Elemental Mod for MM7 -- v2.1 is out!

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Tomsod
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Re: Elemental Mod for MM7 -- v2.0 is out!

Postby Tomsod » Jul 9 2021, 16:21

Eksekk wrote:And in which situations do you get at least 8 enemies in sight, after having master fire of course? I'm not angry, just genuinely curious of your usage of this spell.
I actually try to complete the Sorcerer (or whoever is responsible for Elemental magic in my party) promotion as soon as humanly possible, as Fly, Invisibility and Town Portal make everything so much easier. The horseshoes also mostly go to the party wizard, so Master Fire is early-midgame for me. As such, opportunities do arise. From the top of my head -- Watchtower 6, Tidewater Caverns, Tularean Caves, Hall of the Pit all have wide open areas where this spell really shines. Maybe some other locations. Also, as I mentioned, Immolation can be used as inefficient but party-friendly alternative to Fireball, and I use Fireball all the time.
Eksekk wrote:I'm just annoyed that I am unable to "extract" from Grayface's code offsets of required functions. The stuff that follows is purely hypothetical (I don't need it), just being curious, so feel free to not answer for any reason. If however you wish to, let's say I want to have the address of function that is called when

Code: Select all

evt.CheckSeason()
is called. Where in Grayface's code do I search?
Oh. Well, you don't. MMExtension calls 0x44686D "process event" function for every evt command, and that function in turn calls specific functions through a switch construct. So you'll need to investigate 0x44686D in a disassembler (the good ones should annotate the switch block automatically). CheckSeason in particular is 0x38, and case 0x38 is actually the very first one, so one can easily see that it calls 0x446602.
Eksekk wrote:Also, two things regarding Walls of Mist. First, I just noticed that I fell in Walls of the Mist and received damage. Did you enable fall damage in dungeons? Second, Walls of Mist has a lot of piles of gold (technically items, but they often generate as gold) in the section with barrels, which can be abused to gain infinite gold if they respawn constantly. Did you fix that?
I thought fall damage in dungeons was always a thing? It's just hard to trigger because most drops are not high enough.
Yeah, Wall of Mist can also be used to farm gold, but I figured at this point in game it's more boring and less time-efficient than clearing normal dungeons, so I let it be.
Eksekk wrote:Also, it seems like destroy undead can be cast by monsters through walls (check the biggest room of Temple of the Sun, monsters behind secret door cast it)
Yes, I've noticed the same with Turn Undead. Either they think they can see the party, or I need to add "monster is visible" check.
Last edited by Tomsod on Jul 9 2021, 16:24, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Elemental Mod for MM7 -- v2.0 is out!

Postby raekuul » Jul 9 2021, 20:07

On the subject of potions: would it be possible/useful/wise to change the reagent shops apothecaries so that they restock daily? The big reason I generally don't use/abuse potions in vanilla is simply a constant shortage of bottles to put all the reagents in to make the higher level potions with (one black potion empties any given apothecary's stock for an entire week)

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Re: Elemental Mod for MM7 -- v2.0 is out!

Postby Tomsod » Jul 9 2021, 20:40

raekuul wrote:On the subject of potions: would it be possible/useful/wise to change the reagent shops apothecaries so that they restock daily? The big reason I generally don't use/abuse potions in vanilla is simply a constant shortage of bottles to put all the reagents in to make the higher level potions with (one black potion empties any given apothecary's stock for an entire week)
Wait, you lack bottles specifically? But mixing two potions gives you one bottle back, so any potion, no matter how complex, ultimately only needs one bottle. I've never had a shortage of bottles. I'll assume you meant reagents.
And to answer the question: potion shops already restock significantly faster than other stores (about twice as fast), so lowering this period even more doesn't seem right to me. However, looking at my 4.0 notes, I've planned to generally increase the amount of items sold in stores, so potion shops will likely sell more reagents by then.
For now, here's a helpful trick: let's say you want to train 10 levels. That takes 80 days currently, but if you train one level, exit, reenter, train one more level etc... it won't take more time. However, between exiting and re-entering you'll have up to 9 hours of "free time", which you can use to visit the potion shops reachable by Town Portal, most of which should've restocked while you trained. It's a little tedious, but you can fill your backpacks with reagents (and bottles, if you need them) this way.
Although I must note that it won't work in 3.0, as I'll reduce the training time in that version.

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Re: Elemental Mod for MM7 -- v2.0 is out!

Postby raekuul » Jul 9 2021, 21:09

It's specifically the bottles for me, and not the reagents. Monsters that drop reagents have a chance to drop their reagents every time they are killed, even after they've been Reanimated (since the reagent drop is separate from the loot drop from 7 onward), and decent Gray reagents are common enough - even if I can't get a 75 power Philosopher Stone in the mix, I can "make do" with weaker reagents and Mercury. In contrast, apothecaries are the only reliable source of empty bottles, and if you're playing around with potions to the point you're making white/black potions you get better results brewing them yourself thanks to the Alchemy modifier.

Under least favorable conditions, a potion occupies one bottle for each reagent used, and always consumes one bottle on use. One black potion occupies six bottles and consumes one. One potion of Haste occupies three and consumes one. And so on and so forth. The more potions you use, the more bottles you consume, particularly if you're using the lower-tier potions more.

(You do use fewer bottles than a potion occupies, true - a potion of haste can be made using two bottles instead of three - but the recipe scrolls speak using the reagent counts instead of the actual mixture steps so you won't know until you make it at least once how many bottles you really need, so it's safer to assume "one bottle per reagent")
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Re: Elemental Mod for MM7 -- v2.0 is out!

Postby Tomsod » Jul 9 2021, 22:47

Yes, I'm aware of the "occupies/consumes" difference: when I implemented autobrew, I tried to make it as realistic as possible, so it faithfully calculates the minimum required amount of potion bottles and refuses to work if you don't have enough, even though at most one bottle would be consumed.

But if you do mean you don't have enough bottles, then it's so strange! I'm no stranger to extended alchemy sessions, but I usually end up with like two chests of spare empty bottles that I store "just in case" and never end up using. And I don't even buy bottles in shops! Is it possible that you don't buy/use pre-brewn single-color potions? Yes, they don't get a skill bonus, but a single gray reagent (per resulting potion) can remedy that, and as a bonus you'll end up with lots of bottles you apparently lack. Generally, utilizing the potions I picked up in the Barrows alone gives me enough to last for a while.

Still, if such a thing as "not enough bottles" can ever actually happen for some people, then I guess I'll make apothecaries in 4.0 sell more empty bottles as well. No big deal!

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Re: Elemental Mod for MM7 -- v2.0 is out!

Postby Eksekk » Jul 10 2021, 0:35

Tomsod wrote:The horseshoes also mostly go to the party wizard
That is a rule for me as well! I'm sad that you removed skill point rewards from genie lamps. Would you mind increasing stat breakpoint rewards instead, so these lamps are actually useful (and weakening Day of the Gods even more to not make it game-breaking, as well as reducing stat "contests" requirements slightly to compensate for that)?
Tomsod wrote:Oh. Well, you don't. MMExtension calls 0x44686D "process event" function for every evt command, and that function in turn calls specific functions through a switch construct. So you'll need to investigate 0x44686D in a disassembler (the good ones should annotate the switch block automatically). CheckSeason in particular is 0x38, and case 0x38 is actually the very first one, so one can easily see that it calls 0x446602.
That was very helpful, thank you!
Tomsod wrote:I thought fall damage in dungeons was always a thing? It's just hard to trigger because most drops are not high enough.
No it's not AFAIK, try for example dropping down the lift in Castle Navan and dropping down, it is high and you'll not take any damage. It seems it is specific to Walls of Mist, because I also vaguely remember having fall damage there before.
raekuul wrote:On the subject of potions: would it be possible/useful/wise to change the reagent shops apothecaries so that they restock daily? The big reason I generally don't use/abuse potions in vanilla is simply a constant shortage of bottles to put all the reagents in to make the higher level potions with (one black potion empties any given apothecary's stock for an entire week)
Well, one way of fixing that would be introducing a "No Glass Diet" rule for characters (adding potion bottle to inventory when potion is consumed).
Last edited by Eksekk on Jul 10 2021, 0:38, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Elemental Mod for MM7 -- v2.0 is out!

Postby Tomsod » Jul 10 2021, 1:16

Eksekk wrote:I'm sad that you removed skill point rewards from genie lamps. Would you mind increasing stat breakpoint rewards instead, so these lamps are actually useful (and weakening Day of the Gods even more to not make it game-breaking, as well as reducing stat "contests" requirements slightly to compensate for that)?
I've considered tweaking stat thresholds somehow, but it didn't make it to 2.0 because I'm still not sure on the precise numbers. Do you have any ideas?
Eksekk wrote:No it's not AFAIK, try for example dropping down the lift in Castle Navan and dropping down, it is high and you'll not take any damage. It seems it is specific to Walls of Mist, because I also vaguely remember having fall damage there before.
I've just tried jumping down into the big pit with stone columns in the Tularean Caves, and I suffered fall damage maybe two times out of dozens of attempts. So it does trigger, but very inconsistently. Looks like a bug; not sure if mine, or vanilla.
Eksekk wrote:Well, one way of fixing that would be introducing a "No Glass Diet" rule for characters (adding potion bottle to inventory when potion is consumed).
Ha ha, that could work too. But for most players it would likely just be annoying.

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Re: Elemental Mod for MM7 -- v2.0 is out!

Postby Eksekk » Jul 10 2021, 16:22

Tomsod wrote:I've considered tweaking stat thresholds somehow, but it didn't make it to 2.0 because I'm still not sure on the precise numbers. Do you have any ideas?
Original MM breakpoints are like this:

Code: Select all

 500	 30
 400	 25
 350	 20
 300	 19
 275	 18
 250	 17
 225	 16
 200	 15
 175	 14
 150	 13
 125	 12
 100	 11
 75	 10
 50	 9
 40	 8
 35	 7
 30	 6
 25	 5
 21	 4
 19	 3
 17	 2
 15	 1
 13	 0
 11	 -1
 9	 -2
 7	 -3
 5	 -4
 3	 -5
 0	 -6
 
As you can see, the bonus pretty much dies after 50 points. I'd change it so from 40 to about 100-130 there is 1 effect point every 5 stat points, so it's more consistent. Later you can give 1 effect point every 10 stat points, even later 1 per 20 etc.
This would also make all these stat increasing enchantments & artifacts actually useful.

Oh, and maybe this will save you some time in implementing stat breakpoint changes without MMExtension.
Last edited by Eksekk on Jul 10 2021, 17:08, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Elemental Mod for MM7 -- v2.0 is out!

Postby Tomsod » Jul 11 2021, 0:53

Eksekk wrote:Original MM breakpoints are like this:
(table)
As you can see, the bonus pretty much dies after 50 points. I'd change it so from 40 to about 100-130 there is 1 effect point every 5 stat points, so it's more consistent. Later you can give 1 effect point every 10 stat points, even later 1 per 20 etc.
This would also make all these stat increasing enchantments & artifacts actually useful.
Yes, thank you. Here's what I ended up with:
Image
After stat = 40, the next bonus point requires 6 more stat points, then 7, then 8 etc... and at the end it picks up pace to end up with the same bonus at stat = 500 as before. So there's probably no need to nerf Day of Gods further, as extremely high stat values are barely affected. But at lower values it slopes much more gently, so hopefully stat increases will be meaningful at least until 200 or so.
Eksekk wrote:Oh, and maybe this will save you some time in implementing stat breakpoint changes without MMExtension.
I think I've already stumbled upon that function by myself, but thanks anyway. It'll probably be a bit more complicated than just editing the table, as I want to add more breakpoints (+21-+24 and +26-+29) and they wouldn't fit, but nothing too difficult.

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Re: Elemental Mod for MM7 -- v2.0 is out!

Postby Eksekk » Jul 13 2021, 15:27

There's one issue I noticed, that I find very frustrating - I can't find any items with your special bonuses (spectral/backstabbing/soul stealing/permanence etc.) (except special items like Barrow Knife). Maybe I have just not found right treasure levels, but I found no single item with any of your enchantments. And I currently am discouraged to play, because I need skillpoints to level up Dark to (ab)use Shrapmetal, but quests remaining cannot be completed without the use of invisibility, which I loathe (in other words, I'm not strong enough to complete them without invisibility). EDIT: just encountered amulet of permanence, so maybe there is hope.

Also, since you are a code wizard, maybe you will be able to fulfill my curiosity: what's up with Carnage enchantment and why it never shows? I don't remember ever getting an item with this enchantment, outside of Big Daddy Jim's MM7 and MM6 mods of course. Is it simply written to never show or is it a bug? (I don't think it should be able to generate, because then players will savescum for hours to get it, but I am just curious).

Also feature request: what about introducing an item (jewelry) enchantment which will "pierce" through some of enemy resistances (if enemy would normally have 40 resistance, now he will have 20 (exact reduction up to discussion))? Of course it would be very powerful, and probably shouldn't stack, but still it would be a very interesting idea.

And I think destroy undead from Archangels is too powerful - they literally take my Lich from full hp down to unconsciousness in one cast. Even worse, they dispel preservation, so they often end up dead.

Also, two things regarding shops. First, magic shops in Celeste and the Pit seem too weak - they sell weaker items than shops in Bracada/Deyja! Second, why alchemist shops are capped at power 10 ingredients? That makes higher level ingredients not renewable. Merge removes this limit (you can get philosopher's stones in high level alchemist shop) and I consider this a good change.

Just cleared Titans' Stronghold. My impressions: it was easy. I had to lloyd back to church twice because of bad mistake (not casting preservation), once because my cleric got unconscious, and the rest (5-6 casts) were to refill mana, because I was too lazy to rest and have to cast buffs again. Shrapmetal took care of everything.
Last edited by Eksekk on Jul 13 2021, 17:27, edited 7 times in total.

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Re: Elemental Mod for MM7 -- v2.0 is out!

Postby Tomsod » Jul 13 2021, 18:59

Eksekk wrote:There's one issue I noticed, that I find very frustrating - I can't find any items with your special bonuses (spectral/backstabbing/soul stealing/permanence etc.) (except special items like Barrow Knife). Maybe I have just not found right treasure levels, but I found no single item with any of your enchantments. And I currently am discouraged to play, because I need skillpoints to level up Dark to (ab)use Shrapmetal, but quests remaining cannot be completed without the use of invisibility, which I loathe (in other words, I'm not strong enough to complete them without invisibility). EDIT: just encountered amulet of permanence, so maybe there is hope.
Yeah, they of course can appear, you were just unlucky. Some of the more powerful new bonuses have a reduced probability (especially Soul Stealing), but I've encountered all of them during playtesting. Try save-scumming weapon shops. (Also, you found the Barrow Knife, nice!)
Eksekk wrote:Also, since you are a code wizard, maybe you will be able to fulfill my curiosity: what's up with Carnage enchantment and why it never shows? I don't remember ever getting an item with this enchantment, outside of Big Daddy Jim's MM7 and MM6 mods of course. Is it simply written to never show or is it a bug? (I don't think it should be able to generate, because then players will savescum for hours to get it, but I am just curious).
I got a crossbow of Carnage from a dragon during the last playthrough. Honestly, by the time you normally get it, it's not that great.
Eksekk wrote:Also feature request: what about introducing an item (jewelry) enchantment which will "pierce" through some of enemy resistances (if enemy would normally have 40 resistance, now he will have 20 (exact reduction up to discussion))? Of course it would be very powerful, and probably shouldn't stack, but still it would be a very interesting idea.
I've had this very idea at some point (and also to increase resistance penetration with Int/Per/Luck (the latter for weapons)), but ultimately I scrapped it. My rule of thumb for new features: if it makes Knights suck even more, don't. v2.0 does have resistance penetration in some form: Spectral for weapons, skill bonus for debuffs (which genuinely needed an improvement), just not for the damaging spells. Although the Cursed debuff does lower all monster resistances, it's also a weapon effect -- this is an attempt to entice magic-heavy parties to fight in melee once in a while.
Eksekk wrote:And I think destroy undead from Archangels is too powerful - they literally take my Lich from full hp down to unconsciousness in one cast. Even worse, they dispel preservation, so they often end up dead.
Glad to hear this! I figured if you decided to storm the stronghold of Light wizards as an undead abomination, you're asking for it. (Pro tip: the only way to increase your lich's Holy resistance is through Luck.)
Eksekk wrote:Also, two things regarding shops. First, magic shops in Celeste and the Pit seem too weak - they sell weaker items than shops in Bracada/Deyja! Second, why alchemist shops are capped at power 10 ingredients? That makes higher level ingredients not renewable. Merge removes this limit (you can get philosopher's stones in high level alchemist shop) and I consider this a good change.
I agree on both points. This is in my notes, but most shop changes are scheduled for v4.0. Although one of the few shops I did touch (Nighon alchemy shop) now does sell power 20 reagents.
Eksekk wrote:Just cleared Titans' Stronghold. My impressions: it was easy. I had to lloyd back to church twice because of bad mistake (not casting preservation), once because my cleric got unconscious, and the rest (5-6 casts) were to refill mana, because I was too lazy to rest and have to cast buffs again. Shrapmetal took care of everything.
Yeah, Dark magic is very powerful indeed. And this is after I nerfed it by removing the separate Dark element (which most monsters were vulnerable to)! I suppose there must be some upsides to relocating your internal organs into a jar. BTW, I almost never rest as it wastes 8 hours (and lowers the final score), so I don't think teleporting to a temple is a bad thing at all.

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Re: Elemental Mod for MM7 -- v2.0 is out!

Postby Eksekk » Jul 13 2021, 19:25

Tomsod wrote:(Pro tip: the only way to increase your lich's Holy resistance is through Luck.)
And that's the problem, especially that now you can increase your resistance to most of dark magic AND light has a spell which boosts all resistances at once. It seems that you switched the sides - before, storming the Pit was suicide and storming Celeste was walk in the park. After, it's opposite. (I was still able to kill the archangels by townportalling to Celeste, shrapmetalling them ASAP and falling down to escape. After killing all of them near fountain, I waited on second side of narrow openings until an angel made its way to me, and guess what? It's shrapmetal time! Still, it would be easier had I decided to savescum rings of permanence).

Also, I hope you've increased the boost from luck to resists as well, because in original game it was useless and I never bothered to even take Luck into consideration (well, one exception was well on Emerald Island, but you have luck-increasing well there as well) and always set it to minimum on character creation to increase more important stats. And honestly, drinking potion of pure luck would add what, 6-7 points of resistance? So I hope you boosted it.
Tomsod wrote:BTW, I almost never rest as it wastes 8 hours (and lowers the final score)
To be honest, I never care enough about time loss or score loss to do something differently than I am used to (the only exception are genie lamps, shrines in MM6 and generally things based on time).
Tomsod wrote:I got a crossbow of Carnage from a dragon during the last playthrough. Honestly, by the time you normally get it, it's not that great.
If you play "legitimately", that is true. But as of now, you can savescum Wromthrax to get bow of carnage, and then dominate overworld areas with non-shooting mobs (Tatalia is a good place with all these trolls). Even after removing multilooting, this will still be the case, as you will get one item per dragon, and this item can be chosen by savescumming.
Last edited by Eksekk on Jul 13 2021, 19:34, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Elemental Mod for MM7 -- v2.0 is out!

Postby Tomsod » Jul 13 2021, 19:59

Eksekk wrote:And that's the problem, especially that now you can increase your resistance to most of dark magic AND light has a spell which boosts all resistances at once. It seems that you switched the sides - before, storming the Pit was suicide and storming Celeste was walk in the park. After, it's opposite. (I was still able to kill the archangels by townportalling to Celeste, shrapmetalling them ASAP and falling down to escape. After killing all of them near fountain, I waited on second side of narrow openings until an angel made its way to me, and guess what? It's shrapmetal time! Still, it would be easier had I decided to savescum rings of permanence).
It's suicide for liches only, which are overpowered in most other aspects. They could stand to have a weak point. And if you have problems with Dispel Magic, it was even more annoying before I nerfed it. Have you ever tried to fight through Walls of Mist? The wizards there cast Dispel about every 5 seconds.
Eksekk wrote:Also, I hope you've increased the boost from luck to resists as well, because in original game it was useless and I never bothered to even take Luck into consideration (well, one exception was well on Emerald Island, but you have luck-increasing well there as well) and always set it to minimum on character creation to increase more important stats. And honestly, drinking potion of pure luck would add what, 6-7 points of resistance? So I hope you boosted it.
Not yet. I plan to make the Luck bonus multiplicative instead of additive, but that's for 3.0. I mentioned it because it's literally the only way to boost a lich's default 20 resistance. When it's that low, even 6-7 more points matter.
Eksekk wrote:If you play "legitimately", that is true. But as of now, you can savescum Wromthrax to get bow of carnage, and then dominate overworld areas with non-shooting mobs (Tatalia is a good place with all these trolls). Even after removing multilooting, this will still be the case, as you will get one item per dragon, and this item can be chosen by savescumming.
After I remove multiloot, Wromthrax will be just about the only potential source of an artifact in the early game, and I plan to add some pretty cool artifacts. If the player chooses an explodey bow over any of them, it's their choice. Besides, Carnage is an uncommon (weight 10 vs. the usual 20) enchantment that only appears on bows, so it's actually harder to roll than a random artifact. As I said before, patience can give you a lot of benefits in this game, and I don't think it's unfair. It would be if MM7 were a multi-player game, but it's not.

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Re: Elemental Mod for MM7 -- v2.0 is out!

Postby Eksekk » Jul 13 2021, 20:06

Tomsod wrote:Have you ever tried to fight through Walls of Mist? The wizards there cast Dispel about every 5 seconds.
Never ever, for this exact reason. I always use invisibility.
Tomsod wrote:I plan to add some pretty cool artifacts
Glad to hear that!
Last edited by Eksekk on Jul 13 2021, 20:08, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Elemental Mod for MM7 -- v2.0 is out!

Postby Eksekk » Jul 15 2021, 14:29

Several things:
  • First, you should probably update the link in first post to v2.0 and overall update first post, as it should show the newest version (this is the case in many other mods)
  • Some of the changes made by this mod are incredible, like cure weakness, remove fear and wizard eye GM effects. Would you mind if someone (maybe me :P) used your code to "port" them to MM8 (mainly for MMMerge)?
  • I know your mod is incompatible with other mods (because you for example make changes in outdoor maps, EVT files, monsters.txt), but would you be willing to write the changes you made so I could for example merge Azimovhaas8's MM7 Reimagined with this one? This mainly concerns binary files (maps, events etc.), because in case of monsters.txt I can diff it and merge changes from both mods, though if you changed any other txt files (the archive contains them all) I would be glad to know. I know I ask for much, so it goes without saying that I do not require you to do this.
  • If i dropped elemental.dll in ExeMods folder of another mod (and of course scripts directory where it belongs), would it break things? Of course some things (like monsters casting new spells, grave-robbing, new quest and items) wouldn't work, but would it overall be playable or would I end with endless crashes?
  • I know you said you don't wanna change general MM7 experience, but would you be willing to enhance it with additions, like some new quests? I recently started a thread where I write quests for use in MM games, so maybe some of them could be implemented? If you are against it, please write why. You don't wanna change MM7 this much - that's fine. My quests are of low quality - that's fine too (I'm no writer sadly :P).
  • Could you buff shield GM? Its effect will probably only be usable in parties without expert air magic, and such parties are exceedingly rare. Maybe keep its current effect and add x3 skill to armor class?
Last edited by Eksekk on Jul 15 2021, 17:21, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Elemental Mod for MM7 -- v2.0 is out!

Postby Tomsod » Jul 15 2021, 19:51

Eksekk wrote:First, you should probably update the link in first post to v2.0 and overall update first post, as it should show the newest version (this is the case in many other mods)
Currently the latest version is literally in the third post, so it's unnecessary. When I release 2.1, however, I'll most likely do just that.
Eksekk wrote:Some of the changes made by this mod are incredible, like cure weakness, remove fear and wizard eye GM effects. Would you mind if someone (maybe me :P) used your code to "port" them to MM8 (mainly for MMMerge)?
Yes, of course you or anyone else are welcome to do it. I've meant to attach some copyleft license to 2.0, but it slipped my mind.
Eksekk wrote:I know your mod is incompatible with other mods (because you for example make changes in outdoor maps, EVT files, monsters.txt), but would you be willing to write the changes you made so I could for example merge Azimovhaas8's MM7 Reimagined with this one? This mainly concerns binary files (maps, events etc.), because in case of monsters.txt I can diff it and merge changes from both mods, though if you changed any other txt files (the archive contains them all) I would be glad to know. I know I ask for much, so it goes without saying that I do not require you to do this.
Honestly, I wish I've kept a detailed per-file list myself. Let's see what I still remember.
As for maps: most DLV and DDM files only have changed pre-placed monsters, in accordance with the tweaked monsters.txt. ODM changes are mostly the adjusted challenges, and also the potion shop icon for Nighon and a fixed +2 accuracy well in Harmondale. For BLV, there are clickable sarcophagi in the Barrows, fixed keyholes in the Walls of Mist, fixed door in Fort Riverstride, and magic shop icon in the castle Harmondale.
The EVT changes are much more numerous. I advise you to try decompiling them with MMExtension, then you can diff them.
The .bin files are directly compiled from Data/Tables/* text files shipped with the 2.0 release, so read these.
EDIT: concerning text files, all the files in elemental.eng.events.lod are changed in some way, otherwise they wouldn't be there. You can also see them unpacked at the github page.
Eksekk wrote:If i dropped elemental.dll in ExeMods folder of another mod (and of course scripts directory where it belongs), would it break things? Of course some things (like monsters casting new spells, grave-robbing, new quest and items) wouldn't work, but would it overall be playable or would I end with endless crashes?
Maybe not crashes, but it would misparse monsters.txt, mapstats.txt and maybe some other files I forgot, leading to a bunch of error messages at game start. But I think it should be somewhat playable. ...Unless the mod does crash when it doesn't find statrate.txt. Why don't you try it yourself?
The Scripts directory of the mod contains only one file, and all it does is lets MMExtension execute evt commands in a mod-compatible way.
Eksekk wrote:I know you said you don't wanna change general MM7 experience, but would you be willing to enhance it with additions, like some new quests? I recently started a thread where I write quests for use in MM games, so maybe some of them could be implemented? If you are against it, please write why. You don't wanna change MM7 this much - that's fine. My quests are of low quality - that's fine too (I'm no writer sadly :P).
Yes, I read your quest proposals. They're not bad, but all of them require modeling a new dungeon, which is not really my area of expertise. And honestly, it's a lot of work for anyone. Have you tried adding new quests to existing dungeons? (For Merge, they could even link different continents together!)
As a matter of fact, I plan to add a quest with the Sacrificial Dagger as a reward for 3.0 as part of an effort to move racial artifacts earlier in the main questline. (I can add the other three as rewards for existing quests, but there currently aren't any goblin quests in MM7.) My current idea is to add a goblin apprentice to a hut near Earth GM teacher, who will ask for the Medusa's Mirror as part of her research on petrification. But if you have other ideas, please do tell! Just not anything that requires designing a whole new location.
Eksekk wrote:Could you buff shield GM? Its effect will probably only be usable in parties without expert air magic, and such parties are exceedingly rare. Maybe keep its current effect and add x3 skill to armor class?
I intend to rebalance some skills in 3.0 and GM Shield is, in fact, one of them. It's actually less useless than it appears, because different sources of half missile damage stack together multiplicatively. But a sword in the left hand is still much more enticing, of course. So I plan to replace it with -25% Physical damage. Together with M Plate, it adds to -75%, and combined with items that draw monster aggression (to the wearer, from other PCs; another 3.0 addition), it could make a viable tanky build.
Last edited by Tomsod on Jul 15 2021, 20:42, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Elemental Mod for MM7 -- v2.0 is out!

Postby Eksekk » Jul 16 2021, 20:19

Tomsod wrote:Yes, I read your quest proposals. They're not bad, but all of them require modeling a new dungeon, which is not really my area of expertise. And honestly, it's a lot of work for anyone. Have you tried adding new quests to existing dungeons? (For Merge, they could even link different continents together!)
As a matter of fact, I plan to add a quest with the Sacrificial Dagger as a reward for 3.0 as part of an effort to move racial artifacts earlier in the main questline. (I can add the other three as rewards for existing quests, but there currently aren't any goblin quests in MM7.) My current idea is to add a goblin apprentice to a hut near Earth GM teacher, who will ask for the Medusa's Mirror as part of her research on petrification. But if you have other ideas, please do tell! Just not anything that requires designing a whole new location.
Well, now I've added two more quests which should work without designing any new dungeon. First, moon stone, could be placed in some temple or other dungeon (temple of the moon in particular has hidden chest which would work well in housing said item). Second, "fetch sprite" only requires adding new sprite and flower to the game (or reusing an unused one). It could give as a reward the Elven Chainmail, if I understood you correctly.

And BTW, your idea with Medusa's Mirror quest is superb! I think it's going to work very well.

Also, another quest idea I thought of involves several quest items scattered in various locations. Technically there is already golem quest, which sort of accomplishes that, but items are all in outdoor areas and two quests of same type aren't too much in my opinion. I just need to think about which items would be needed, why are they scattered across all continent etc. (usual quest inventor problems :tongue: )
Last edited by Eksekk on Jul 16 2021, 20:29, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Elemental Mod for MM7 -- v2.0 is out!

Postby Tomsod » Jul 16 2021, 23:05

Eksekk wrote:Well, now I've added two more quests which should work without designing any new dungeon. First, moon stone, could be placed in some temple or other dungeon (temple of the moon in particular has hidden chest which would work well in housing said item). Second, "fetch sprite" only requires adding new sprite and flower to the game (or reusing an unused one). It could give as a reward the Elven Chainmail, if I understood you correctly.
Yes, the flower quest is indeed good. Although I'm sorry to say that it's pretty much set in stone that in 3.0 Elven Chainmail will be awarded for giving the Trumpet to elves (and Mind's Eye, to humans), so I'm not adding a new quest for that. Similarly, the Forge Gauntlets can be naturally tied to one of the two dwarven quests. The goblin quest is the only one I had trouble with. (I've also thought of giving the dagger to Grognard or one of his subordinates, but it would be way too early.)
Eksekk wrote:Also, another quest idea I thought of involves several quest items scattered in various locations. Technically there is already golem quest, which sort of accomplishes that, but items are all in outdoor areas and two quests of same type aren't too much in my opinion. I just need to think about which items would be needed, why are they scattered across all continent etc. (usual quest inventor problems :tongue: )
There's also the statuettes quest and the paintings quest. But I think the most interesting thing you could do is make a quest for the Merge that has items scattered on all three continents. Anything that ties them together and exploits the mod's chief feature to the fullest would be a hit, IMO.
On that topic, at some point I thought about introducing the MM8's version of Arcomage in my mod, by means of a quest to collect all the new cards, which would appear one by one as random loot. Ultimately I decided against it, but the idea of the quest items appearing randomly instead of at predetermined locations has some merit, I think.

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Re: Elemental Mod for MM7 -- v2.0 is out!

Postby Eksekk » Jul 17 2021, 12:09

Tomsod wrote:Yes, the flower quest is indeed good. Although I'm sorry to say that it's pretty much set in stone that in 3.0 Elven Chainmail will be awarded for giving the Trumpet to elves (and Mind's Eye, to humans), so I'm not adding a new quest for that. Similarly, the Forge Gauntlets can be naturally tied to one of the two dwarven quests. The goblin quest is the only one I had trouble with. (I've also thought of giving the dagger to Grognard or one of his subordinates, but it would be way too early.)
It just occurred to me that you're placing Arcomage rewards to be given individually. What will be the reward for Arcomage quest then?

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Re: Elemental Mod for MM7 -- v2.0 is out!

Postby Tomsod » Jul 17 2021, 12:44

Eksekk wrote:It just occurred to me that you're placing Arcomage rewards to be given individually. What will be the reward for Arcomage quest then?
A random artifact or relic, plus the two gender-specific artifacts from the obelisk treasure. And the latter will have 3 or 4 random artifacts instead. I generally plan to slightly lower the max number of artifacts that can be randomly looted from dragons etc., and instead place a few more guaranteed (but random) artifacts that won't count towards this limit.


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