MM6 skill emphasis mod (#74)

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tnevolin
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Re: MM6 skill emphasis mod

Unread postby tnevolin » 28 May 2022, 03:47

Malekitsu wrote: 27 May 2022, 14:42 Note: having super high resistance and adjusting enemies spells around that would make unlucky dice roll doing spiky damage, while a lower resistance would make a more solid and less spiky damage.
Didn't get the idea and also didn't understand what are you fixing.

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Re: MM6 skill emphasis mod

Unread postby tnevolin » 28 May 2022, 04:03

Malekitsu wrote: 27 May 2022, 16:05 Probably true at higher level, but early/mid game weapon are overtuned and spells weak in comparison.
That could be because these low level attack spells. I didn't change them at all. Slight increase in their damage may even out things.
Malekitsu wrote: 27 May 2022, 16:05
what buffs are too strong at higher level?
elemental resistance buffs.
That could be true. The are exceptionally weak at lower level in vanilla to the level nobody uses them. I tried to give them some chance to be used even on low level but that may push them too far at high ones. Any suggestions on how to fix it are welcome. Besides, you need to account for mirror spells granting all resistances at once.
Malekitsu wrote: 27 May 2022, 16:05 Side note to tnevolin:
I noticed that you modified the spell resistance effect of basic elemental resistance to +3-4-5.
Day of protection still grants +2-3-4, making it weaker, is that intended?
Yes. I don't want protection spells to become completely inferior to the day of protection. So left them some strength bonus instead. That could be replaced with cheaper cost, longer duration or anything else that may keep them usable in some situations.

However, this is a pretty minor thing. I won't cry loosing this feature.
Malekitsu wrote: 27 May 2022, 16:05 Also I've calculated that end game player will be at around lvl 100, but with the new "learning" skill I'm not sure how the formula is calculated. It's written that above 12 is a waste of points, does it means that the max achievable bonus exp is (12*5%)+9%= 69%?
*9% is the basic bonus when you acquire the skill
That is correct.
In vanilla, with lower learning effect, anything above 7 was a waste of points.

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Re: MM6 skill emphasis mod

Unread postby tnevolin » 28 May 2022, 04:19

Malekitsu wrote: 28 May 2022, 00:59 Image
That's a first idea of how it could be.
As soon as I'm back home I'll make a function to calculate how much damage is reduced on average for all the parameters, to see if there is need for adjustments and if enemies needs a different scaling.
I've seen the formula on grayface website, is the dice roll infinite until loose or there is a limit at a certain point (like at 1/16)?
As always any advice is welcome!

I think you need to be level 10 to become a master in armor.

What's "buff"? A protection spell, I guess?

Formula for passing a protection has a limit at 1/16. However, this is largely irrelevant. You can assume it is an infinite progression and approximate it as such.

Resistance values are already precalculated.
https://grayface.github.io/mm/mechanics/#Resistances
Last edited by tnevolin on 28 May 2022, 04:35, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: MM6 skill emphasis mod

Unread postby tnevolin » 28 May 2022, 04:34

raekuul wrote: 28 May 2022, 03:23
That gives 100 level monster 6.25 multiplier. Are you sure people will be able to beat these end game monsters?[/quote]Unless you moved where the Blaster Skill is obtained, you can do some tricky maneuvering to fight the bots one at a time in Control Center, so it's only the stronger class of Kreegan that would be an issue (due to sheer numbers), and the more devastating Meteor Swarm (1) isn't homed and (2) can't be cast indoors anyway. It'll need some fine-tuning though; 6.25x on a Devil Lord is going to hurt bad once combined with the amplified move speed.

Incidentally, hostile Meteor Swarm spells are why we don't usually engage the exterior Kreegan in turn-based mode. If you can't move you eat all twelve shots. Even in vanilla, that's usually enough to force the party to disengage.

Even with SkEm you're not ever required to fight Titans/Hydras/Gold Dragons (you can take the Queen Cathrine to the Hermit's Isle Temple of Baa once you've exposed the traitor, and Dragons prefer to stay at range so you should be able to get from the Blackshire<>Dragonsand Crossing to the Tomb of VARN without getting absolutely massacred)
[/quote]

I am sure you can. The question was whether you want such level of grinding?
:)

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Re: MM6 skill emphasis mod

Unread postby Malekitsu » 28 May 2022, 05:52

Didn't get the idea and also didn't understand what are you fixing.
Not fixing anything here, it was just a side note
Yes. I don't want protection spells to become completely inferior to the day of protection. So left them some strength bonus instead. That could be replaced with cheaper cost, longer duration or anything else that may keep them usable in some situations.
As said, the change is completely fine, and if you plan multiplying enemies damage to 6.25 actually it might be necessary for them to be strong.
I think you need to be level 10 to become a master in armor.
Completely forgot, will adjust the values
What's "buff"? A protection spell, I guess?
Yes
Resistance values are already precalculated.

Yes but only at set values, I would like to be able to play around values
Formula for passing a protection has a limit at 1/16. However, this is largely irrelevant. You can assume it is an infinite progression and approximate it as such.
At higher resistance values it becomes very relevant.

Update: Created a File You can modify to play with numbers:
https://1drv.ms/x/s!Aqtkd5Irfv8rhCuAsS9 ... c?e=tVzxCN
I'll try to implement %damage reduction later and then work on the balance.
Last edited by Malekitsu on 28 May 2022, 07:31, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: MM6 skill emphasis mod

Unread postby RawSugar » 28 May 2022, 07:19

tnevolin wrote: 28 May 2022, 03:17
RawSugar wrote: 27 May 2022, 06:04 monsterdamage: the formula of damage*(1vl/20+1.25) should be perfect.

Regardless applying the formula only to main attack and spell rank (but not secondary attack) should smoothen the curve. Hopefully thats possible?
That gives 100 level monster 6.25 multiplier. Are you sure people will be able to beat these end game monsters?

Absolutely possible as I already pointed out. I'll just replace existing formula with new one. Are we talking about damage only modification here? Monster HP stays at x2?
RawSugar wrote: 27 May 2022, 06:04 Spells: Since you so promptly did the bugfixes with shrap metal and such i was hoping updating spells might be possible as well:)
I started a new game and early game sparks damage is really too high :) A few of the other spell changes would also greatly improve the game
When I remember where it is and it is one liner - sure.

Here is the list of all offensive spells modifications.
https://github.com/tnevolin/mm6-skill-e ... d.lua#L355
Feel free to propose your modifications. Also I have shared my spreadsheet with spell damage (vanilla vs. mod). Feel free to play with it as well.

Actually, you can find this file on your machine and change values right there and try them out and then merge them in when you are satisfied.
the math/analysis is; vanilla lategame player hp has increased ~1250% and monster average damage ~1000%, max monster damage about 250%, meanwhile armor/resistance in vanilla roughly doubles player effective hp. That is why the game is generally much easier late game, the curve is smoothened somewhat by early game monsters being easily handled in vanilla by skirmish, but still - that just means the game is fairly easy throughout.

Your mod makes these numbers lategame player hp has increased ~1250% and monster average damage ~2000%, max monster damage about 500%, meanwhile armor/resistance in vanilla roughly increases player effective hp by 400%. (which means player effective hp increases 5000% vs monster damage 2000%, same ratio as vanilla)

So even with monster damage increased by factor 6, average monster damage just barely outpaces player hp (6000% vs 5000%), and max/burst damage has increased only 1500% which should still make damage taken fairly constant and therefore manageable.
Caveat here is armor/resistance function by giving a chance to reduce damage. every 10-20 attack players receive will give full damage and some will almost oneshot.
Is it possible to adjust when players die rather than go unconscious?

Also note that level 85-100 is exclusive to monsters like supreme titans and dragons. most of these are optional targets and should be big and scary. In endgame dungeons the level is more ~70 meaning a 475% increase vs vanilla and ~4750% vs early game monster damage.

As for meteor shower; can the formula contain IF statements? Ideally I'd want to handle meteor shower and psychic shock differently.
And can the formula be applied only to main attack and spell rank?
Actually; a simple fix might be to leave spells at *2 as your mod already does, for the most part this gives a good result since these abilities are already quite powerful. So its just melee/ranged main attack that needs adjusting.

edit I took a look at the code its surprisingly similar to VBA so was able to apply something like the change, need a variable name from you to make it perfect though. testing it now and looks like it has revitalized my level 50 campaigns^^

edit edit: so i traveled to paradise valley with my level 50 partys, both the melee and the casters were able to take on a single dragon relatively easily, even though gold dragon damage has increased from 8-128 to 96-768 (waaah), and could fight 2 or 3 with difficulty and luck...understand im way too low level for that area though and only halfway in skilling my defensive skills. i feel confident that once im level 80+ ill be able to fight dragons on relatively even ground.
Of course the question is whether we want to fight them on even ground or just less favored. Right now an unlucky defensive roll can mean death or most hitpoints gone and that will happen every ~12 hits on average. To me that means dragons are dragonic ( i think, might change my mind when i actually try it) but it might be too challenging when every fight you risk death...?
I think Mlvl/30+1.25 would give a reasonable difficulty, more challenging than vanilla but not actually difficult. I much prefer /20 though, but now that i know how to adjust the setting the official can be whatever^^

So yeah im like 99% sure that this will make the game more difficult but not overly so and not so much it stops being fun. I cant promise players will never die or do shit like solo the whole game though, but thats kinda the point innit?

Spells: the proposed changes are fairly limited and puts them in line with other spells but sure ill test.
Can spells change base in expert/master while still having a die roll? (can first aid have a roll/bonus and change base)
Last edited by RawSugar on 28 May 2022, 14:23, edited 5 times in total.

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Re: MM6 skill emphasis mod

Unread postby RawSugar » 28 May 2022, 08:53

Resistance: the numbers look huge but in terms of effect halving them doesnt make that much difference, but it IS enough to make them less viable.
Atm you can give up 10% of your max rank from an offensive skill (rank 40 becomes rank 36) to get a ~120% hitpoint boost, and further 10% for another 30% hitpoint you can even do -30% damage for +190% - after that it stops being a decent deal. Halving the bonuses makes the boost 70%/20%/30%.
Keep in mind that these protections arent universal, the actual benefit is maybe half given they only protects from some types of attacks.. even at half bonus the first 10%-->almost double hp is obviously worth it but after that you remove the option of making tanky characters if you halve the bonus.

I think current numbers are optimal. The only i'd change is make plate 2 or 4 resist and 10 or 8 armor, and chain into 6/6.

Melee vs spell vs bow:
Early game knights are able to deal 70 damage when they hit, average might be something like 50 (i havent done any math or test here just guesstimate). Currently a expert sparks spell deals 70 damage, a rank 6 fireball or ring of fire deals 21 damage pr target at range. This is balanced imo, single target ranged spells need mid to high level to really pay off.

Late game a knight will do 350 damage at fastest recovery if im reading the charts right. a rank 40 sparks deal 400 damage while a dark metal caster deal 1000 damage with shrap metal (at fastest recovery(?)). The mod has closed the gap between melee and spells considerably and melee might be slightly more powerful early game in some circumstances but it still lags well behind in terms of burst damage and AOE, which is balanced by being 0 manacost abilities. I really dont think spells need buffs in early game or late - i even think early game sparks need to be tuned down a little in the mod.

Bows i think archers should do 1/3 the damage of knight melee. If im doing the math right this is more or less the same damage as firebolt at the same rank for 0 mana - that seems balanced given knights basically use an ability that is as powerful as a 0 mana sparks spell.
Correspondingly just like archers deal ~half damage in melee vs knight, knights should deal ~half damage with bows. I think for knights thats already the case (assuming a max level + damage bow) while archers need +1 damage pr rank rather than extra recovery, but im not 100% on th mechanics involved.
Last edited by RawSugar on 29 May 2022, 14:09, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: MM6 skill emphasis mod

Unread postby Malekitsu » 28 May 2022, 15:17

Updated sheets to easily test out the values
https://1drv.ms/x/s!Aqtkd5Irfv8rhCuAsS9 ... c?e=tVzxCN

Could do a similiar thing with AC, spells and weapon damage if that help you balance the game.

That said:
Resistance: the numbers look huge but in terms of effect halving them doesnt make that much difference, but it IS enough to make them less viable.
with increasing damage it should be balanced also at higher res.
Bows i think archers should do 1/3 the damage of knight melee.
Agreed, even 1/2 would be fine imho.
I would like also knights to do some decent damage with bows (like 1/3 or 1/4 of weapon damage) to let them do something when noone is in range.
even think early game sparks need to be tuned down a little in the mod
an easy fix would be lowering starting damage to 8 or even 6.
i feel confident that once im level 80+ ill be able to fight dragons on relatively even ground.
I would like to see some testing with higher level party as you are not supposed to be able to deal with them that early.
Could you tell me what resistances do you have with resistance spells?

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Re: MM6 skill emphasis mod

Unread postby raekuul » 28 May 2022, 15:40

tnevolin wrote: 28 May 2022, 03:44
raekuul wrote: 27 May 2022, 11:57 SkEm would be an excellent base for MM6 Randomizer and I would love to do the both together but Full SkEm punishes you for going in to areas when you're unprepared for them and Randomizer changes the order of progression entirely so as things currently stand it's a very bad idea to mix the two - in my randomizer game the Goblinwatch Key was in Tsantsa.
Do you randomize map/locations? Can you share a link to it?
The Randomizer has options to randomize Quest NPC locations, Quest Item Locations, and Monsters. I haven't played with randomized monsters yet. It's not a complete randomizer yet in the sense that Quest items are only randomized among the chests that already give quest items but it's still enough to completely change the order of progression and required dungeons within the game - I've got half of the memory crystals and the control cube already, meanwhile I still haven't seen Kilburn's Shield or the Outpost Plans. I might even be required to fight Q to get a quest item - I don't know if the Horn of Ros is in the shuffled pool or not - and I'm going to have to track down the Circus for whatever quest NPC they're holding on to (really hope it's Nicolai so that I don't have to think about the Temple of the Snake)

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Re: MM6 skill emphasis mod

Unread postby RawSugar » 28 May 2022, 18:22

Raekul: I'd suggest you expand the model to look at both armor and resistance (or treat the bonuses to armor as if they were resistance). And that you look into the tradeoff of investing in these defensive skills vs maxing out an offensive skill. As i laid out reducing them will remove the validity of ranking them higher than master.

Bows: I arrive at 1/3 because thats the relation between fire bolt and spark (ranged vs melee). dealing ½ means archers essentially casting a ice bolt for free, an 8 mana, thats over the top in my estimation, at least if we make healing at temple super expensive. If mages can spend mana and instantly get it back for cheap then maybe it'd be ok - or if their 0 mana spells got a similar buff. Knights dealing ½ damage of archers with ranged really seems reasonable, they cant be super strong at both range and melee
An interesting realignment could actually be the 4-10 mana ranged direct spells getting a lower die but a high base damage, say fire bolt dealing 30 damage+1 pr level, and the 0 (at master) mana spells getting a 1-4 damage pr level. would make firebolt fairly strong up till rank 12 where the 0 mana would take over. Then knights could have a ranged attack dealing same level of damage and archers an attack dealing twice that.

sparks, yeah my preffered value would be 5 + 1-2 pr level, makes it deal ~56 damage at rank 4 and better damage than current scheme at rank 25

In vanilla you kill your first dragon in level ~25 or so if you have a paladin. Including day of proitection i had about 100 resist and 1 or 2 shield wearer at rank 10 (i reduced the bonus to 1%, but thats still ~10/20% less damage

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Re: MM6 skill emphasis mod

Unread postby raekuul » 28 May 2022, 22:38

The biggest danger of the dragons in Dragonsand is sheer numbers, yeah. You should be able to solo a single Red Dragon around the same time you can recover the Crystal of Terrax (the only real outlier on the promotion schedule is a Knight; you're supposed to clear Corlagon's Estate and the Temple of the Sun and the Temple of the Moon and Icewind Keep and Longfang Witherhide's nest at around the same time).

E: in skill-mod.lua, I'm testing the following changes (well, in theory anyway - since my official SkEm party doesn't actually have a knight I can't test the Knight numbers changes):

Code: Select all

classMeleeWeaponSkillDamageBonus[const.Class.Knight]=0 -- down from 2
classMeleeWeaponSkillDamageBonus[const.Class.Cavalier]=2 -- down from 3

monsterHitPointsMultiplier = 1.5 -- down from 2
monsterArmorClassMultiplier = 1.5 -- down from 2

extendedEngagementDistance = 0x1A00 -- down from 0x2C00; I expect 0x2000 to be the sweet spot for this
edit2: okay yeah the HP/AC change definitely skews the game too far back in favor of the player, but it also feels less bad. Probably because you're getting extra damage at novice rank where you weren't getting it in vanilla. I'll keep testing these changes to see how it feels once I get out of "All My Skills Are Novice Rank" - I expect it to skew less in my favor as the game progresses. Added the following changes:

Code: Select all

local recoveryBonusByMastery = {[const.Novice] = 0, [const.Expert] = 3, [const.Master] = 6, } -- down from 4/5/6
local damageBonusByMastery = {[const.Novice] = 0, [const.Expert] = 2, [const.Master] = 4, } -- down from 2/3/4
local weaponACBonusByMastery = {[const.Novice] = 0, [const.Expert] = 4, [const.Master] = 8, } -- down from 4/6/8
edit3: okay so monster damage probably should be scaled relative to monster level, I just got a new game TPK'd by the goblins on top of the NS Self Guild. Also apparently extendedEngagementDistance doesn't do what I thought it was doing? I'm actually getting more Green pulls than I was before.

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Re: MM6 skill emphasis mod

Unread postby Malekitsu » 29 May 2022, 00:18

local recoveryBonusByMastery = {[const.Novice] = 0, [const.Expert] = 3, [const.Master] = 6, } -- down from 4/5/6
local damageBonusByMastery = {[const.Novice] = 0, [const.Expert] = 2, [const.Master] = 4, } -- down from 2/3/4
local weaponACBonusByMastery = {[const.Novice] = 0, [const.Expert] = 4, [const.Master] = 8, } -- down from 4/6/8
As far as I understand that would make early game knight weaker.
Approved :D
My only concern is that this might cause 2h weapon still too strong early and dual wield garbage, can you confirm?
In that case nerfing knight bonus to 1-2-4 and 2h bonus to 1-2-3 instead of 3-3-3 (scaling with promotion maybe) might do the job.
Let me know if an excel damage spreadsheet would be helpful.
____

I was thinking, how about having loot to have a level requirement?
It could be cool to prevent abusing, allowing to make stronger late game items, and should be smarter than reworking all the shops and the chests.

The idea is to make it requiring skill level, depending on the loot level, having something like:
Loot level: 1,2,3,4,5,6 = Required skill 1,4,7,9,11,14
That will make the game having even more emphasis on the skills :P


Do you think it is possible to code this into the game?
Do you guys like the idea?
Last edited by Malekitsu on 29 May 2022, 01:35, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: MM6 skill emphasis mod

Unread postby raekuul » 29 May 2022, 00:42

2h weapons are still stronger, yeah, but I consider that a reasonable adjustment (though I'll poke around to see if I can bring them back to ground at novice rank). It gives Archer a weird offensive niche in the early game since they're the only offensive melee class who can't use a shield. I didn't actually check what my changes do to dual-wield; so far only my sorceror is dual-wielding, and that because I can't quite afford the sword skill right now (I don't have any spare skill points to force the skill recalc on my "offical" game, and I ran out of gold getting other weapon/armor skills on my new one). Though I say this with the fact that monster HP/AC/damage is still amplified compared to vanilla: my archer was the only one actually hitting the goblins on top of the NS self guild, let alone the only one killing them, thanks to having a single spear for her weapons.

for the 2h damage bonus: basing it on mastery like everything else isn't a bad idea. Compounding it with promotion bonus damage is just asking for trouble (since promotion bonuses are also per rank of skill, so tying it all together kind of makes the Champion promotion even more of a holy grail for melee than it already is), and in any case 2h weapon is still mechanically inferior to dual-wielding (at the very least, you can get better enchantment spread by dual-wielding or sord-and-bord compared to only using one weapon)

The main issue is that I can't actually tell what was done as part of SkEm in the first place, what was done to rebalance the monsters in light of SkEm (the stat multipliers are definitely in response to SkEm), and what was later changed in SkEm in response to rebalancing the monsters. I may just have to dig through the git history.

My main interest in the code is disentangling the Skill/Monster/Magic changes from each other so that I can run Randomized SkEm without having to deal with the "Vanilla routing won't work here" issues that all the monster changes add in (as it is now, SkEm greatly encourages running the dungeons/quests in a specific order, which goes against the premise of a Randomizer). In the matter of adding/modifying tech, you'll have to ask someone else.

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Re: MM6 skill emphasis mod

Unread postby Malekitsu » 29 May 2022, 01:08

so far only my sorceror is dual-wielding, and that because I can't quite afford the sword skill right now (I don't have any spare skill points to force the skill recalc on my "offical" game, and I ran out of gold getting other weapon/armor skills on my new one).
If your goal is just to test you could use a save editor.

The readme isn't updated to the latest version but should help you:
https://github.com/tnevolin/mm6-skill-e ... /Readme.md

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Re: MM6 skill emphasis mod

Unread postby raekuul » 29 May 2022, 01:41

so on the topic of pulling, I figured out why I'm having more trouble than I should be. I rely heavily on the minimap, and one of the advantages of doing so is that hostiles don't appear on the minimap until they've been pulled so you know when you're safe to keep moving forward.

The problem? The minimap is vertically asymmetrical (to add room for the time-of-day display), so when you're heading south-to-north you effectively get ambushed. Heading North-to-south, east-to-west, or west-to-east doesn't have this problem.

This is less an issue with SkEm and more just something I have to re-train myself on.

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Re: MM6 skill emphasis mod

Unread postby RawSugar » 29 May 2022, 05:27

Raekul: What exactly are you trying to achieve with the changes?
I think 1 of them is reducing monster damage and defensive skills - have you given any thought to the point about lower defensive skills making them not worth ranking after master? or the point about day of protection giving more pr skill than any of the defensive skill (and thats just 1 spell in a whole school)
Im not sure its possible but what about changing the resistance formula instead to make full damage less likely or even impossible at high level?

What relation are you trying to achieve of knight damage vs sparks? Given sparks deals 55/70 at rank 4 and ~300 at rank 25

I dont think there's an issue with monster hp/ac/defenses

try replacing this bit

-- multiply monster damage

monsterTxt.Attack1.DamageDiceCount = monsterTxt.Attack1.DamageDiceCount * monsterDamageMultiplier
monsterTxt.Attack1.DamageAdd = monsterTxt.Attack1.DamageAdd * monsterDamageMultiplier

monsterTxt.Attack2.DamageDiceCount = monsterTxt.Attack2.DamageDiceCount * monsterDamageMultiplier
monsterTxt.Attack2.DamageAdd = monsterTxt.Attack2.DamageAdd * monsterDamageMultiplier

with this:

-- multiply monster damage
local monsterLevel = Game.MonstersTxt[monsterTxtIndex].Level
monsterTxt.Attack1.DamageDiceSides = math.round(monsterTxt.Attack1.DamageDiceSides * ((monsterLevel+5)/20 +1))
monsterTxt.Attack1.DamageAdd = math.round(monsterTxt.Attack1.DamageAdd * ((monsterLevel+5)/20 +1))

monsterTxt.Attack2.DamageDiceCount = monsterTxt.Attack2.DamageDiceCount * monsterDamageMultiplier / monsterDamageMultiplier
monsterTxt.Attack2.DamageAdd = monsterTxt.Attack2.DamageAdd * monsterDamageMultiplier / monsterDamageMultiplier

[i dont know if local Mlvl is neccesary, and yes you can also remove the line for attack2 entirely. I set it to normal on the assumption that it is bonus damage/extra attack rather than replacing attack 1, not increasing it gives a smoother progression early on.. If you're worried about endgame difficulty rather than looking forward to the challenge use /30 instead of /20]

I like the idea of level requirement for items, but would prefer class level to not force players to rank skills to be able to use items. Its also something you can more or less selfimpose and would probably be difficult to code.

And agreed on the 2H damage, making bnus 1/2/3 should give a smoother damage progression

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Re: MM6 skill emphasis mod

Unread postby raekuul » 29 May 2022, 13:50

code tags please, my non-mono font is hard to read code with

I've got two sets of changes going on, one that'll be visible while playing (bringing the numbers back down for the early game) and one that won't (splitting skills/monsters/spells out into separate lua scripts, for better fine control when adding this to my local copy of the randomizer once it's "safe" to do so). For the amount of damage that the creatures in the early game are throwing around, they are far too tanky, but reducing their tankiness makes it blatantly obvious why they were amped up in the first place. Removing damage/recovery mods at novice rank/non-promoted class should bring the early game back into parity...

except I still got a new party TPK'd by the one cluster of goblins on top of the NS Self Guild, so the damage being dealt is still too high, but bringing the HP/AC down makes the rest of the very early game (read: level 5-ish) manageable (my 'official' team is working at clearing out overland CI right now in preparation for moving on to Free Haven; once you get skill points invested across the board it's not terribly bad with just the HP/AC changes, but I don't expect that to stay the case when I run out of freebies to work on), but with that said I've so far only been to CI and Mist and don't fully know what I'm about to walk into (I know intellectually that I'll be dealing with a bunch of projectiles that can only be dodged by using level geometry, but it's Free Haven so that's kind of a given)

tnevolin: did you modify low-level spells before or after giving low-level spells to a bunch of monsters who traditionally don't have ranged attacks? Because eating all these mind blast spells is starting to hurt.

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Re: MM6 skill emphasis mod

Unread postby RawSugar » 29 May 2022, 14:05

I feel like you're skipping the whole analysis portion of the process raekuul :) do you know what the problem is and how to fix it?
When you're both reducing player damage and monster toughness the effort seems a little...unfocused?

tnevolin
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Re: MM6 skill emphasis mod

Unread postby tnevolin » 29 May 2022, 14:38

ANNOUNCEMENT

Guys, you are so active I cannot keep up with you. Let me help you organizing it a little more.
  • I have created Slack workspace for everybody to communicate, share knowledge and ask quick questions about coding. Unfortunately, it is by invitation only. Whoever likes to join - send me your email in PM.
    I should be more responsive on Slack as it is on my phone too.
    It also allows threads and channels so should more structured.
  • This forum is still good for idea proposals, discussions, playtesting results, and general conversations that require more than one paragraph.
  • For confirmed bug reports, and well narrowed ideas and proposals those are ready to be implemented: please file an issue here: https://github.com/tnevolin/mm6-skill-e ... mod/issues. This serves as a backlog to not loose ideas in the forum thread. There could be discussion in the issues too but it is still good practice to discuss and round up an idea on a forum before to understand the more or less exact implementation. So that me (or whoever likes to fulfil it) may just pick it up and implement it without much additional thinking on their side.
RE: coding.

Whoever is interested in coding please install latest version of this mod on your machine if didn't yet. Then search for this file (skill-mod.lua) https://github.com/tnevolin/mm6-skill-e ... ll-mod.lua on your computer. I don't remember if it is installed in game directory or not. That is the whole mod.

Check that this is actually a file that game uses by adding this line at the very top:

Code: Select all

MessageBox("that is me")
This should popup when you start/load the game.

Then you can start edit the file and experiment in the game. If you are modifying existing code, copy-paste should work. Otherwise, check this for list of functions, structures, etc. https://grayface.github.io/mm/ext/ref/. Lastly, just ping me in Slack for questions!

Good luck.

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raekuul
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Re: MM6 skill emphasis mod

Unread postby raekuul » 29 May 2022, 14:46

I figured out part of why things are going pear-shaped, by the way.

tnevolin, to confirm a thing: should a simple Goblin be casting Fire Bolt at Novice 1 or Novice 2? Because as things are on the git they're casting at Novice 2, but your monster ranged attacks block only assigned them Novice 1.

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Last edited by raekuul on 29 May 2022, 14:50, edited 1 time in total.


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