Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine. [upd. 06.04.2019]

The role-playing games (I-X) that started it all and the various spin-offs (including Dark Messiah).

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby Xfing » Oct 7 2018, 11:20

I've created my proposal for the tiering of body armors when they all come to the game. It's much like my earlier file with the weapons. Here:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/smrpujkjatc0t ... .docx?dl=0

Please let me know if you like it! I might get around to making a similar file for gauntlets, helmets, boots, belts and cloaks soonish. Cloaks are going to be the toughest to sort out, since in the games they terminated at like 9 armor for the best one, but it's hard to make every one better than the last without going up to 15 armor for the very best one. My current idea is shifting the top armor value up to 12 and having several cloaks have the same armor value as others, but different vendor price. That should ensure enough variety between them. But for now please give me feedback about the body armors :D

Also, Rodril, please investigate the sword graphics changes someone made, that one really bothers me :(
Last edited by Xfing on Oct 7 2018, 11:41, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby Templayer » Oct 7 2018, 11:43

Xfing wrote:I've created my proposal for the tiering of body armors when they all come to the game. It's much like my earlier file with the weapons. Here:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/smrpujkjatc0t ... .docx?dl=0

Please let me know if you like it! I might get around to making a similar file for gauntlets, helmets, boots, belts and cloaks soonish. Cloaks are going to be the toughest to sort out, since in the games they terminated at like 9 armor for the best one, but it's hard to make every one better than the last without going up to 15 armor for the very best one. My current idea is shifting the top armor value up to 12 and having several cloaks have the same armor value as others, but different vendor price. That should ensure enough variety between them. But for now please give me feedback about the body armors :D


My opinion - I see no reason why the MM6 leather "armor" is better than the MM7 one, since it looks ... not even as an armor. Should be worse and since there is name duplicity, rename the MM6 one to Leather rags. :D
Actually the MM8 Leather Jerkin looks worse than the MM7 Leather armor, so switching them might be good. One is a jerkin and one is an actual piece of armor, so there is that.

Other than that I agree with your choices. Also you have currently an error there - the rusty chain mails have two MM8 ones and I think the MM7 one should actually be the MM6 one, because it makes no sense for the MM6 one to be with the description of that it is starting to corrode while it is a fully corroded version of the Steel Chain Mail from MM6.
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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby Xfing » Oct 7 2018, 12:22

Templayer wrote:My opinion - I see no reason why the MM6 leather "armor" is better than the MM7 one, since it looks ... not even as an armor. Should be worse and since there is name duplicity, rename the MM6 one to Leather rags. :D


I went with not just the looks, but also with the flavor text. The MM7 armor is described as being made of improperly cured leather and stink of chemicals, while the MM6 armor is described as "of average quality", though it does look paper thin and a bit weird. The leather jerkin from MM8 is definitely the best looking in terms of quality out of all of them.

Actually the MM8 Leather Jerkin looks worse than the MM7 Leather armor, so switching them might be good. One is a jerkin and one is an actual piece of armor, so there is that.


Disagree vehemently, also I don't think the nomenclature means much here. The leather jerkin neither looks nor is described to be of poor quality, it's just a soft leather armor with brass studs. The MM7 armor doesn't even have those.

Other than that I agree with your choices. Also you have currently an error there - the rusty chain mails have two MM8 ones and I think the MM7 one should actually be the MM6 one, because it makes no sense for the MM6 one to be with the description of that it is starting to corrode while it is a fully corroded version of the Steel Chain Mail from MM6.


Yeah, I'll fix the label, the third one from the bottom is the MM6 chainmail, definitely. Also, it's not a fully corroded version of the steel chainmail from MM6, because it itself is made of iron. It also is fully intact - you'll notice that the rusty mail vest is both visually fully corroded and mentioned in the flavor text to be basically a patchwork piece of armor fixed in many places. The MM7 armor looks non-corroded in color at least for the most part, but does have a hole in it alongside eaten-away parts at the armpits, waist and neck. The MM6 chainmail looks completely intact, with no missing parts, with the only thing suggesting corrosion being its color, so it still looks the best out of them all IMO.
Last edited by Xfing on Oct 7 2018, 12:24, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby Strobe » Oct 7 2018, 12:47

Xfing

Thanks for your work! It helps a lot. :)

Templayer

I don't want to look like a complete idiot, but i think its important. :down:

As a beginner like me, it would be great to have some text-tutorial like a "how-to-start" as a plus info besides the MM8 item modif video.
I mean, im inspecting the data folder, but i have no idea which program should i use and which lod files are the vanilla ones.

I've already tried MM7View to open lod files, and MMEditor, but there's a lot of lod files, the tables folder is also a mystery for me.
I don't know how to add an image to a lod file (and for which one i should add).
So, maybe a step-by-step illustration or just text info could be perfect.

This could help a lot of new people, whose just get started in modding. With this, and the video, there should be no problem after all.
I'd be really glad, if some explain the basics, and process of converting an item (for example).

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby Templayer » Oct 7 2018, 13:16

Xfing wrote:I went with not just the looks, but also with the flavor text. The MM7 armor is described as being made of improperly cured leather and stink of chemicals, while the MM6 armor is described as "of average quality", though it does look paper thin and a bit weird. The leather jerkin from MM8 is definitely the best looking in terms of quality out of all of them.


IF the flavour text goes against the actual looks of the item, I would prefer to take into consideration the visual looks before the flavour text.
Reason? Flavour text can easily be changed, whereas the look of the item cannot. So if there is a disrepancy between them, please use the visual look as a priority.
MMMerge Task Tracker (= Paint Tracker + Bug Tracker + Missing Features + Suggestions):
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Anybody can view or suggest edits.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby Templayer » Oct 7 2018, 13:29

Strobe wrote:Templayer
I don't want to look like a complete idiot, but i think its important. :down:

As a beginner like me, it would be great to have some text-tutorial like a "how-to-start" as a plus info besides the MM8 item modif video.
I mean, im inspecting the data folder, but i have no idea which program should i use and which lod files are the vanilla ones.

I've already tried MM7View to open lod files, and MMEditor, but there's a lot of lod files, the tables folder is also a mystery for me.
I don't know how to add an image to a lod file (and for which one i should add).
So, maybe a step-by-step illustration or just text info could be perfect.

This could help a lot of new people, whose just get started in modding. With this, and the video, there should be no problem after all.
I'd be really glad, if some explain the basics, and process of converting an item (for example).


No, it's fine. I do not know the exact ways of how to export / import, Rodril is the mod author, while Grayface does essentially engine hacks and other, very important modifications to the base game. :applause:
One of them (GrayFace I think) should be able to make a tutorial for people like you who wish to start repainting the armors. On how to export existing, edit them and put them back in / send them.

GRAYFACE TO THE RESCUE! It would be nice if that tutorial would appear in the first post, together with the tracker - RODRIL! THE DAY OF DESTINY IS AT HAND! HEED MY CALL!

Anyway, I do know that the game uses indexed color palletes, limiting coloring options somewhat. From my days of trying to make a blue dragon I remember than GIMP (and anything better) can load the indexed palletes when opening existing graphics from the game.

Also in an completely unrelated note - it would be great if this mod would serve as a base for another MM game. I.e. completely new locations / storyline / quests, and such. That would be so much better than MM10. :D
I always wanted to have more races, like the Lizardmen, Genies, Golems, Angels, Devils, Centaurs, ...there is even a friendly Ogre village in the same map as Balthasar's Lair is in, in MM8! So much lore, so much potential!
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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby Xfing » Oct 7 2018, 15:09

Templayer wrote:
Xfing wrote:I went with not just the looks, but also with the flavor text. The MM7 armor is described as being made of improperly cured leather and stink of chemicals, while the MM6 armor is described as "of average quality", though it does look paper thin and a bit weird. The leather jerkin from MM8 is definitely the best looking in terms of quality out of all of them.


IF the flavour text goes against the actual looks of the item, I would prefer to take into consideration the visual looks before the flavour text.
Reason? Flavour text can easily be changed, whereas the look of the item cannot. So if there is a disrepancy between them, please use the visual look as a priority.


Yeah, let's just wait for Rodril and see what he thinks.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby fortego » Oct 7 2018, 16:21

Does arcomage quest work in MM7? I get the list of all thirteen taverns, won everywhere (I excluded the tavern from the the list after i won), but can't finish the quest.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby Templayer » Oct 7 2018, 16:26

fortego wrote:Does arcomage quest work in MM7? I get the list of all thirteen taverns, won everywhere (I excluded the tavern from the the list after i won), but can't finish the quest.


Added to the bug tracker.
I remember someone here having the very same problem, but I do not remember why that was, or the solution.

Anyway, Rodril (or perhaps GrayFace) will be able to give you a console command to trigger the quest ending.
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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby Templayer » Oct 7 2018, 16:39

Just for Rodril - there is basically almost a whole page of reported bugs on the bug tracker. I'm going to put it here through code so that it doesn't spam the thread page with its height.

Code: Select all

Reported by Strobe:
- Heroic Sword (Two-Handed) right hand texture is buggy (which doesn't hold the sword)
- Hirelings don't take gold/percentage
- Travel with Stable to Tularean Forest is a bit too rare (it seemed more often in vanilla game imo)
- No wind and gate master hirelings (or maybe very-very rare)
- Citizens are not changing randomly through reloading the saved game, or travel (spending some time)
- Racial bonuses seem to be uncompleted
- About Arcomage deck: the player shouldn't get a deck before the mm7 quest, or as an alternative, it could be buyable in some inn's in all over the 3 continent
- Starting kit should be more randomized imo
- More accurate descriptions, mentioning all the classes in the stats (it only has the mm8 classes, bit confusing)
- Hirelings are too cheap to hire (all of them were only 200 gold, but im sure its just a placeholder value)

Reported by Mommyiamnotacow:
- I play Merge with challenge "dead is dead" when i dismiss killed party members. And at some point (treveling to next mm part) i got a bug, 80% peasants have broken inventory. Thay dont have base loot, and the main problem they cant handl the items. With empty inventiry the character says "inventory is full". How can i fix this? Is there a console script to generate hired peasant to test?
(I have a game with 30.09 update. The game was fully reinstalled with first start script compilied, not just patched.)

Reported by dominatorek1:
- I got bsod video scheduel internal error by playing mm8 and i cant still fix it i have up to date graphics card
everything is installed i dont know how to fix.
(editor's note and response: this sounds way more like a driver / card malfunction error, than a game error.
If you have another graphics card (I always have a backup, for the past 10 years, it seems), try switching it, if it continues, it wasn't the problem, if not, either there is something wrong with the driver, or the card itself is screwed. Also could very well be a RAM problem (especially if your graphics card doesn't have its own RAM, using system RAM instead). It could be anything at this point, try googling up the BSOD error and CHECK PC events (Control panel - Administrative Tools - Event Viewer, find the time the BSOD occured to see what was happening at that point))

Reported by fortego:
- I get the list of all thirteen taverns, won everywhere (I excluded the tavern from the the list after i won), but can't finish the quest. (MM7)

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby GrayFace » Oct 7 2018, 17:08

Templayer wrote:But I don't really remember anyone else having that problem, except for the early phases of this thread.

I also had problems with inventory population of hirelings - items overlapping each other:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/wnqt4w83ajv0t ... 0.png?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/z3hhp20g4gzm2 ... 1.png?dl=0
That's not the same, but possibly related.

Xfing wrote:I've created my proposal for the tiering of body armors when they all come to the game. It's much like my earlier file with the weapons. Here:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/smrpujkjatc0t ... .docx?dl=0

Why is the brown leather higher tier than dragon leather? It looks like it should be lower. I don't see any reason to bring all items from all games in, other than to reproduce the atmosphere. Like, making only MM6 items found in MM6 etc. Still an overkill I think. If it really turns out more items are needed for reasons of game balance, then adding armors from earlier games would be the thing.

If anyone wonders, here's how I made armors in GIMP:
  • Put an armor onto a screenshot from the game, set layer boundary to image size.
  • Use Warp Transform (W shortcut) - use NoHalo filter, set preview to low quality (don't remember the exact name). Do the job with it starting with very big brush size and going smaller for finer detals. Don't apply the transform yet!
  • Zoom out to 100%, hide all layers except the armor and make a screenshot. This will give you transformed armor with nearest-neighbor filter. Now switch to any other tool to apply the transform.
  • Paste the screenshot, using color selection tool cut the armor from it. Move the nearest-neighbor armor to match with the smoothly transformed one.
  • Create mask out of nearest-neighbor layer, invert it, switch to smoothly-transformed one and press Delete to remove semi-transparent border. Now place nearest-neighbor layer below the smoothly-transformed one and play around with transparency on smoothly-transformed one. Something like 60% usually look best.
  • Then do the problematic parts with similar transform routine and with pixel art if needed. I prefer Warp transform even when I just need to rotate an arm.

Strobe wrote:As a beginner like me, it would be great to have some text-tutorial like a "how-to-start" as a plus info besides the MM8 item modif video.
I mean, im inspecting the data folder, but i have no idea which program should i use and which lod files are the vanilla ones.

Start with MMArchive for LODs and TxtEdit for tables. Vanilla mm8 archives are bitmaps.lod, icons.lod etc. Archives from MM6 and MM7 (with renamed files in them compared to vanilla) are mm6.* and mm7.*. This surely is very small bit of information, so ask more once you look around a little.
Last edited by GrayFace on Oct 7 2018, 17:19, edited 6 times in total.
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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby Xfing » Oct 7 2018, 17:19

Well, we do have all the weapons in, so why not armors too? I realize it's tons of work, but maybe someone's willing :P

Also, I don't think those "Dragon Leathers" are actually made of legit dragon hide. The MM8 regnan leather always looked super elite and badass. The final decision is ofc up to Rodril, and we'll roll with that, obviously.

And yes, this is mostly for the atmosphere, though I don't necessarily think we should restrict MM6 apparel to Enroth, MM7's to Antagarich etc. Everything should be intermingled, hence why stratifying everything by tiers. Also, don't tell me you wouldn't like to play dress-up on the paperdolls with all the unbelievable variety of items you'll have if apparel from all 3 games is available.
Last edited by Xfing on Oct 7 2018, 17:26, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby GrayFace » Oct 7 2018, 17:21

Xfing wrote:Also, I don't think those "Dragon Leathers" are actually made of legit dragon hide. The MM8 regnan leather always looked super elite and badass.

They just look way cooler.
My patches: MM6 MM7 MM8. MMExtension. Tools. Also, I love Knytt Stories and Knytt Underground. I'm also known as sergroj.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby Xfing » Oct 7 2018, 17:27

GrayFace wrote:
Xfing wrote:Also, I don't think those "Dragon Leathers" are actually made of legit dragon hide. The MM8 regnan leather always looked super elite and badass.

They just look way cooler.


Fair enough, but they could probably use some lower body covering too. That was a really cool thing with many MM8 armors, especially leathers.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby Templayer » Oct 7 2018, 17:44

I agree that the armors should be intermingled no matter the continent. (perhaps only a little bit... a 50% more chance to get a MM6 armor in Enroth, but still possible to get in Erathia and Jadame, even if a bit uncommon on other continents - sounds like the right thing to do)

Too many armors, GrayFace? Please, do tell me how many for example plate armors does vanilla MM6 have? This is a merge. So the item pool should be merged as well. Skipping armors feels like missing the shot with this mod. Especially since there is so few of them to begin with! (I'm used to old timey cRPGs...)
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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby Xfing » Oct 7 2018, 17:46

Glad you support me on this one, Templayer! Wish I could help more with the repaints, but I'm afraid I'm utterly **** at this. Then again, I might attempt some easy ones without the need to create additional lower body coverings after I'm done with the numbers.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby Templayer » Oct 8 2018, 12:15

Fixed some formatting issues in the Tracker that were screwing up the Outline at the left.
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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby Rodril » Oct 8 2018, 12:34

Hello. Patch link have been updated. There is just one important fix, which should prevent destruction of mercenaries' inventories. If you currently have character with broken inventory, only way to repair him - through console.
1. Open his inventory screen.
2. Drop or move to other inventories items you need.
3. Execute code (ctrl+f1 to open, ctrl+enter to execute):

Code: Select all

Char = Party[Game.CurrentPlayer]
for i,v in Char.Inventory do
   Char.Inventory[i] = 0
end
for i,v in Char.EquippedItems do
   Char.EquippedItems[i] = 0
end
for i,v in Char.Items do
   v.Number = 0
end

Inventory will be cleared out of all items he had (i.e. corrupted ones), new items will be added correctly.

Speaking of racial skill.
Must say, I won't overhaul any existing class, I want to keep them as close to original games as possible, and it means I want to keep all their cheaty "features" as well, even if they considered as something what developers have not finished. But I like ideas mentioned above and want to make instruments, which would allow to easily implement these suggestions, if someone will try to rebalance classes in future. So there are two new things in today's update:
1. "Race skills.txt" table in "Data\Tables" folder. It works in similar way as "Class skills.txt", but takes in account player's race instead of class. Example: race - minotaur, class - druid, "Class skills.txt" is not changed, in "Race skills.txt" axe skill have been set to M for minotaur race.
Minotaur druid will be able to learn Axe up to Master level. At least some compensation, considering minotaur can not use boots and helms.
2. "Character portraits.txt" now allows to set different special attacks for melee and range distances. Dragons still have breath for both, but now it is possible to disable only melee. (I was surprised, dragons actually have different face animations for melee attacks).
I suggest to set expert meditation skill in "Race skills.txt" for any race that have SP-consuming abilities.

I've only briefly checked armor subtiers file. I think it is fine, thank you.
I get the list of all thirteen taverns, won everywhere (I excluded the tavern from the the list after i won), but can't finish the quest. (MM7)

Arcomage wins are mentioned in "Misc" section of autonotes now, compare your list with notes there, please. I'll recheck quest.

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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby Templayer » Oct 8 2018, 12:42

Xfing wrote:Glad you support me on this one, Templayer! Wish I could help more with the repaints, but I'm afraid I'm utterly **** at this. Then again, I might attempt some easy ones without the need to create additional lower body coverings after I'm done with the numbers.


You could start by giving me in-game pictures of currently repainted armours in-game, for all the paperdoll types (male, female, minotaur and troll) so that I could add them to the tracker.
I do not have the mod yet.

GrayFace wrote:Here's how you can do screenshots with any item: (after pressing Ctrl+F1 to open the console)

Code: Select all

evt[0].Add("Inventory", 2026)

Here 2026 is the item number. Converted armors are 1306,1307,1318,1335,2026,2027,2041,2042.



Rodril wrote:Speaking of racial skill.
Must say, I won't overhaul any existing class, I want to keep them as close to original games as possible, and it means I want to keep all their cheaty "features" as well, even if they considered as something what developers have not finished. But I like ideas mentioned above and want to make instruments, which would allow to easily implement these suggestions, if someone will try to rebalance classes in future. So there are two new things in today's update:
1. "Race skills.txt" table in "Data\Tables" folder. It works in similar way as "Class skills.txt", but takes in account player's race instead of class. Example: race - minotaur, class - druid, "Class skills.txt" is not changed, in "Race skills.txt" axe skill have been set to M for minotaur race.
Minotaur druid will be able to learn Axe up to Master level. At least some compensation, considering minotaur can not use boots and helms.
2. "Character portraits.txt" now allows to set different special attacks for melee and range distances. Dragons still have breath for both, but now it is possible to disable only melee. (I was surprised, dragons actually have different face animations for melee attacks).
I suggest to set expert meditation skill in "Race skills.txt" for any race that have SP-consuming abilities.


YAAAAAAAAAY!

Rodril wrote: Dragons still have breath for both, but now it is possible to disable only melee. (I was surprised, dragons actually have different face animations for melee attacks).


Almost as if they were supposed to have a melee attack.
It is not as if even the manual mentions their powerful claw and fang attack, right?
ARRGH. :D
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Re: Might and Magic 6, 7, 8 merge based on mm8 engine.

Postby Xfing » Oct 8 2018, 13:52

Well, setting all spellcasting races to have expert in meditation ignores the fact that Vampires don't get meditation at all for some reason! Maybe as a balancing feature compared to MM7's paladins...

Anyway, in the past I suggested to hit some classes with the nerfhammer, like Clerics were in MM8, cutting their repair item and merchant skills by one mastery level. Knights in MM8 still have leather up to Master for example, while in 8 they were down to expert - serviceable enough, but not to the point of specialization.

Speaking of repair - if I'm not mistaken, all top-tier items require 30 points in Repair to fix. That means a Master in repairing items with a level of 10 will be able to fix anything, rendering the GM skill useless. It's more of a fun-factor change, but I'd suggest raising the point requirement of the top quality items to 50, so that having a GM of repair item in the party is actually worthwhile and needed (otherwise you'd need a level 17 Master!). You could then rebalance downwards from there. What do you think?


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