MM7 Learning Master

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marco75
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MM7 Learning Master

Postby marco75 » Dec 7 2017, 14:06

I have a problem with my Wizard obtaining the Learning Master skill.

I have solved the Golem Quest and got my Sorcerer promoted to Wizard.

My Wizard is a Learning Expert.

I have travelled to Nighon.

I spent skill points to increase Learning skill to 7.

I use the nearby fountain to increase my Intellect to 76.

Now when I visit the Master of Learning in her home, despite fulfilling her requirements,
I cannot master Learning!

Is this a bug? Is there a way I can hack the savegame to get around it?

I am using Greyface Patch 2.0.

My savegame:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/i9m4dewpyuz8m ... e.mm7?dl=0
Don't forget to back up your own quiksave.mm7 if you check out my file!

Thanks in advance!

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Bandobras Took
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Re: MM7 Learning Master

Postby Bandobras Took » Dec 7 2017, 14:39

It doesn't count temporary boosts when checking the intellect requirement. Use Items (not considered a temporary boost)/Barrels/Black Potions to raise your intellect to the required number.
Far too many people speak their minds without first verifying the quality of their source material.

marco75
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Re: MM7 Learning Master

Postby marco75 » Dec 9 2017, 11:30

Thanks for the reply. I was not aware of that rule. So stat-boosting equippable items like armor and clothing count, but not boosts from fountains?
I assumed the devs placed the Intellect-boosting fountain near the Learning Master so you could fulfil the requirements easily.

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Bandobras Took
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Re: MM7 Learning Master

Postby Bandobras Took » Dec 9 2017, 17:14

If the requirement were easily fulfilled, there wouldn't be much point in having it in the first place. :)
Far too many people speak their minds without first verifying the quality of their source material.

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Anubis
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Re: MM7 Learning Master

Postby Anubis » Dec 10 2017, 3:13

Iirc, the learning master in Silver Cove (MM6) had an intellect fountain nearby which counted towards the requirement for learning skill. I dunno, I could be mistaken and I already had the requirement check. Speaking of which, I've often wondered if the bonus exp from learning is even worth it to warrant having an instructor/teacher for the entirety of the game.
Last edited by Anubis on Dec 10 2017, 3:14, edited 1 time in total.

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Bandobras Took
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Re: MM7 Learning Master

Postby Bandobras Took » Dec 10 2017, 3:18

Learning is essentially trading skill points to get HP and MP sooner.
Far too many people speak their minds without first verifying the quality of their source material.

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Phobos
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Re: MM7 Learning Master

Postby Phobos » Dec 10 2017, 15:47

I don't think either MM6 or MM7 (or MM8) considered the temporary bonuses when judging eligibility for Master level.

Anubis wrote:Iirc, the learning master in Silver Cove (MM6) had an intellect fountain nearby which counted towards the requirement for learning skill. I dunno, I could be mistaken and I already had the requirement check. Speaking of which, I've often wondered if the bonus exp from learning is even worth it to warrant having an instructor/teacher for the entirety of the game.


I took the time to make a spreadsheet of experience gains considering some hirelings, the Scholar's Cap a varying level of learning skill; here is a small Excel sheet with the results.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1h1hYQ ... NUESCtcp6I

To sum it up with an example, a Master Learner of level 7 followed by an Instructor and a Teacher and wearing a Scholar's Cap would have an effective learning skill of 7*3 + 9 + 15 + 10 + 15 = 70, resulting in 70% more experience gained compared to someone with no bonuses.

I've previously made a very rough analysis about whether investing in Learning skill is worthwhile. I looked up the post today and edited it a bit (there was some inaccuracy); it's on this forum if you're interested. Link:

https://www.celestialheavens.com/forum/ ... 22#p362422

As a conclusion, the skill points invested in Learning will be returned in the long run with extra HP and SP to boot. In a very optimal situation (so never, really), the earliest level where all the skill points are returned is around 40. But you won't be far behind in the thirties either and will have more HP and SP than those without Learning. It probably isn't a good idea to invest points beyond a character's maximum mastery level (so Master 8 is a waste of skill points).

Hirelings will provide a significant bonus to Learning, so personally, I would use them at least when going on major monster-killing sprees. At the beginning of the game, you might favour a Locksmith and a Scholar over a Teacher and an Instructor because their bonuses are very convenient, but towards the mid-game and end-game, a bigger portion of your experience will come from monsters. You will have developed Disarm Trap and ID Item by this stage, too. Other hirelings are also very useful, such as Gate Masters for a party of four Knights, so a lot of it is a matter of preference. I can't give you a definite answer on what hirelings to use, so just consider the numbers and convenience they provide and make your own choice :)

Bandobras Took wrote:Learning is essentially trading skill points to get HP and MP sooner.


Precisely!
Last edited by Phobos on Dec 10 2017, 16:09, edited 4 times in total.

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Anubis
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Re: MM7 Learning Master

Postby Anubis » Dec 22 2017, 12:14

Thanks for the spreadsheet. I appreciate you taking the time to do that. So, according to that spreadsheet, let's say I had 30 points in Learning and I was GM. If I had a scholar + teacher + cap, killing an Initiate of the Sword would give me 1445 exp?

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Phobos
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Re: MM7 Learning Master

Postby Phobos » Dec 22 2017, 13:40

^Yes, exactly. That would result in an effective skill level of 30*5 (GM) + 9 (extra bonus) + 5 (Scholar) + 10 (Teacher) + 15 (Cap) = 189, multiplying exp gains by 2,89. However, I don't think it is economical to invest beyond a level of 10 GM unless you really value experience, because the skill points probably won't be returned in the long run
Last edited by Phobos on Dec 22 2017, 13:41, edited 2 times in total.


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