MM6-MM8: Are earth and mind the weakest schools?
MM6-MM8: Are earth and mind the weakest schools?
Since MM6, I noticed that earth and mind are the weakest school. Earth's mass distortion is a joke while other offensive spells are done better by fire or air. The only thing that may make earth worthwhile is the telekinensis. Mind's enslave does not worth to get GM for. It is nice to give a distraction to the opponent but why bother if you can kill them off? Mind blast is interesting but I do not think it's worth while if there fire sorcs around. I always get mind up to master at the highest while earth I may get it when I feel like it. When I do get earth, I only do master for it since GM is not worth while, as far as I can see.
Comments?
Comments?
- UndeadHalfOrc
- Cyber Zombie
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Completely agree.
Further:
- Psychic shock doesn't work properly in neither mm6-mm7. It never deals the full damage no matter how high your mind skill is
- "Blades" seems to completely miss and go through some monsters in MM7 (Dwarves, Gogs) while Lightning bolt always hits
- Mind & Earth Resistance in MM7 are pretty worthless. Most magic attacks will be Air, Water, Fire, or non-resistable.
- Death Blossom is too hard to use (Use Meteor Shower and Starburst if you want the job done)
- All the charming spells are bugged and don't work properly (this include the dark spell "Control Undead" (MM7)
- I only invest points in Earth for: Stone Skin, Rock Blast, Stone to Flesh, Prot Magic (mm6), Telekinesis (mm7)
- I only invest points in Mind for : Cure Paralysis, Cure Insanity, Telekinesis (mm6)
Further:
- Psychic shock doesn't work properly in neither mm6-mm7. It never deals the full damage no matter how high your mind skill is
- "Blades" seems to completely miss and go through some monsters in MM7 (Dwarves, Gogs) while Lightning bolt always hits
- Mind & Earth Resistance in MM7 are pretty worthless. Most magic attacks will be Air, Water, Fire, or non-resistable.
- Death Blossom is too hard to use (Use Meteor Shower and Starburst if you want the job done)
- All the charming spells are bugged and don't work properly (this include the dark spell "Control Undead" (MM7)
- I only invest points in Earth for: Stone Skin, Rock Blast, Stone to Flesh, Prot Magic (mm6), Telekinesis (mm7)
- I only invest points in Mind for : Cure Paralysis, Cure Insanity, Telekinesis (mm6)
- HodgePodge
- Round Table Knight
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Completely agree with your assessment of the Earth-Mind situation, UHO.UndeadHalfOrc wrote:Completely agree.
Further:
- Psychic shock doesn't work properly in neither mm6-mm7. It never deals the full damage no matter how high your mind skill is
- "Blades" seems to completely miss and go through some monsters in MM7 (Dwarves, Gogs) while Lightning bolt always hits
- Mind & Earth Resistance in MM7 are pretty worthless. Most magic attacks will be Air, Water, Fire, or non-resistable.
- Death Blossom is too hard to use (Use Meteor Shower and Starburst if you want the job done)
- All the charming spells are bugged and don't work properly (this include the dark spell "Control Undead" (MM7)
- I only invest points in Earth for: Stone Skin, Rock Blast, Stone to Flesh, Prot Magic (mm6), Telekinesis (mm7)
- I only invest points in Mind for : Cure Paralysis, Cure Insanity, Telekinesis (mm6)
Meteor Shower & Starburst are far superior to Death Blossom, Rock Blast or Mass Distortion. I just wonder why NWC/3do moved Telekinesis from Mind to Earth in MM7 & 8. It doesn't seem to fit very well in Earth Magic.UHO wrote:(Use Meteor Shower and Starburst if you want the job done)
Yeah definitely. Earth and Mind are fairly large wastes of time. You are better off using potions or scrolls to fix up any nasty conditions. Too many creatures are immune to mind magic also, meaning charm spells are near useless. I recall that basically the most powerful creature that could be charmed was the Troll, or maybe it was the Hydra?
I don't think that these schools are weak but they are used less then other magic schools.
Earth Magic - mass distorsion isn't IMO joke - if someone has a lot of hp (dragons, titans or someone with 30 000hp ) then this spell is very useful.
Slow is another very usful spell - check it on Master of Sword or Behemoths - you can easier kill them when they can reach your position (Spawning Pool in The Pit).
Mind Magic - IIRC Mok's patch repairs Psychic Shock - so if you used this patch, PS will be working correct.
Berserk is also good spell - cast it on Master of Sword in Mercenary Guild, Castle Gryphonheart or Markham's Manor and watch for effects.
Telephaty on the other hand is broken (at least in my game version) - when you cast it on monster it showed what item he has (ex. sword). But when you kill this creature and loot it, you find another item - not what Telephaty showed (ex. ring not sword).
Earth Magic - mass distorsion isn't IMO joke - if someone has a lot of hp (dragons, titans or someone with 30 000hp ) then this spell is very useful.
Slow is another very usful spell - check it on Master of Sword or Behemoths - you can easier kill them when they can reach your position (Spawning Pool in The Pit).
Mind Magic - IIRC Mok's patch repairs Psychic Shock - so if you used this patch, PS will be working correct.
Berserk is also good spell - cast it on Master of Sword in Mercenary Guild, Castle Gryphonheart or Markham's Manor and watch for effects.
Telephaty on the other hand is broken (at least in my game version) - when you cast it on monster it showed what item he has (ex. sword). But when you kill this creature and loot it, you find another item - not what Telephaty showed (ex. ring not sword).
- UndeadHalfOrc
- Cyber Zombie
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Actually I did mention Rock Blast, as one of the reasons to invest points in the skill. Read my first post.DaveO wrote:Earth and Mind aren't entirely useless, and I'm quite surprised nobody mentioned Rock Blast. Sure, it can be harder to use well but its utility of bouncing off walls is quite good if you can nail a group with it.
It's a great spell in some areas of MM7 (the Maze, Colony Zod)
- Bandobras Took
- Genie
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- Kareeah Indaga
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- UndeadHalfOrc
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- HodgePodge
- Round Table Knight
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They are the weakest hence used less, which is the point.Avonu wrote:I don't think that these schools are weak but they are used less then other magic schools.
Tried that on late monsters, the damage on most of them is usually not good. Star burst and incinerate deal more damage.Avonu wrote:Earth Magic - mass distorsion isn't IMO joke - if someone has a lot of hp (dragons, titans or someone with 30 000hp ) then this spell is very useful.
Can you please explain why rock blast is good? As far as I can see it is just a slightly stronger and more expensive fireball.DaveO wrote:Earth and Mind aren't entirely useless, and I'm quite surprised nobody mentioned Rock Blast. Sure, it can be harder to use well but its utility of bouncing off walls is quite good if you can nail a group with it.
Star Burst don't work in Titan Stronghold and Red Dragons have protection against fire spells. And try kill "Zoop" in MM7 without Mass Distortion - it take eternity before you kill him in "normal" way.kucing wrote:Tried that on late monsters, the damage on most of them is usually not good. Star burst and incinerate deal more damage.
- UndeadHalfOrc
- Cyber Zombie
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It is a manually aimed ball that bounces off walls, thus, you can use its ricochet effects to kill monsters you don't even see yet. (FUN in Minotaur maze)kucing wrote:Can you please explain why rock blast is good? As far as I can see it is just a slightly stronger and more expensive fireball.
Ther manual aim is somewhat nice, as sometimes Fireball chooses to aim behind a wall and ends up hurting your guys.
But don't get me wrong, Fireball is still better in most situations.
In defense of both schools...
Earth has a few decent, though overlooked spells. Rock Blast has already been mentioned, and a few people have brought up how useful Slow can be against the right opponents. I also like using slow to run away from things, specifically the rogue Obsidian Gargoyle I might run into in the Barrow Downs (where I tend to go before learning the "Cure Paralysis" spell). I also don't think Stoneskin is getting enough love, since extra AC is always helpful.
Mind, also has several powerful spells that nobody ever seems to mention. Mind Blast is essentially a more powerful version of Fire Bolt that's preferable unless whatever you're fighting is immune to Mind. Also, Psychic Shock (assuming Mok's fix) is very nice, not to mention the most damaging spell that a Druid is capable of learning. Cure Insanity isn't quite useful, since its benefits outweigh its disadvantages, but Cure Paralysis is a lifesaver in many situations that prevents you from having to carry around loads of white potions and/or spam the hell out of Protection from Magic.
The problem that both schools suffer from is a basic lack of a "killer ap" that propel the other schools into much more useful territory. Berserk and Telekinesis don't really hold up to Fly/Invisibility, Fireball/Haste, Town Portal, Bless/Heroism/Raise Dead, or Heal/Regeneration/Protection From Magic.
Earth has a few decent, though overlooked spells. Rock Blast has already been mentioned, and a few people have brought up how useful Slow can be against the right opponents. I also like using slow to run away from things, specifically the rogue Obsidian Gargoyle I might run into in the Barrow Downs (where I tend to go before learning the "Cure Paralysis" spell). I also don't think Stoneskin is getting enough love, since extra AC is always helpful.
Mind, also has several powerful spells that nobody ever seems to mention. Mind Blast is essentially a more powerful version of Fire Bolt that's preferable unless whatever you're fighting is immune to Mind. Also, Psychic Shock (assuming Mok's fix) is very nice, not to mention the most damaging spell that a Druid is capable of learning. Cure Insanity isn't quite useful, since its benefits outweigh its disadvantages, but Cure Paralysis is a lifesaver in many situations that prevents you from having to carry around loads of white potions and/or spam the hell out of Protection from Magic.
The problem that both schools suffer from is a basic lack of a "killer ap" that propel the other schools into much more useful territory. Berserk and Telekinesis don't really hold up to Fly/Invisibility, Fireball/Haste, Town Portal, Bless/Heroism/Raise Dead, or Heal/Regeneration/Protection From Magic.
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- Round Table Knight
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Have to disagree with this one.
Mind magics are not weaker than others. Actually, their effect are usually so great and devastating that most creatures are given some kind of resistance against them to balance the game, without which, it will easily dominate.
Just remember, with mind magic, the spell won't affect the health/portion of health of a target, but the whole target itself, placing it out of equation altogether regardless of its strength. Very few spells from other school, when it hit the target properly, would have such devastating effect.
Mind magics are not weaker than others. Actually, their effect are usually so great and devastating that most creatures are given some kind of resistance against them to balance the game, without which, it will easily dominate.
Just remember, with mind magic, the spell won't affect the health/portion of health of a target, but the whole target itself, placing it out of equation altogether regardless of its strength. Very few spells from other school, when it hit the target properly, would have such devastating effect.
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