out of here! Ha! He was really weak! I got him! Got it! D'oh! Healer!! That was easy! Heh, uh, whoops?)

Perhaps a one-line rejoinder of a second party member to the first speaking party member would be a step forward, but I think any lengthy, detailed party interaction would break the spirit of the game, badly.


Probably not. Ubisoft won't take the risk in my opinion. Inter-party interactions, like I have said, will be a big must for the any future game. Especially if you wish to actually add more depth and character to your well... characters. Perhaps you need to define or align your characters as being good or evil from the very beginning of the game to make interaction more believable and in-depth. Simple chatter between characters would probably bring out only a fraction of life from your party. More complex dialogue may not be 'in the spirit' of the game, but I think it is a must.


Return to “Might and Magic”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], Google [Bot] and 8 guests